TheExile Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 @ EW Well, sorry for the Tribulation thing. I'm an eco-freak! Can't HELP IT!!! And I believe I have been misunderstood. The thread itself it's not pointless. We learned that an famous astronaut said that aliens are among us. The discussion about aliens visited/not visited Earth is pointless. The skeptics will remain skeptics, the believers will remain believers. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 We learned that an famous astronaut is an absolute lunatic. Fix'd _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 As I've said previously, it's hard for me to believe that they have been made here on earth since the 1940s (possibly even earlier). Way to insult our hard working engineers, Han. Real classy. Go down to JPL labs and say that to the engineers, see what happens. superior humanoid species. Like Humans? Because the grays aren't real, Han, you agreed. It's impossible. Physics, you can't break the laws of physics, Han. Also, the people who talk about time-traveling with the Grays are only like 3 people out of the entire UFO believers. Why didn't you say that you were one of them? Of course I'm open to all other explanations. Except the rational, less interesting ones, apparantly. Life isn't a comic book. Again, I'm still very skeptic on the whole issue and the reason I'm debating is to gain more information from both sides, you see. You're clearly not a skeptic in my opinion, based on what you've said. I'm going to give you quick, simple conclusion from Physics (because if I tried to get into the laws and equations I'd butcher it). 1. You can't break the laws of physics. 2. According to the laws of physics, we can't get to the rest of the Galaxy. 3. If we can't get to the rest of the Galaxy, neither can your "superior humanoid species" get here. 4. Physics is universal. The aliens are bound to those same laws as us. That's where the whole superior technology thing breaks down, so don't even try it on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoiuyWired Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Well, there is definitely Aliens... they are from across the borders... As for the "lifeform from outer space" thing, I think the question is not "if they exist" (they must, case of pure probability) but more of a "if they have visited earth" case. Now, ignoring the possable virus/bacteria hitchhiker on astrids, I don't think there has been any space alien visits. Obviously this is not beyond the scope of extreme possability. I mean, sometimes explorers do go far far out in the way to film for animal planet and things like that, so it is entirely possable (though extremely improbable) that there had been a Hutt XSteve Arwin doing some visits before... On the other hand, there is nothing in physics saying that intergalactic travel is impossable. I personally thinkthat people are too boxed in by the whole lightspeed travel thing (which is impossable by physics) If anything it would be either by thousands of years of hybanation for the low tech people to two really near planets (not applicable to Earth which is out in nowhere) or by some other forms of travel that does not involve in going really really fast. Don't ask me how its going to work though. I am just saying that some other forms of locomotion may exist that we have never thought of before, and our knowledge of physics is still incomplete; its just that we know a bit more than we did back in the days, as always. I mean, a few thousand years ago no one would expace people trolling on a internet form claiming some future elected head of state being the mythical antichrist that would bring the end of all things... Our thoughts and imagination is still somewhat bound by what we are able to understand with what little information we can muster from the present day world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Well, there is definitely Aliens... they are from across the borders... -_- You don't want to get me started on this debate. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pho3nix Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 http://ufoblogger.blogspot.com/2008/07/edgar-mitchell-apollo-14-moon-nasa.html I'd hardly call that solid proof, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. I definitely believe that there is alien life out there, I mean, why wouldn't there be? I can't understand why anyone wouldn't believe in life outside Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 hell, they are making a KoToR MMO.... sure ill believe this hehe. @ the people who keep saying it's impossible because of the laws of physics and stuff: Physics are just a bunch of self imposed rules we use to make an approximation of the world around us. Just because they seem accurate enough on a certain scale doesn't mean we understand anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I take it you've never studied physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 -_- You don't want to get me started on this debate. _EW_ You don't want to get anyone started on that. hell, they are making a KoToR MMO.... sure ill believe this hehe. That is as good as reason as any. @ the people who keep saying it's impossible because of the laws of physics and stuff: Physics are just a bunch of self imposed rules we use to make an approximation of the world around us. Just because they seem accurate enough on a certain scale doesn't mean we understand anything. Is there anything that is 'more accurate' out