Lucasforum mods' hypocrisy proven!

[El Sitherino]

it was their job to remove the Joke/Tease statments from a heated debate. Whether or not it was found offensive by them. It was apprent that Phile found it offensive.

Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed. But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.

 

I did what Niner did.

No you didn't, you quoted his post (in another thread) and did so in a taunting fashion. If this wasn't your intent, then you need to learn how to phrase things better. Your post was deleted because it clearly served no purpose, the on-topic discussion was easily seen as tacked on to make yourself appear innocent.

[Emperor Devon]

I found the comment about "nerd rage" to be inflamatory and condescending content.

 

If you've not noticed, it's common practice here for people to call each other geeks/nerds/clinically insane. If you can't handle the everyday teasing that goes on you need to grow a thicker skin, but starting threads like this expecting people to change their behavior to accommodate you is childish and self-centered.

 

How many people must find a term objectionable, before you delete the post? 2? 5? 10? 50?

 

More than only you would be my first guess.

 

Given the horrid standard of moderating I've experienced on these boards, I'm beyond the point where I care whether I'm banned or not.

 

Why are you still here?

 

1. Ban me from these boards. If you do, I'll naturally stop posting, and people will know what hypocritical bigots you people are.

 

Double standards anyone?

 

Seeing you hold yourself to the same standard you're insulting people for having amuses me.

 

They have that choice, because I will allow none other and continue to repost this message to as many mods/admins and relevant topics as I feel is reasonable until something happens.

 

Good grief, you can almost smell the pharisaism in these posts. Spam the forums until people do as you say? If you're that much a hypocrite I'm sorry to have wasted the minutes of my life it took to write this out.

 

I guess I just spoke above my caste, then...

 

Silence, Dalit!

[Darth333]

Ah, now you put your foot in it. You know full well that I posted to several PMs to both Darth333 and tk102 on this very matter.

 

In short, you're just plain wrong. I DID use the PM system. That especially Darth333 preferred to just ignore me is a big part of the problem here. And yes, those PMs can be produced to prove this.

I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting. Your response to my PM was to the effect that you had a very low opinion of me. Since I am so worthless in your opinion and even if I had prepared a very polite answer to your response, I didn't send it as I thought that it was pointless to even try to further discuss the situation with you based on what you wrote to me and what you had previously sent to other mods in the past. Next time you want a follow up on your PMs, lay off the personal insults.

 

Also, there's a whole difference between "nerd", "nazi" and "bigot". Feel free to discuss a decision with the mods if you wish but I will ask you to remain polite and to stop making gratuitous insults in your PMs and posts. Even if they did not necessarily agreed with you in the past, nowhere the mods have called you such names. There is no need to resort to that kind of language.

 

 

edit: if you are talking about the PM you sent me today, you had already posted the present thread ( which is a copy of what was in my mailbox ) when I saw the PM.

[Rogue Nine]

You did, so why can't I? It didn't violate the forum rules, after all.

 

Ah, because you're a mod? Well, double standard...

In the original thread, I posted following tk's warning to everyone (you and LIAYD) to cool down. My post was intended to be on topic, with a bit of mirth thrown in in hopes that the two of you would take a step back and cool your jets. You obviously did not take see it that way, choosing instead to see it as an insult. You were told that it was a joke and that you should just leave it be. I imagine this did not sit well with you.

 

In light of these circumstances, it is hard to believe that you quoted my exact phrase with the intent of finding it funny. It's very clear to me that you intended to taunt me by doing so, given our past history and your obvious dislike of me.

 

But just trying to silenty kill me by quietly deleting my posts will only prompt me to fill my mailboxes with angry PMs and post topics like this one.

No one is trying to 'kill' you, only moderate your offending posts.

 

You may not believe this, but I think you to be a very erudite and well-spoken contributer to these forums; that is, when you're not going off on diatribes about how the mods are out to get you. If you would just contribute and not take everything so sensitively, I imagine we'd get along just fine.

 

Actually, that was a yes/no question. Do you have an aversion to simply answering yes or no?

