Anakin vs. Revan

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

hmm, the star forge was built 30,000 years before k1...

and it was used to manufacture ships etc for galactic conquest. when revan used it, they manufactured ships up to date with the tech those days. i wonder if revan's forces could steal some ISD schematics and quickly make the star forge spit a few out. but i doubt that would be likely. (imagine if they copied the death star! )

but now, my opinion: vader and imps vs revan and his sith: vader wins.

i believe in that leap in technology, but more than that i believe that the empire could quite possibly beat them in tactics. because, chances are, revan's empire would be in the galaxy's databanks as history. the imps could call up said info, and they would be able to see the tactics that revan used, and that knowledge would be a huge advantage, on top of the bigger, badder navy. corinthian and tka-001's arguments have me convinced at this point. if revan could shut the field down with jolee and juhani, empire could too it with a large bunch of stormies, and maybe a dark jedi thrown in. (from what ive seen of tfu, if secret apprentice was there, he might not even bother. he'd just rip the temple off its hill and throw it into the sea. kidding.)

[Astor]

hmm, the star forge was built 30,000 years before k1...

and it was used to manufacture ships etc for galactic conquest. when revan used it, they manufactured ships up to date with the tech those days.

 

That's because they used templates with current technology. The Sith Interdictor was originally a Republic design.

[Thanatos9t]

Thanatos, that argument would hold water if we were talking about Warhammer 40K. We aren't.

 

New technology obviously was pursued, given the fact that new ship designs continued to roll out of shipyards, such as Rendili Stardrive's Dreadnought Heavy Cruiser. The idea that study of technology relating to the military halted abruptly after the Battle of Ruusan is completely ludicrous. That may have been the last Galactic War before the Clone Wars started, but regional conflicts continued.

 

Can you imagine? The Supreme Chancellor smiles at the end of the Battle of Ruusan, and as his first order of business now that peace has come, he outlaws all scientists? It doesn't work that way.

 

But I'm talking about the technology advancements between KoToR and the Movies, yes the ships may have been redesigned but they are still made up of a similar level of Technology it's not like comparing a horse and cart to a fighter jet.

 

That was my whole point that the level of technology hasn't changed much in a brief (4000 years) (in comparison to the Republics timeline) amount of time.

 

Its not like KoToR was pre-hyperdrive then the whole point about outdated tech would be more valid:

 

Kolto tanks - yup (not Bacta my mistake)

Hyperdrive starships - yup

Lightsabers - yup

Blaster pistols - yup

Space fighters - yup

Space stations - yup

Astrometric droids - yup

Assasin droids - yup

Protocol droids - yup

Replacement body parts - (Malaks jaw and Gadon Theks ocular implants)

[Corinthian]

Bacta never shows up during Knights of the Old Republic. Only Kolto.

 

And yeah, they had similar stuff, but it all is mediocre - they had computers back in the 1960s, but I hope you enjoy using vacuum tubes.

 

Also, notice that all the prosthetics we see are crude things - Malak's jaw doesn't look real, and he's a bloody Sith Lord. The blasters are horrifically inaccurate, short-ranged, and don't do jack squat for damage, the astromechs are blocky things...

 

Yeah, it might not be quite as far behind as it logically should be, but we're talking a four thousand year difference.

[TKA-001]

One would also do well to note that the firepower of starships is far lower in the KOTOR era than later on.

[Chevron 7 locke]

Going back to the original topic here...I believe that Revan would beat Skywalker hands down. Revan had to fight countless mandalorians and jedi and he kept his rank of Dark Lord (Until Malak betrayed him) Skywalker...only fought padawans and knights, not to mention that many of the most powerful jedi masters and knights had been taken out by Order 66 before he got to the temple (Aayla secura, mace windu, the one chick whos name escapes me) Skywalker was basicly killing inexperienced knights and padawans and a few masters. Revan on the other hand fought Mandalore himself and still came out on top. So...revan wins hands down

[Corinthian]

Mandalore isn't Force-Sensitive. Killing Mandalore isn't all that impressive.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Also, notice that all the prosthetics we see are crude things - Malak's jaw doesn't look real, and he's a bloody Sith Lord.

i read the star wars:empire: betrayal (<--cliche!) and in it, there was an imperial guy who looked as crazy as vader. tubes sticking out of him and all. didnt look real. AT ALL

thats 4000 years later.

his name's grand moff trachta. man, he looks so nazi. (ugh)

i dont think that tech leap was *too* big. IMO, sith vs imps: sith would go down fighting. not get 'mopped the floor with'.

 

The blasters are horrifically inaccurate, short-ranged, and don't do jack squat for damage,

are you going by whats in the game? because in the game, you can stand square in front of a guy facing him, have your blaster rifle aimed right at him with a distance of, like, two feet between you and him, and you can have the entire salvo go completely off. like, 'hit-the-ground' off.

 

@ chevron 7 locke:

yeah revan had more experience than anakin. if that directly translates in the game, revan would be plain stronger. heres an example to illustrate my point:

imagine both revan and anakin in the games. we'll put anakin in ep3 at about lvl 28. revan has more than xp than anakin and thus, is at lvl 40. revan's level cap is 50. while anakin, being the chosen one, has a higher level cap of 65. but he never got there. so, though he could have exceeded revan in power, he didnt. but also remember in kotor and tsl, you face enemies that are at a waay higher level than you. (traya having 1000 vp=lvl 40?) and yet, you can still beat them. but its hard. put the anakin and revan npcs in an arena vs each other, and 7 times out out 10, revan would win. (there is still that chance of anakin winning)

on that scale, id put ol' sid in rotj at lvl 50.

