K1 - Malak aboard the Leviathan. (spoilers!)

[Carlo El Sanchez]

How many of you have had so much frustration when you fight Malak for the first time in KOTOR aboard the Leviathan! all the times iv passed KOTOR, right in that fight when im about to kill Malak, stupid Bastila ruins everything...lol one time i had about 7 meds left and Malak had an inch of health left...if it's not for how the cutscene occurs and Bastila "helping you" Revan would have killed Malak on the spot.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

I've never really believed he was going to be killed there. I mean, when you go to the Leviathan, there's still one planet missing, you dont even know wht the Star Forge is nor its location.

 

Also, it wouldnt have a been a fitting end for him.

[Venom750]

Malak was so getting his ass kicked when bastila stuck her nose in and it always bugged me how carth kept saying bastila sacficed her self for us i was like do she hell

 

P:S isn't this in the wrong forum bit

[Sir Palamides]

I know that problem. it's like: Oh, You are in danger, u need help" but you are about to kill malak easily.

 

but, yeah, wrong forum bit

[Prime]

This is K1 discussion, not K3...

[Mister Chief]

I had problems the first time, but destroyed him on all of my other times. I suppose it wasn't bad because I knew what would happen.

[SilentScope001]

...if it's not for how the cutscene occurs and Bastila "helping you" Revan would have killed Malak on the spot.

 

Remember, you AREN'T supposed to kill him. Suspend judgment a little bit. Malak is much more powerful than you are. Why else were you stuck in Force Whrilwind a lot while Malak ran? So what if Malak had an inch of a life yet? He could still surivie, and continue to fight.

 

Still, makes me wonder if Bastila wanted to fall to the Dark Side.

[Arátoeldar]

Could a mod please change the title of the thread. Considering it is a giant spoiler.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I get pretty frustrated, but if I did kill Malak there, then there would be no game. I was playing K1 again last week, and I absolutely owned him. It took 1 flurry to make him run away, then on the second part of the fight, it took 2 flurries while he only hit me with 1 power attack the whole fight.

[Emperor Devon]

It was to preserve the plot, of course.

 

I myself would've liked a fight like when Kyle went up against Desann on Artus Prime. It's nice when the main character gets his @ss kicked for a change.

 

There's not much of a contest, either. Revan has had a few weeks of training from the Jedi and has adventured across three planets. Malak, on the other hand, has been trained how to kill things since he was in diapers, has been living on a battlefield for roughly a decade, has been leading a war (most likely hands-on) for several years, and is being empowered by an ancient dark side superweapon. He remembers all of it, to boot.

 

Contrary to fanboy belief, Revan is not capable of kicking everyone's @$$.

[Carlo El Sanchez]

Could a mod please change the title of the thread. Considering it is a giant spoiler.

Sorry i put this thread in the wrong forum accidently...and yes i added (possible spoilers) for some people that may not have passed KOTOR yet, even though im sure most of us have.

[SilentScope001]

There's not much of a contest, either. Revan has had a few weeks of training from the Jedi and has adventured across three planets. Malak, on the other hand, has been trained how to kill things since he was in diapers, has been living on a battlefield for roughly a decade, has been leading a war (most likely hands-on) for several years, and is being empowered by an ancient dark side superweapon. He remembers all of it, to boot.

 

Then how come two more planet travelled, and boom, Malak's begging for your mercy and a quick and painless death?

 

I hate Revan fanboyism, but well, I don't know. I'll just assume Revan got lucky with the second match, recovering fully his memory and his powers.

[Emperor Devon]

Then how come two more planet travelled, and boom, Malak's begging for your mercy and a quick and painless death?

 

After realizing his identity, I don't think Revan would stay the same. While I doubt he recovered any memories, his old powers no doubt slowly returned - it was probably happening anyway. I can't see how a barely-trained Padawan would be able to exchange a good number of blows without being eviscerated against a Dark Lord of the Sith, at any rate. Given how Revan's actual memories return later, the mind-wipe the Council performed didn't seem to be very permanent at any rate.

 

And after realizing his identity and getting a good pwning, any person his instance would try to push themselves to be stronger - it's rooted in human nature to try and improve at something upon failing at it. Combined with whatever mysterious effects would emerge from him knowing his identity and Malak's underestimation of him, it's quite probable he'd win the duel. Not to say it would be asy, though; outside of the gameplay, killing Malak was no doubt an extraordinarily difficult task for Revan to accomplish.

[Vaelastraz]

Yeah I think that too. Revan's duel against Malak (empowered by the starforge, strengthened by his jedi prisoners, + his natural strength in the force) is definitly his most intense duel ever...

 

And the battle on the Leviathan, well Malak is supposed to kick your ass there. And he does. He locks Revan in a stasis field. He could have gone up to him and sliced his head off, if it wasn't for Bastila's interruption.

