Dragon Age

[Sabretooth]

I don't personally consider the Witcher low fantasy, however you cited that Wikipedia entry as your definition of low fantasy and that does specifically call it out as such. By those standards therefore you must also include DA.

I really don't see how the Witcher is low fantasy, but I'll reserve my judgement as I haven't played it. If it does not involve the real world we live in, in even the most distant of ways, it cannot qualify for Low Fantasy.

 

Dragon Age as far as I know, it set in a world quite distinct from our own and is automatically booted out of the Low Fantasy camp and into High Fantasy. And as it has dark themes, it qualifies as Dark Fantasy.

[DarthParametric]

Meh. The whole high/low thing is a complete crock anyway. As far as I'm concerned there's either fantasy or realism. Sticking an elf in either the middle of London or the middle of some imagined world makes no difference - it's fantasy whatever way you want to cut it.

[Pavlos]

Both Kotaku and Gamespot have uploaded their impressions of the hands-on demonstration of BioWare's "dark fantasy" RPG, Dragon Age, at Comic-Con. While Kotaku's is a basic, and positive, overview of the 360 edition, the Gamespot article is a little more interesting, dealing with the "Origins" part of Dragon Age: Origins through a discussion of character creation and how it affects the progression of the plot. The information is made available in brief via a video interview with Lead Designer Mike Laidlaw.

[Rake]

Some nice previews at gamebanshee:

 

Preview 1

 

Interview 1

 

Interview 2

 

The more info that is released, the more psyched I am for this game. The combat and chracter creation/origins look great, looks like NWN-esque with all the hassles taken out of it. With probably around 70+ hours of gameplay + modules + DLC; this game could last awhile, hopefully the long gameplay is accompanied by an amazing story.

[igyman]

As far as I know at least one party member is some sort of mage, so it's reasonable to assume that there will be a mage class available to the player as well.

[Rake]

As far as I know at least one party member is some sort of mage, so it's reasonable to assume that there will be a mage class available to the player as well.

 

You can play as a mage, rogue, or warrior; and each one has 4 specialization classes that you can unlock through the story, or at a certain level gain "specialization," points that allow you to start up one of the special trees (i.e. blood mage, shapeshifter, templar, assassin, duelist, etc...).

 

Reading through the third interview makes my wallet cringe; lead dev said in about 2 years time they plan on having close to 100 packages available for DLC o_O, hoping 90/100 are free.

[SpaceAlex]

Some new videos are available on Youtube in HD (courtesy of IGN), which show that origins truly affect the story (at least the beginning); so it's not just a marketing gimmick (Mass Effect comes to mind).

 

The videos show the beginning of the origin story (not the game), so if you feel that's too much of a spoiler, don't watch them.

 

Dwarf Noble

 

Dalish Elf (spider "lovers" [i know this forum is just full of them ] beware )

 

Mage

 

Videos showing the other three origins will become available at a later date, I believe. In the meantime, you can watch a few short videos here.

[DarthParametric]

Heh. I'm sure IGN really appreciate people posting their subscription-based videos for free on YouTube.

 

Nothing really new there in terms of content, as all the origins have already been detailed in the various previews going around. Interesting to see it in action though.

[Rake]

They also have a few other, like voice talent and soundtrack. I heard the voice talent contained some major spoilers so I refrained from viewing that one, but the soundtrack one, I enjoyed; liked all the music they revealed.

 

They also have 2 character reveals that aren't that spoilery. One thing I hate, usually common to most of the videos, is the blood spatter on the characters' faces after a minor skirmish. They all look like psychotic beings straight out of FEAR.

[SpaceAlex]

One thing I hate, usually common to most of the videos, is the blood spatter on the characters' faces after a minor skirmish. They all look like psychotic beings straight out of FEAR.

 

Yeah, I don't really like it that much either, but, luckily for us, you can turn this effect off (without needing to turn blood off altogether), as confirmed by a dev on BW forums.

[DarthParametric]

Yeah the blood spatter thing is pretty retarded. Something pushed for by the marketing department no doubt to bring in the non-RPG console crowd, in the same vein as the "violence" trailer (the one with Marilyn Manson's dulcet tones).