[Corinthian]

So what? You're using gamelogic to explain why Revan is so awesome. Why shouldn't I use it to explain why Revan would lose?

[Inyri]

None of you should be using game mechanics to explain either, quite frankly. Blasters were inaccurate because they're low-level weapons using a dice roll system. There were lots of Jedi on the Star Forge because if there weren't your level 20 super awesome Jedi of doom would get bored.

 

Most likely neither would be that way if it wasn't a video game and was instead, for instance, a book or movie.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

So what? You're using gamelogic to explain why Revan is so awesome. Why shouldn't I use it to explain why Revan would lose?

 

 

i was using it as a example to explain my point. not support it.

if we took those things in the game as fact, then by hurling a grenade at a monkey, revan would suddenly learn how to hack a military grade security computer.

 

[Corinthian]

Is there any reason to believe that the basic blasters of the era were effective weapons?

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

from what i see, kotor era blasters are just as effective as the ones in the movies and in the other games. the only evidence i see of kotor blasters being useless is in the game. and the game only does the 'crazy miss' thing because of the dice roll system. if they made an rpg with the same dice roll system set in the OT era, they'd do the same thing. blasters do go off the mark a bit. like the e-11s in jedi academy and the dc-17s from republic commando. but they wont ping off the barrel sideways.

[Corinthian]

True, but the thing is, blasters don't even do very much damage. I believe the basic hand blaster is the weakest weapon in Kotor 1?

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

1-8 damage. energy. (im pretty sure)

if every shot hit, and rolled 8 damage vs Azkul for example. (the sith mercenary on dantooine, k2) that would take ages and you'd get wasted. you are right.

now take cassus fett's heavy pistol. i think thats the strongest blaster in k1. fully upgraded. it does something like upto 19 damage. in k1 terms, thats a formidable blaster.

but take that basic blaster jump to a novel, and fight azkul with it. every shot could kill him. it would be just as effective in the novel as cassus fett's pistol. (once you get past shields and whatever he has on him). except the cassus pistol would probably look better, might eat through shields faster, and have advanced features. like, link up with any hud you might be wearing etc. it might even play your favorite music while you put some punks out of their misery.

AFAIK, kotor blasters use the same tech as movie blasters. (canderous was speculating about the effects upping the tibanna gas in his rifle in k2)

[Corinthian]

Right, which is why nobody except an idiot or someone looking for a challenge actually has their main character use blasters and uses blast-toters for anything other than whittling enemies down from spitwad distance.

 

Have you seen a KotoR-era novel? I haven't. So how do you know that the blasters would be at all effective in it? In truth, you don't.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

POD was the closest to kotor novel. we'll find out when they release them next year. (i think. not sure)

i was speculating.

 

but come on, do you *really* think that kotor blasters are as useless as they are in game? thats ridiculous! why would they even bother putting blasters in the game? carth, canderous and hk's primary weapons were blasters. hk killed numerous jedi with blasters. and more evidence of kotor blasters and movie blasters having the same tech: hk's comment in the conversation with exile about the way droids should be treated. he said something about his line of work where the 'pieces of furniture (droids)' pull out "tibanna powered rifles" and put smoking holes in their masters. (cant remember exactly what he said)

what other evidence than the game do you have?

[Corinthian]

How could I possibly have any? Blasters haven't been significantly featured in the KotoR era anywhere else.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

so where did that opinion come from?

[Corinthian]

From the GAME.

[Inyri]

KotOR in-game pistol = DH-17 blaster, used by rebellion forces in A New Hope.

 

[/debate]

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

From the GAME.

what, so you're takin the game as evidence?

d20 *is not real*. in the novels they dont roll a dice to find if a point blank shot to the head would hit or not.

read my earlier posts' arguements against using game mechanics as evidence.

do you agree?

here is another example to help:

take canderous' suped up rifle he was thinking about. point it to (for sake of censoring) a humanoid droid's head ont the ground. also take that basic blaster and do the same with an identical droid's head. pull the trigger on both. use novel physics.

both droids will die. the difference would be that a standard blaster would burn a hole into the droid's head, while the modded rifle would incinerate the head, and punch a hole into the floor underneath.

[Corinthian]

Uh...no, Inyri. That's incorrect. Would you like to play again?

 

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/9/96/Carthblaster.jpg

 

That's what the standard Blaster looks like..

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Dh-17.jpg

And that's the DH-17.

 

Okay, maybe both Droids would die. Then again, they might not. But that's not my point. My point is that all technology in KotoR is 4000 years out of date, and this is not a universe like Warhammer 40K where technological advancement is at a standstill where it isn't sliding backwards. Science is still an understood concept in Star Wars. Weapons technology would advance just like anything else.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

Okay, maybe both Droids would die. Then again, they might not. But that's not my point. My point is that all technology in KotoR is 4000 years out of date, and this is not a universe like Warhammer 40K where technological advancement is at a standstill where it isn't sliding backwards. Science is still an understood concept in Star Wars. Weapons technology would advance just like anything else.

maybe they wouldnt?!

look, i have no doubt that tech has advanced in 4000 years, it would stink if it didnt. but a 200 year old western pistol and some latest metal storm pistol (

) would both kill me if they were shot to my head.

do you dispute that?

movie era pistols have obviously had a less technological jump from kotor pistols than that.

[Inyri]

Looks to clearly be the same design to me, Corinthian, or as close as you can get when your model is made entirely of boxes.