No, it is not a police state and no I have no aversion to simply answering yes or no.

 

I had a whole big sentence by sentence refutation thing going, but I decided to cut out most of them, save for the most relevant ones I've left above. Jediphile, let me make this as clear as possible. As I said above, I believe you to be an intelligent and well-spoken contributer to the forums. You offer well-reasoned and insightful commentary to many different Star Wars topics. This is a very good thing. The other mods (RedHawke in particular, if you can believe it) can attest to my believing that.

 

Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you. I know this goes back further than even your involvement with me, as you've had a few tussles with the SWK staff before, over pretty much the same concepts. Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.

 

Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations. In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.

 

We can continue to go back and forth ad nauseam, but that wouldn't get us much of anything save for more anger and frustration and other unwanted nastiness. I'm more than willing to meet you halfway to put our argument to rest. Are you?*

 

 

 

 

*If you are, please consider extending the same courtesy to tk and D3 and the rest of the staff. Like I said, they are not all out to get you and I believe they would much rather have you around as a contributing member of our forums.

[JoeDoe 2.0]

Well, just to drop my two cents in...

 

Jediphile : It's clear that what Rogue Nine said was a joke, I know that some of us can't stomach joke but come on he just said N E R D R A G E! Being a N E R D is not bad at all, it's just a word meant for people that know even the most intimate details about something, and it was meant without malice, so no harm done there, unless you interpret it VERY differently.

 

If you think you can no longer fit in here then maybe you should retreat to another forum as you yourself said, maybe take a break and come back.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

This thread should be stickied and a copy placed in some sort of archive so that future generations my stand in awe of it.

[JediMasterJambi]

Alright, alright. Let me pose a question to El Sitherino, Darth333, ED.

 

What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.

Jediphile would have been statisfied.

No one would have lost any face. (Because this is apprent that is what this is all about now.)

The comment was complained about, just 1 complaint or not. And look what has happened because no action was taken?

All this commotion was stirred up.

The 4 I mentioned above all believe the comment stated as a joke. And so what if it was? Jokes can be found VERY offensive at times. At certain times its also VERY inconsiderate, and inappropriate to make a joke.

Just because it was a joke dosen't mean everyone found it funny.

Consider your opinons not to be absolute.

Consider Jediphile actually took the joke as offensive.

 

Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed. But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.

Thats your mere opinon. Not fact. Nerd Rage -1? I won't even point out the issue with that statement. Beside the fact that your a Moderator, and you should know better.

 

 

 

Nine, I like your stance on things here. The man is looking to settle the argument with compromise, not just add wood to the flames. I agree with the comment you made above 101%, full support.

[Emperor Devon]

What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

 

Given his dislike of the staff, Jediphile would likely have found some other post to take issue with and demand the removal of. I think it was really a sooner or later occurrence.

 

No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.Jediphile would have been statisfied.

 

You know, this post of yours really offends me. It would make me satisfied if it was removed. I am going to scream and shout and stamp my feet until you remove it. I don't care that it's fairly normal for this thread, it offends ME and I want it GONE! It's not like deleting it will cause a big deal, so why not?

 

Point in case? It isn't your proviso to make me feel satisfied with your posts. If I don't like the content I can see if more people than me feel the same way (at which point it goes from me thinking my opinion should dictate how people act to a legitimate cause for concern the forums have), add you to my ignore list, or just suck it up and not demand you change your posting style to make me feel better. The same goes for these forums at large. They have no obligation to make anyone who posts here happy. If you like them you can stay, if you don't like them then you should leave. One person is not reason for dozens more to change their behaviors. Simple as that.

 

The comment was complained about, just 1 complaint or not. And look what has happened because no action was taken?

 

If a child throws an inordinate tantrum should you reward it with candy to make it be quiet?

 

Jokes can be found VERY offensive at times. At certain times its also VERY inconsiderate, and inappropriate to make a joke.

 

Nerd rage. Nerd rage. This is a Star Wars forum. You should expect nerd rage in excess and not throw a fit when it gets pointed out. If you take issue with such an unobtrusive comment, frankly you need to shape up or ship out - the forums as they are obviously aren't for you.