 

It's just that the game is far too easy. Malak didn't survive more than one combat round before those those cutscenes were triggered against my PC on the leviathan..

[JediMaster12]

You keep forgetting that it was not a memory wipe. They didn't restore Revan's true identity. The mind was damaged. They created an identity. Mind wipe implies that they stripped away everything. The council didn't do that. Though that could be construed into point of view.

 

As to the whole Leviathan thing. I am not going to argue. The KOTOR gods made it that way so I am content with what it is. The game has one function: entertainment as far as I can see.

[Allronix]

I blame game mechanics. If the fight went like it was "supposed" to, it would render it unwinnable. Whole party goes down and game over. Our PC was supposed to get his/her rear end handed to her, or at least a fight to the draw before Malak pulls a dirty trick.

[stoffe]

And the battle on the Leviathan, well Malak is supposed to kick your ass there. And he does. He locks Revan in a stasis field. He could have gone up to him and sliced his head off, if it wasn't for Bastila's interruption.

 

The whole Stasis Field thing was a horribly overdone plot device in KotOR, in my opinion. It strains credibility too much that Darth Malak (a Sith Lord/Guardian) could use Stasis Field (high level LIGHT SIDE power) to incapacitate a Jedi Sentinel (who's immune to paralysis/stasis) bypassing both Force Resistance and saving throws.

 

If they wanted to demonstrate that Malak was too powerful they could have done that scene differently in a much more believable way.

 

And just like there is "Revan worship" going on, so is there a certain amount of "Malak worship" where his abilities and power are vastly overrated. Bastila does this all the time in the game. She apparently had no qualms about facing Darth Revan, Malak's master and the one ultimately responsible for their current predicament, but cowers at the mere thought of running into Darth Malak.

[Q]

It strains credibility too much that Darth Malak (a Sith Lord/Guardian) could use Stasis Field (high level LIGHT SIDE power) to incapacitate a Jedi Sentinel (who's immune to paralysis/stasis) bypassing both Force Resistance and saving throws.

I thought that the immunity that Sentinels possessed worked only against the Fear/Horror/Insanity powers. I have often been able to put Bastila and other Sentinals in Stasis in the game, but I've never been able to use Insanity with any success against them. They just show the Insanity effects around their heads and keep on fighting.

 

As for Malak knowing Stasis Field, I just figured that he had learned it while he was still a Jedi. It may be just a type of "end-user retconning," but it always made sense to me.

[Vaelastraz]

From a game mechanic point of view you're right stoffe.

 

I i like to think, that really powerful experienced force users, can still break through mental barriers. They overpower the will of the less experienced, less will strong, and lock them in a stasis field for example..

 

Anyway, I didn't like the cutscene either... Malak should have knocked Revan's saber out of his hands in a neatly done cutscene (similar to the one "Revan's death)

[Emperor Devon]

They created an identity. Mind wipe implies that they stripped away everything. The council didn't do that. Though that could be construed into point of view.

 

Dunno about that. It's mentioned in TSL that Revan's memories started returning, and by all accounts, there wasn't much of a way for Bastila to tell.

 

If they wanted to demonstrate that Malak was too powerful they could have done that scene differently in a much more believable way.

 

Other than having him Force choke Revan, there wasn't much of a way to do it. Games with turn-based combat can make cutscenes involving fights look very awkward.

 

And just like there is "Revan worship" going on, so is there a certain amount of "Malak worship" where his abilities and power are vastly overrated. Bastila does this all the time in the game. She apparently had no qualms about facing Darth Revan, Malak's master and the one ultimately responsible for their current predicament, but cowers at the mere thought of running into Darth Malak.

 

Malak's quite powerful compared to most people, though he's by no means invincible. Several squads of troops would be more than sufficient to kill him.

 

For the sake of the plot, I guess. When Bastila ambushed Revan, she had superior numbers and the element of surprise on her side. And with being a few years younger, it's not surprising she'd be so cocky.

[stoffe]

I i like to think, that really powerful experienced force users, can still break through mental barriers. They overpower the will of the less experienced, less will strong, and lock them in a stasis field for example..

 

Perhaps, but Malak's strength isn't in the force. He's a Guardian, reknowned for being a very fierce lightsaber combatant, not for his mastery over the Force. And somehow I doubt becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith makes you stronger in using the Light Side aspects of the force.

 

And if he could, you'd have to wonder why he didn't use his Super Stasis power when facing Revan at the Star Forge later.

 

Other than having him Force choke Revan, there wasn't much of a way to do it. Games with turn-based combat can make cutscenes involving fights look very awkward.

 

If there's no way to pull off the scene without breaking the rules of the game world, then perhaps it would have been better to handle the Revelation scene differently? As it currently stands the whole scene just isn't very believable due to a variety of reasons, in my opinion (the liberal application of the Force Plot Device power, Malak's uncharacteristically poor saber combat proficiency, the way Bastila gets captured, that Revan was even able to escape under those circumstances).