 

By the way, the first official review came out recently in a Polish magazine. There's a thread over on the official site about it. Here's one summary of the article -

 

I've just finished reading the review. The overall rate is 8+/10.

 

Pros:

multi-threaded plot

climate

combat

great possibilities for development

length

 

Cons:

looks old school

some fights are difficult like hell even at lower difficulty levels

 

There are additional rates for:

- graphics: 7/10

- music: 9/10

- playability 9/10

 

Predictably, the fanboys are getting pissy over the score and the various points raised in the review.

[SpaceAlex]

Well, some of the criticism from the "fanboys" is not unfounded (I too consider old school looks and high difficulty a plus), but it's true they're getting a little too worked up over a review for a game they haven't even played yet.

[DarthParametric]

Well it was more that it was "only" given an 8. I can certainly see their point, when dross like Oblivion and Fallout 3 gets 9s and 10s. The manner of their outrage is just kind of humorous is all.

 

I'm all for an old school, hard-core RPG - that's exactly what I want. Assuming DA is actually in that vein, it's a given that it is going to get marked down by the mainstream media. Your average slob isn't interested in that sort of thing. They want shallow action games with whizz-bang graphics.

[Pavlos]

Yes but given the samples of writing that we have seen, I don't think fans of old-school RPG fans are going to be overly pleased, either.

[SpaceAlex]

Hey, I'll take anything these days (anything not made by Bethesda anyway ). It's been a while since I played a fresh, old school RPG.

[DarthParametric]

Yes but given the samples of writing that we have seen, I don't think fans of old-school RPG fans are going to be overly pleased, either.

I'm not sure what games you've played but I don't recall any old school RPGs that were War and Peace-level narrative masterpieces.

[Pavlos]

I didn't say I expected Lear out of it, but the dialogue displayed thus far is underwhelming to say the least.

 

"Gentlemen, surely, there's no need for trouble."

<Thugs disagree; fade to black>

"I tried to be merciful!"

<Fade back in; they're dead, everyone's covered in blood, no one seems to mind much>

 

It's not exactly Dickens, is it?

[DarthParametric]

No, but is any RPG? Or any game period for that matter?

[Pavlos]

No. That's not my point: what I have seen of Dragon Age leads me to expect the writing to be significantly worse than, say, Torment or Baldur's Gate II.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

i hope enemies explode in giant waves of blood and it absolutely decimates alpha protocol's sales to the point where obsidian's offices explode and shower the southwestern us with blood then bioware releases a special blood edition of dragon age that comes with a pint of o- blood with a small explosive inside of it with all the lettering on the box, in the manual, and in the game formed from human bones except all the i's are dotted with tits and the t's are crossed with legs clad in fishnet stockings and it comes with a dlc where you play as a highwayman who just rapes and pillages and can use blood magic powerups to rape and pillage faster

[Jeff]

i hope enemies explode in giant waves of blood and it absolutely decimates alpha protocol's sales to the point where obsidian's offices explode and shower the southwestern us with blood then bioware releases a special blood edition of dragon age that comes with a pint of o- blood with a small explosive inside of it with all the lettering on the box, in the manual, and in the game formed from human bones except all the i's are dotted with tits and the t's are crossed with legs clad in fishnet stockings and it comes with a dlc where you play as a highwayman who just rapes and pillages and can use blood magic powerups to rape and pillage faster

I agree with this.

 

Also the best part of the game is the brothel where you can say surprise me and come face to face with a man, a woman, a transsexual, or an animal (I forget if this has been brought up in this thread but it's mature)

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

that part is rated m for mega mature

[Jeff]

Dragon Age: Origins Gets Day One DLC

 

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This is seriously one of the worst things to piss me off about a game. I'm not sure if EA came in and specified that they wanted DLC levels or if it was BioWare's idea or a combination of both, but day 1 DLC is just the most obvious way to try and get more money out of you. If it's available on day 1, it could and should have shipped with the game for free. I guarantee I won't be playing that first level. Sounds like as long as you buy the game new, you'll get the second one.