 

Consider your opinons not to be absolute.

 

Neither are yours. That the majority of posters in this thread disagree with them should make that all the more pertinent.

[JediMasterJambi]

Given his dislike of the staff, Jediphile would likely have found some other post to take issue with and demand the removal of. I think it was really a sooner or later occurrence.

ED, please, your personal opinon shows here of what you think of JediPhile. And thus why you entered your 2 cents into the thread in the first place. Its obvious from that statement you don't like his attitude much.

 

Point in case? It isn't your proviso to make me feel satisfied with your posts. If I don't like the content I can see if more people than me feel the same way (at which point it goes from me thinking my opinion should dictate how people act to a legitimate cause for concern the forums have), add you to my ignore list, or just suck it up and not demand you change your posting style to make me feel better. The same goes for these forums at large. They have no obligation to make anyone who posts here happy. If you like them you can stay, if you don't like them then you should leave. One person is not reason for dozens more to change their behaviors. Simple as that.

 

Why? Why shouldn't I try to make you as satisfied as possible with my ideas and you vice-versa? I think more understanding in this world would be a good thing.

Very negative thinking there ED. Like it or leave, huh? I won't say anymore than that on your opinon there.

Really? My friend, look at the history of the entire world. One person can definatley be a reason for dozens more to change their behaviors.

 

 

If a child throws an inordinate tantrum should you reward it with candy to make it be quiet?

Why does a child throw a inordinate tantrum in the first place? Because its pissed off. Mabye it deserves some candy.

 

 

Neither are yours. That the majority of posters in this thread disagree with it should make that all the more pertinent.

Are you making an implication I SAID my opinon WAS fact? Because I didn't. I'm begining to think the majority of the posts in this thread are people who just plain dislike Jediphile's attitude, and are merley here to add wood to the flames in which to burn him.

[Emperor Devon]

ED, please, your personal opinon shows here of what you think of JediPhile.

 

Don't make judgments based solely on the content of one thread. Normally I hold a great deal of respect for Jediphile; as Rogue Nine pointed out he can make some very contributive and interesting to read posts when he's in the mood. (Predicting in advance Avellone's intended origins of Nihilus is the first thing that comes to mind.) And that's also why I'm particularly disappointed at the content of this thread.

 

Why? Why shouldn't I try to make you as satisfied as possible with my ideas and you visa-versa?

 

Because I don't join forums like this with the intent of making people happy. I join them for my own satisfaction. If said mood can spread the same satisfaction to other people, that's all the better and I'm not unhappy for it; but I've joined this place so I can enjoy myself first and foremost. If that enjoyment comes at other people's expense that's what makes me a troll, but as it stands I have no reason to cater to the satisfaction of one person who has similar expectations from other people who simply want to enjoy themselves as I do.

 

(Damn, I should really go capitalist.)

 

Very negative thinking there ED. Like it or leave, huh?

 

More people prefer the forums as they currently are than as something different. So yeah, those look to be the only valid options. (I suppose there always is starting threads on how unfair it all is...)

 

One person can definatley be a reason for dozens more to change their behaviors.

 

As far as I'm aware Jediphile isn't trying to kick the British out of India or end discrimination in the South, though the best of luck to him if he is. Historical figures with integrity are impertinent to one person taking issues with a forum whose populace happens to disagree with his opinions.

 

Mabye it deserves some candy.

 

Not for holding itself to the same standard it's throwing a tantrum over other people having it doesn't.

 

Are you making an implication I SAID my opinon WAS fact?

 

Not if you're holding yourself to the same mindset you want of me.

 

I'm begining to think the majority of the posts in this thread are people who just plain dislike Jediphile's attitude,

 

You're right. They are.

[tk102]

What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

No one would have complained. I wouldn't have been a big deal at all, infact.

Jediphile would have been statisfied.

 

Just wanted to mention JMB, if you the information you had on Sephira was shared with us earlier, the situation that occurred in the Republic Newsfeed would have been resolved more cleanly and this thread would likely not have been started.