there then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I definitely believe that there is alien life out there, I mean, why wouldn't there be? I can't understand why anyone wouldn't believe in life outside Earth. Maybe for the same reason some don't believe on God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Way to insult our hard working engineers, Han. Real classy. Go down to JPL labs and say that to the engineers, see what happens. Are you kidding me? Haha, sorry pal for finding it ironic that we barely even had color television, let alone a computer that isn't the size of an entire room. Like Humans? Because the grays aren't real, Han, you agreed. It's impossible. Physics, you can't break the laws of physics, Han. When did I ever agree that it was impossible to have another humanoid species, and since when did that have anything to do with the law of physics? Why didn't you say that you were one of them? Because I said BARELY any UFO believers have come out to say that they time traveled with the Grays. I've never been abducted by aliens sir. Except the rational, less interesting ones, apparantly. Life isn't a comic book. Which ones were those? The one where the government in the 40s created aircraft that can reverse gravity, go several thousands of miles per-hour, break-in-two and become separate orbs, let alone do many other things I've never seen, that could be described as impossible by other modern technology? Not mention never making a sound in the process. Damn, and the Germans were still a threat to us? They must have had crazy sh**. You're clearly not a skeptic in my opinion, based on what you've said. I am very skeptic. Anything that I can not prove or disprove I am skeptic of. 2. According to the laws of physics, we can't get to the rest of the Galaxy. I don't believe the law of physics says that, I'm pretty sure we can but it would take too long. 3. If we can't get to the rest of the Galaxy, neither can your "superior humanoid species" get here. Of course.. We can, it would just take an entire population living and reproducing aboard a massive spacecraft in-order for it to work. Of course I don't believe we have the technology for that now, and we aren't ready to do that. 4. Physics is universal. The aliens are bound to those same laws as us. That's where the whole superior technology thing breaks down, so don't even try it on me. Unless of course you come across a 'wormhole". There are many things that scientists don't understand about the universe, for all we know there could be other dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathoris Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 i'm not saying i have something more accurate. What i'm saying is we are a very tiny little part of this massive universe around us and it's rather unlikely we understand everything in it. And fyi i do studie physics actually, i just try to stay open minded. After all current theories are all based on our limited human logic and intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I don't believe the law of physics says that, I'm pretty sure we can but it would take too long. You don't believe? You clearly don't KNOW. Too long. Exactly. Why then, do you believe Aliens can break the laws of physics? They aren't gods pal. Too long, and we know we can't go past a certain speed limit to make it shorter. That's proven, so enything we learn from here has to fit with that principle. I can't explain it to you, you really need to read into it yourself. Long story short, we know enough to understand what can't be done. Unless of course you come across a 'wormhole". There are many things that scientists don't understand about the universe, for all we know there could be other dimensions. Say that to Einstein. Say that to Hawking. I don't know why you discredit scientists instead of listen to them. They no more about the universe than you or I, and certainly more than anyone who thinks they've seen a spaceship. There are no wormholes around here. And do you know why? There's not enough mass or energy to create something like that around here. Do you know how much mass and how much energy and how much gravity you need to create a wormhole? I won't bother finding the number, it's so big that it doesn't even really mean anything. But what intillegent being would honestly drive into a wormhole? We don't really know a hell of a lot about them. We've never met anyone who went into to one and came back out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Too long. Exactly. Why then, do you believe Aliens can break the laws of physics? They aren't gods pal. Did you actually read what I wrote? Since when has intergalactic travel been in "the law of physics"? Say that to Einstein. Say that to Hawking. It's ironic that you would say that since Albert Einstein and Nathan Rosen are the people who came up with the idea of Einstein-Rosen bridges (more commonly known as wormholes). And while you're at it, go ask some astronomers if they've seen any nearby wormholes lately. Besides, do you know how much energy and mass you would need to create a wormhole? I won't even bother looking it up. The number was so immense it didn't even really mean anything to me. Create a wormhole. Not in your life. Or an extraterrestrial's. "Until recently, theorists believed that wormholes could exist for only an instant of time, and anyone trying to pass through would run into a singularity. But more recent calculations show that a truly advanced civilization might be able to make