 

For the sake of the plot, I guess. When Bastila ambushed Revan, she had superior numbers and the element of surprise on her side. And with being a few years younger, it's not surprising she'd be so cocky.

 

Just seems like a pretty sharp contrast when a level 1 or 2 Jedi faces down a level 20 Sith Lord, confidently saying "you can't win, Revan" without showing any sign of fear or doubt, while greatly fearing to face the apprentice later, when she herself has become more powerful and experienced. Darth Revan was by all accounts more powerful than Malak (hence the "backstab"), yet Bastila seems to fear Malak more for some reason.

[Vaelastraz]

Perhaps, but Malak's strength isn't in the force. He's a Guardian, reknowned for being a very fierce lightsaber combatant, not for his mastery over the Force. And somehow I doubt becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith makes you stronger in using the Light Side aspects of the force.

 

And if he could, you'd have to wonder why he didn't use his Super Stasis power when facing Revan at the Star Forge later.

 

 

I think Malak is very strong in the force. The jedi classes are just to have the typical RPG classes...

Or, if you listen to Dorak, they define your character. However, when you hear people talk about Malak then he was "such a promising powerful student", just like Revan was.

Perhaps Malak isn't a "master" in the force, like kreia is one, with a vast knowledge, but he definitly has a lot of raw willpower and strength in the force. Which in my opinion enables him to use mighty force powers.

 

And why he didn't use his stasis field later on? At that time, Revan's abilities in the force were stronger... his willpower higher, he was more experienced and so he could resist.

[stoffe]

I think Malak is very strong in the force. The jedi classes are just to have the typical RPG classes...

Or, if you listen to Dorak, they define your character. However, when you hear people talk about Malak then he was "such a promising powerful student", just like Revan was.

 

Yes, but he manifests that strength into supreme skill in lightsaber combat, not more mental applications and manipulations of the force. The repetoire of "real" force powers he uses isn't really that big when you fight him. Malak was a very powerful warrior, true, but at his core he is a thug, which is clearly manifested in how he rearranges the Sith organization after he takes over, and in the decisions he makes. Brute force rather than finesse.

 

And why he didn't use his stasis field later on? At that time, Revan's abilities in the force were stronger... his willpower higher, he was more experienced and so he could resist.

 

That's what saving throws represent in the game mechanics. What's the point of having a game system with a set of rules and ways things work if they are disregarded at will?

 

A bit odd they even decided to make darksiders use some utterly irresistible version of a lightside power when they could just have used whirlwind which you can't be immune against and which is a neutral power. And if Malak had been the same level as he was on the Starforge you wouldn't have had much of a chance to succeed in your save against it either. Even Darth Bandon was more powerful than the Malak variant you encounter on the Leviathan.

[Emperor Devon]

If there's no way to pull off the scene without breaking the rules of the game world, then perhaps it would have been better to handle the Revelation scene differently?

 

With what, exactly?

 

As it currently stands the whole scene just isn't very believable due to a variety of reasons, in my opinion (the liberal application of the Force Plot Device power, Malak's uncharacteristically poor saber combat proficiency, the way Bastila gets captured, that Revan was even able to escape under those circumstances).

 

Force Plot Device is fairly believable under those circumstances. I don't think Revan was as strong as Malak was yet, hence his inability to resist being frozen/tossed in the air. His weakness in actual combat is just a gameplay element, which doesn't count for much. Look at how all characters can open doors without their hands.

 

The Bastila part was a bit odd. I'm surprised Malak wasted time in a lightsaber duel when Force Plot Device would've done the job quicker (and wouldn't damage her as much as a duel could).

 

Just seems like a pretty sharp contrast when a level 1 or 2 Jedi faces down a level 20 Sith Lord, confidently saying "you can't win, Revan" without showing any sign of fear or doubt, while greatly fearing to face the apprentice later, when she herself has become more powerful and experienced.

 

Another instance of the Jedi's strange history of thinking that numbers can win the day.

 

Perhaps there were other Jedi who would have arrived soon? This probably sounds like guessing on my part, but unless the Jedi had a desire to sabotage the Republic's war effort, I can't guess as to why they'd send Bastila to face Revan over a group of more experienced Masters.

 

Darth Revan was by all accounts more powerful than Malak (hence the "backstab"), yet Bastila seems to fear Malak more for some reason.

 

Whether a pre-KotOR Revan is stronger than a mid-KotOR Malak is an interesting thing to consider.

[Henz]

Never understood why the game didn't just make YOU loose. As in: You can't win. You get your cute little fuzzy puppy taken away and fall down. Cut scene involving Bastilla doing her hero thing and you getting dragged away by other party members.

 

(LOL that alteration doesn't even make sense...)