 

Edit: I should add that we appreciated getting the information, and upon re-reading of this, I can see the tone may have come across snippity which was not my intent.

[The Source]

All right folks, before this thread completely degenerates out of control, remember that the forum rules apply to this thread as they do others. Name-calling (hypocrites, wolves, etc.) is flaming, so don't name-call, and keep the sarcasm under control. Either post according to the rules, don't post, or experience the consequences of posting in a way that breaks the rules.

Oh god! I called someone a wolf. When did moderators loose their thick skin? Its like the moderators have become either to dominating, or the 'rules' that LucasForums.com uses as a guideline does not apply to them, or they have become so wimpy that they have to jump onto every post.

 

What in the name of the Force has happened? I don't remember having these issues when Chainz, RedHawke, or T7 were around on a daily basis.

 

Its like the new generation, some older, of moderators have become sinicle. What is wrong with you people?

 

Look at this thread. Not a single moderator has come in to accept responsibility, or disagreed with the other moderators, or anything. Its like a cult.

 

When have you seen a thread where a moderater has done something wrong, and another moderater has come in to disagree? "PUBLICLY"

 

We need a self-esteem and moral shot.

 

TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon - What is your problem? People are getting into trouble because of posts that you have originally created. Grow some tolerance, show some responsibility, and grow up. Admit when you did something wrong, so we can get this place back to normality. You all have sins to resolve. Now is the time.

 

If we can admit our faults, the moderators can admit their faults.

 

Damit! LucasForums.com use to be a fun place. What the hell went wrong!?

 

Well, just to drop my two cents in...

 

Jediphile : ...unless you interpret it VERY differently.

 

If you think you can no longer fit in here then maybe you should retreat to another forum as you yourself said, maybe take a break and come back.

What! Everyone is welcomed here. He has a right to his perspective. Even though his perspective of the events are different than yours, that does not mean that his views are wrong.

 

Visitors should not be owning the problems that belong to the moderators.

[tk102]

TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon...Admit when you did something wrong

If you're going to cite me for something, I'll need more to go on.

 

Thread split: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=184333

[Darth333]

Alright, alright. Let me pose a question to El Sitherino, Darth333, ED.

What if the Nerd Rage comment HAD been removed?

No one else found that post insulting. Even other members who posted in the thread (Sicne the posts were rather lenghty and off-topic they have been deleted to bring the Bioware/LA thread back on topic) agreed with that. Also, you may see only these posts about the "nerd rage" but there is history behind.

 

In short, while we have sometimes accomodated Jediphile in the past, it is never enough. Unfortunately, we can't start micro managing the boards according to everyone's whim and sensitivity. Not only it becomes awfully suggestive but if we do it for Jediphile we should do it for others as well and if we were to delete threads, posts and commment everytime someone feels offended, we would be deleting a lot of threads and posts (and likely all the religion threads as some people complain that they find them offensive). As I said above, everything is potentially offensive to someone. I don't count the times where people call each other "nerd" on these boards and it is a generally accepted practice by the community (it's a SW and gaming forum after all!).

 

That being said, if we think a request to delete or edit is justified according to the forum rules and not a simple whim, we will comply with it, and that applies to Jediphile just as everyone else. When the Source says "grow some tolerance" it should apply to everyone, not only to the staff.

 

Also, notwithstanding the above, we tend to be more collaborative when members make their requests in a civil manner instead of sending PMs full of insults (that would have earned a ban if they were made to any other non staff member but we went over that and took the time to answer politely) even before they make their requests (and I am not only talking about the current issue).

 

Finally, the mods are opened to compromise. We are all humans and can make mistakes sometimes, just as anyone else. In fact, we do discuss and review decisions regularly and reverse them when we deem it appropriate. When a member sends us a PM or reports a post, things are investigated and actions are taken when we deem that the forums rules have been broken. However, as mentioned above, we can't comply with every request and moderate the boards to please everyone.

[Rogue Nine]

Oh god! I called someone a wolf. When did moderators loose their thick skin?

We have fur, thanks. Woof woof.