wormholes work. By using something physicists call “exotic matter,” which has a negative energy, the civilization could prevent a wormhole from collapsing on itself. The stuff of science fiction, to be sure. But perhaps some day in the far future, it could also turn into science fact." That is from pbs.org Stephen Hawking's Universe. I'm finished arguing about this. You smart, Han, but not smart enough to make the kind of sensational arguments that you've been attempting. Good debate though, we've just proven that this really is a hot topic for some people. I'm also glad that I have finally had the opportunity to debate with someone who isn't clear on what the law of physics are, and has included absolutely no sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Heh, nice! Okay, I admit defeat. You've proven that I don't know much about physics. Now show me the aliens, Einstein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 i'm not saying i have something more accurate. What i'm saying is we are a very tiny little part of this massive universe around us and it's rather unlikely we understand everything in it. And fyi i do studie physics actually, i just try to stay open minded. After all current theories are all based on our limited human logic and intelligence. I would agree that we have a VERY limited knowledge of the universe. That doesn't mean we should throw away everything that makes scientific sense and assume that everything else defies what we know. Unless there is something that directly challenges the law of physics, we should assume proven concepts to apply everywhere else. If it is disproved, then we could venture other theories. Until then, all we have to go on is our limited knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Heh, nice! Okay, I admit defeat. You've proven that I don't know much about physics. Now show me the aliens, Einstein. I would doubt Einstein could even accomplish that request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I would doubt Einstein could even accomplish that request. Due to the fact that he is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 No, he will always be alive... in my heart. Moving on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 ^ Einstein will always with us, Han. He has become one with the physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Sitherino Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 What do you need, a body? No body. No crime. Proof can not be derived from an anecdote and #-handed information. As well any advances we've "mysteriously" made cannot be cast as proof of extraterrestrial presence. One can however logically conclude; that in a believed ever expanded (unlimited in itself) universe, that we are not the only form of intelligent life, with the capacity for human-like knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 ^ Einstein will always with us, Han. He has become one with the physics. Anyway... wouldn't it seem more logical to assume that something we can't explain is something other than extraterrestrial? There are so many other reasons or assumptions other than that it was an alien spacecraft. In ALL other more likely assumptions, why do so many jump to the conclusion that it came from another solar system? Maybe it's like modern religion, only god has been replaced by aliens. Then it can explain anything that doesn't make sense because we don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 ^ That's a far jump, but technically anything can be possible... even if it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. x) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cire992 Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 ^Yeah Yuthura, I tried that spiel, didn't get through to anyone. Han, if you're really as interested in ETs as you sound, my bet is that SETI institute are the guys who are going to be on top of all this if and/or when we find something. The chief behind the institute is Seth Shostak (sp?), you've probably seen him on TV at some point. He doesn't care much about UFOs, but he's written a few brilliant books you might find interesting. As for these UFOs/flying elephants/jesus/swamp gas apparitions that folks see flying around... what difference does it make? Whether they're aliens/Russians/the weather channel spying on us/ill-spent tax-payer dollars they don't have much to say. So, yeah, forgot where I was going with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nedak Posted July 28, 2008 Author Share Posted July 28, 2008 . Han, if you're really as interested in ETs as you sound, my bet is that SETI institute are the guys who are going to be on top of all this if and/or when we find something. The chief behind the institute is Seth Shostak (sp?), you've probably seen him on TV at some point. He doesn't care much about UFOs, but he's written a few brilliant books you might find interesting. I think I'll stick with my current career goals . As for these UFOs/flying elephants/jesus/swamp gas apparations that folks see flying around... what difference does it make? If they're aliens/Russians/ill-spent tax-payer dollars they don't have much to say. So, yeah, forgot where I was going with that. Again they could have a lot to say. (crop circles, deals with gov. who really knows) Until they are a proven hoax or until they are a confirmed fact, I will continue looking up at the stars at night and wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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