[DarthParametric]

I'm not a big fan of the DLC concept. To me it just offers too much of an excuse to nickel and dime customers. Things like the infamous horse armour and EA charging people to unlock content already on the disc for example. I do get some of the justification from the dev's viewpoint though. It's a way to get a more consistent stream of new content to the endusers and at a lower price point, both of which in theory should be good things. It's the execution that has been questionable in the past.

 

As far as Dragon Age goes, one of the devs over on the official forums made a number of posts about the reasons behind having first day DLC. As you can imagine, plenty of people over there were asking questions as well.

 

The process of shipping a game is a gradual series of hardening and locking down. The world needs to be solidified so that the plot structure can be formed. The plot structure needs to be solid so that the plots can be written. The plots need to be written so that they can be scripted. The plots need to be scripted so that they can be tested. The plots need to be tested so that they can be voiced. The plots need to be voiced so that they can be staged and given cinematic polish. The cinematic polish needs to be finished so that it can be tested. Everything needs to be locked down so that performance testing and optimization and eventually disc layout and certification can be done.

 

Now, things don’t always work perfectly, and changes often have to be made to things which were assumed to be locked, which causes a ripple effect and lots of work for everyone. You need to stop changing things at some point so everything that depends on them can be done. DLC is a separate product, so it doesn’t have to be tested and verified as part of the final build, it doesn’t have to be accounted for in the disc layout, and it doesn’t have to be in the game when it goes through official certification. It has its own schedule and its own verification process. And let’s not forget its own budget, because ultimately games are a business and manpower is limited by money.

 

To make the console ports possible, the content of Dragon Age was locked down in the spring. It wasn’t possible to add new content past that point, and the VO lockdown was much earlier than that. The game was still tested and improved with bug fixes, stability and performance improvements etc, but adding whole new adventure like Wardens Keep? That would have pushed the release date back. The PC version had a very long time after content lockdown for testing and final polish, which could have been cut short to ship that version earlier, but it was decided to ship it simultaneously with the console versions for a variety of reasons. But that’s a separate issue.

 

Could we have taken people from the DLC team and put them on the console version to speed the porting process up? Not really. Porting content requires a lot of programmers and not very many designers. We had a surplus of writers, tech designers and cinematic designers and even artists, so we put them to use. If anything, DLC is taking away from potential future projects, not from Dragon Age: Origins.

 

First, it's decided that a game has to ship on a certain date. Unless you're going to delay the game, that can't change. You then start working back from there.

 

The manufacturer needs the final build and disc layout with enough time to print and ship the game, so you need to be completely done the game by that earlier date.

 

Now to ship a game, you need to go through publisher certification and if you’re on consoles you also need to go through the console manufacturer’s certification. These things take time, so that gives you an earlier deadline.

 

You have to prepare for that certification process, so you set a date where you can't make any changes except fixing things that would cause you to fail certification.

 

Before that there's a date when you can't fix any bugs except ones that have been approved by a triage group, so the game can be tested in a stable form and you don't introduce problems at the last minute.

 

Before that there's a date where you can't add anything new so you have enough to test and to fix bugs on what's there.

 

And it goes on, to earlier and earlier lockdown dates.

 

The process of shipping DLC is independent of all of this. DLC is much smaller than a game, and it's tested and certified independently and much more quickly, so it's not bound by the above dates. You can work on DLC right up to and past ship without effecting the release date.

 

If it's done, you could release the DLC for free, which would essentially make it a day 1 patch, but it absolutely could not be on the disk. That's pretty close to what we've done with Shale, as an incentive to get people to create an account and learn how to use the download service. To ship all DLC for free however ignores the fact that the DLC is made to be sold. The people working on it are paid by a budget that is only approved on the basis that there will be sales in return.

 

As for firing the designers and hiring more programmers, the workforce isn't that flexible. Finding good talent takes time, and firing skilled employees because they don’t have enough work in the short term is folly.

 

There are a few other posts about it as well, in this thread and elsewhere in the forum, but what it boils down to from what I can see is that the console versions dictate what can be put on the disc to a large extent. And as the dev alluded to, things like workforce distribution and of course money play a part as well.

[cire992]

^ The DLC is a rip-off, and that statement doesn't have me second guessing my instincts one bit. I don't care what the story is behind it, for the price of those dlc packs I could buy the Orange Box.