 

Look at this thread. Not a single moderator has come in to accept responsibility, or disagreed with the other moderators, or anything. Its like a cult.

We work out our disagreements in private. This thread deals with grievances a forum member has and as such, disagreements between moderators is immaterial to the discussion.

 

When have you seen a thread where a moderater has done something wrong, and another moderater has come in to disagree? "PUBLICLY"

See above. Again, I do not understand why you have cause to be concerned with what happens between moderators.

 

TK102, Rouge Nine, and Devon - What is your problem? People are getting into trouble because of posts that you have originally created. Grow some tolerance, show some responsibility, and grow up. Admit when you did something wrong, so we can get this place back to normality. You all have sins to resolve. Now is the time.

Firstly, you misspelled my name yet again. Please realize my name is 'Rogue', coming from the X-wing series of comics and novels of the same name. It is not 'rouge', because that refers either to the French word for 'red' or the make-up product that women wear. I spell your name correctly, all I ask is for the same courtesy in return.

 

Secondly, I have offered to compromise with Jediphile. I have admitted that I am often blunt and sarcastic, traits I am not exactly proud of. I am doing this in order to promote peace, rather than let this go on ad nauseum.

 

Thirdly, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.'

 

Thanks for your input.

[Darth InSidious]

I've been around the internet a few times, and been on both sides of moderation, inside and outside of heated debates.

 

What I'll say is that what favouritism/elitism there is here - and it's impossible to completely rip it out, mods/admins are human, after all - is, for the most part, pretty minimal. Most moderation is quick, effective, and fairly neutral here, and that is the most you can ask.

 

Just my tuppence ha'penny.

 

EDIT: I just thought I'd add that when the chips are eaten, it's just a forum. You have to emotionally detach yourself at some point. If someone sends you a snide PM trashing you, feel flattered that they wasted that much time on you. If your post is edited/deleted and you get a warning, and you feel you weren't out of line? Don't do it again. It doesn't matter what you thought- you weren't the one on the line who had to make that choice.

[Marius Fett]

My thoughts exactly

[DarthStrider]

I'm new here (so I apologise if I seem out of line) and I therefore can not take sides or pick and choose. I am a member of many forums and am also a moderator on another site.

 

This thread actually caught my attention. And honestly, I think some people are actually creating mountains out of mole hills. No one is perfect, absolutely no one. Everyone makes mistakes and most of the time, these mistakes can be corrected if the person takes the time.

 

I think it was very good of Rogue Nine to compromise. That takes a lot.

 

Moderators and Adminastrators have a very tough job (and I am not saying that just because I am a Moderator on a different forum, as in truth, I really do not have a lot to moderate) and often have very tough decisions to make. A lot of thought and debates go on to make sure all mods agree before performing a tough job. And I am sure the current situation doesnt come into consideration, but the members history with the site and other members.

 

And there's my bit. I once again apologise if you feel that I am out of line.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Oh god! I called someone a wolf.

And to top it off, it wasn't even funny! Try not acting so SERIOUS BUSINESS all the ****ing time. Jesus.

 

What! Everyone is welcomed here.

Internet != Candyland. It's just a big pool of hate.

 

 

And get Firefox so you can spell check your posts.

[tk102]

Internet != Candyland. It's just a big pool of hate.

Easy there jmac, we don't need to prove it.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Easy there jmac, we don't need to prove it.

It was QED'd in like 1996.

[Jediphile]

Uh, no. One complaint about an obviously non-insulting joke does not qualify for removal of content. If we'd received more complaints however, it would have been removed.

 

So what you're saying is that no matter what is posted, it will not be deleted unless at least two people complain about it first?

 

But seeing as pretty much every other member thought it wasn't a problem, it was left alone. And it did serve a bit of a purpose, some members seem to take themselves too seriously, they need to calm down and be better posters. Nerd rage -1.

 

This is so bad logic that it's just begging to be pointed out. That people did not complain does not automatically mean that they were fine with it. It just means that they didn't complain. To infer otherwise is to invoke "the silent majority". Heck, I can do that too and claim that there are few people on these boards because they are all annoyed with the lousy moderating, but just can't be bothered to complain about it. You'll note I generally don't do that. I leave that to really bad politicians...

 

DISCLAIMER: The latter does not mean that I'm a politician, but is just an attempt to disprove the idea that I have no sense of humor.

 

No you didn't, you quoted his post (in another thread) and did so in a taunting fashion. If this wasn't your intent, then you need to learn how to phrase things better. Your post was deleted because it clearly served no purpose, the on-topic discussion was easily seen as tacked on to make yourself appear innocent.

 

I deny that utterly. Since I quoted Niner, you can call my post only tauting if that was true of his as well. Both were stated during heated debates on the verge of flaming. If my post served to make matters worse in that situation, then surely so did Niner's. It's sad to watch how the mods insist on sticking together in order to cover up Niner's blunder here. Just the fact that my post was deleted underscores the problem quite well, and frankly it's somehow perversely amusing to see how the mods now backpedal to differentiate between two virtually identical situations.

 

But I'll bite. Since you just said that it would take more than one complaint for you to delete or revise Niner's post, let me ask it openly: How many complaints did you receive about my posts before you deleted them?

 

And, of course, even if I were to agree that quoting Niner is acceptable - which I don't - that still leaves the matter of what it was necessary to delete the entire post. Basically what you're saying here is that it was okay to delete the entire post, because YOU didn't think the rest of it was of a high enough quality. Sorry, but that is elistist in the extreme!

 

It's also utterly untruthful, since the mods scarecely go through all the posts here and delete all those that are not of "sufficiently high quality". Basically you're saying that the rest of what I wrote did not have a quality that warranted its existence on these boards. Excuse me, but how DARE you judge the content of on-topic material like that?!?

 

I mean, what if a new poster came to this board and said in his first post: "Hi, I'm new here, but I like KotOR, and I really hope they make KotOR3 and preferably soon, though I hope Bioware makes, because TSL sucked so bad, since all the Sith Lords were the worst in Star Wars history. Bye."

 

Now, does this post add anything constructive to the discussion? No. It's all been said before.

 

Is it inflamatory? Since it voices strong criticism of characters in TSL that other people care about, it could be.

 

Should therefore be deleted? No.

 

Yet by saying that what was in my post was "tacked on" and therefore fit for deletion, you're establishing a level of quality in posts here. That's elitist. Also, please point this rule out to me in the forum guidelines.

 

 

If you've not noticed, it's common practice here for people to call each other geeks/nerds/clinically insane. If you can't handle the everyday teasing that goes on you need to grow a thicker skin, but starting threads like this expecting people to change their behavior to accommodate you is childish and self-centered.

 

[snip]

 

Double standards anyone?

 

Seeing you hold yourself to the same standard you're insulting people for having amuses me.

 

Okay, ED. Take a deep breath, please... Okay?

 

First, while I acknowledge that I very blunt here, I do believe it's relevant to point out the double standard here, and I would humbly ask that you look into the links I posted before judging solely on the bluntness of my comments here. Sadly that will be difficult, of course, since the allegedly offending posts are deleted and cannot be recovered

 

And yes, my comments are blunt. More blunt that I would like. So why is that? Sadly, it's because it is my experience that it is the only way the mods will even acknowledge my existence. While the mods say here and elsewhere that being reasonable and tolerant will yield better results, that has - unfortunately - not proven to be my experience on many occasions.

 

I frequently back down when people tell me that something I've pointed out is being considered by the mods, but here I find that's usually all that happens, and that if I leave it there, I'll have to wait until there are two thursdays in a week AND a cold day in Hell, if not longer...

 

If you find my approach childish, then I can't blame you, but how can you fault me when it works, while the alternative did not? Niner actually responded this time and considered the matter.

 

I too lament this. But if others will only be reasonable if I convince them that they must be because I'm so very unreasonable, then I'm left with little recourse. You're right that it's double standard, but can you blame me for following the examples of the mods? Sadly it was the only way to underscore my point, since nobody wanted to deal with it otherwise.

 

And since I do believe the standards of the moderation and the rules of the forum are relevant to discuss, I maintain that it was necessary to bring this to a point, where the mods had no choice but to resolve the matter.

 

I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting. Your response to my PM was to the effect that you had a very low opinion of me. Since I am so worthless in your opinion and even if I had prepared a very polite answer to your response, I didn't send it as I thought that it was pointless to even try to further discuss the situation with you based on what you wrote to me and what you had previously sent to other mods in the past. Next time you want a follow up on your PMs, lay off the personal insults.

 

What you conveniently neglect to mention here - referring to a PM not posted to the board and reffered to without my consent, I might add - is that that PM was an angry response to your decision to simply delete completely inoffensive a single post each by Ztalker and myself, where we wondered about what was permissible in response to Niner's now infamous "nerd rage" comment, which killed the discussion between liayd and myself. There was nothing offensive in those posts, and given that they were in response to mod's post about the level the discussion could be taken to, I don't think it can be considered to be unwarranted and fit for deletion. If we had continued, perhaps it had been relevant to step in, but we only posted one each and then stopped. Yet it was just deleted. If you act like a net-nazi, then don't be surprised if I make comments like your chosen name is fitting. That's humor, which I thought you liked, given that you had refused to do something about Niner's post.

 

Let me ask something in return. Is it permissible to mention things from PMs openly on the board, as you do here? Because it seems to me that I'm being deleted for quoting something Niner say on the board... And your intents here can hardly be called humorous IMHO.

 

When the Source says "grow some tolerance" it should apply to everyone, not only to the staff.

 

Interesting. Basically you're saying that the staff will "grow some tolerance" once everybody else has.

 

I see the other way around: Perhaps the rest of us would grow some tolerance if the staff did first by example. And that remains to be seen.

 

Finally, the mods are opened to compromise.

 

When? I have yet to see it yield ANY results. What Niner has said in this topic is actually the closest thing I've witnessed since I joined this forum. Others have appeared reasonable at times, yes, but has remained with only words of sympathy that disappeared quickly once those were called upon to be anything more...

 

However, as mentioned above, we can't comply with every request and moderate the boards to please everyone.

 

Indeed...

 

In the original thread, I posted following tk's warning to everyone (you and LIAYD) to cool down.

 

If LIAYD and myself were the only ones, then why bother? tk102 had already said something.

 

My post was intended to be on topic, with a bit of mirth thrown in in hopes that the two of you would take a step back and cool your jets. You obviously did not take see it that way, choosing instead to see it as an insult. You were told that it was a joke and that you should just leave it be. I imagine this did not sit well with you.

 

Obviously.

 

In light of these circumstances, it is hard to believe that you quoted my exact phrase with the intent of finding it funny. It's very clear to me that you intended to taunt me by doing so, given our past history and your obvious dislike of me.

 

No, I absolutely deny that. It's true that I did find your comment funny, but it's not true that I intended to taunt you or have obvious dislike of you.

 

At most you could accuse me of testing whether the comment was indeed as funny as the mods had claimed. I did not think so, so when I saw a similarly heated debate between especially yourself and another poster, I felt it wholly appropriate to quote the comment and then agree with it. After all, if it was just humor, then that would be okay, and if not, then would confirm my initial reaction to it. Since the mods did not like and repeatedly deleted my post, the latter would seem to be the case in the mods' eyes, despite their original claims to the contrary.

 

You may not believe this, but I think you to be a very erudite and well-spoken contributer to these forums; that is, when you're not going off on diatribes about how the mods are out to get you. If you would just contribute and not take everything so sensitively, I imagine we'd get along just fine.

 

Actually, I'm arrogant enough to believe that I have contributed constructively at times - http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=177894

 

And I dare to believe that even this topic can be constructive if we allow it to be.

 

Unfortunately, you also have a persecution complex, in that you believe everyone on the mod staff is out to get you.

 

How many times am allowed to see the same pattern repeat itself before I'm allowed a conclusion? It becomes increasingly difficult to avoid as it continues to happen, you know.

 

Quite frankly, you are too sensitive. You take things way too personally. No one else reacts to jokes/friendly sarcasm/etc like you do. We do not have this problem with anyone else and I don't think it is fair that we must use a different set of standards/words/tones when dealing with you. Everyone is dealt with in the same fashion. You are the only one who has reacted in such a way.

 

Have you considered the possibility, just the possibility, that it could also be because I'm the only one who endures to take the confrontation rather than just give up and run away?

 

Much as I criticise the mods, that should suggest something positive to you.

 

Look, let me (myself and I; I do not speak for the rest of the staff) make a deal with you, okay? I understand that my joke made you upset and I am sorry that it did, because that was not my intent. I also do not think that the best way to handle it was to taunt me with it. That being said, I'm will watch what I say in the future when dealing with sensitive and heated topics. I am outspoken and blunt, with a very sarcastic sense of humor, but I'm willing to temper myself when dealing with potentially volatile situations.

 

Thank you.

 

In return, I ask that you not take everything so seriously. Being hypersensitive to the point where a joke like the one I made is construed to be a personal attack doesn't really help anything. In the same vein, please do not try to take justice into your own hands and try to 'make a point', as this isn't the right way to do so.

 

Please believe me when I say that I resort to "taking justice into my own hands" only because I see no other recourse. You think I enjoy being universally hated by the mods? I don't. But I frankly find fair and open discussion without fear of random deletion by the mods and with fair rules that are applied equally to everyone to be a more important issue than Star Wars.

 

That's the point here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who does watch the watchers? I'm frequently left with the impression that nobody does, and that the mods care more about basking in their own autority and prove their relative power by making snide remarks at posters and then get away with it because they're mods and think themselves above the rules. That's not a stab at you or anyone in particular, but it's what I've been wondering for some time, and that's a problem. I sense The Source voicing something similar (please forgive me if I'm mistaken), and it worries me. I visit a number of other of other boards and forums, and this is the only one where I have ever seen it to that degree. It's also the only board where people have called me overly sensitive. Food for thought?

[tk102]

What you conveniently neglect to mention here[, Darth333,] - referring to a PM not posted to the board and reffered to without my consent, I might add... Is it permissible to mention things from PMs openly on the board, as you do here?

Jediphile, you were the one who brought it up the topic of PMs... and Darth333 even implied that she wasn't sure which one you were referring to with her edit... please review:

Ah, now you put your foot in it. You know full well that I posted to several PMs to both Darth333 and tk102 on this very matter.

In short, you're just plain wrong. I DID use the PM system. That especially Darth333 preferred to just ignore me is a big part of the problem here. And yes, those PMs can be produced to prove this.

 

I answered very politely to your initial PM that was already, and that was our first "personal" contact to the best of my knowledge, treating me as a nazi and saying that my title was fitting....

edit: if you are talking about the PM you sent me today, you had already posted the present thread ( which is a copy of what was in my mailbox ) when I saw the PM.

The vitriol described in a first contact like this cannot bode well for future relations and dooms any chance of constructively addressing the problem.

 

 

That's the point here: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who does watch the watchers? I'm frequently left with the impression that nobody does

But that's a recursive question Jediphile. Eventually you end up with the answer "nobody" or "everybody" or "God" or something equally nonconstructive.

 

I feel like this thread has stalled on rehashing old issues and confusing them with current ones. Would you like to make any further constructive criticisms or shall I close this thread?

[Jae Onasi]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

Latine loqui coactus sum.

[JediMasterJambi]

I think the whole point of this was that hes tired of the ALL issues with the current staff here, old or new.

An issue left unresolved is STILL an issue. So closing this thread will mostlikley result in another thread posted. If not now, then in the future.

 

Nine seems to have the best grasp of things as far as this argument goes. Compromise as a resolve would be nice. Instead of just BAM, close thread, or BAM, banhammer.

 

Edit: Im gonna barrow that little feature TK ^-^. And yes, that was quite snippity earilier.

My point, short and sweet was that EL Sitherino and ED seemed to be trying to shift all the blame solely upon Phile. I think the Mods have a bit of blame here aswell. I accepted my blame when I joined this thread with the intent of compromise.