GarfieldJL Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Even if he was friends with a terrorist, that doesn't mean he knew the man was a terrorist, supports terrorists, or is a terrorist himself. So what exactly are you trying to get at? He may not have at first, but you can't legitimately argue that he didn't find out. He also continued to associate with the man even after knowing that the guy is a terrorist, and then he lied about it. Especially since Ayers has even wrote books about his "Weather Underground" days. If he had been upfront about this and said flat out he hadn't known about Ayers' past, and had moved to disassociate with the man, it would go thru the news for a few days that Obama had made an error in judgement, but he didn't. Instead, he lied about the association, and has made attempts to cover the association up. That's what implies that there is even more there than what we've seen thus far. In all honesty it would be a lot harder to convince people now that he didn't know about this until it was brought to his attention, because he wasn't up front and honest to begin with. Unlike McCain's Keating scandal, when McCain met Keating, the man hadn't been charged of any wrong doing so McCain might not have known what all was going on. William Ayers had been charged in the past for domestic terrorism, he managed to get out of it due to a legal technicality, though the man has repeatedly bragged about his terrorist acts. So here we have Senator Obama meeting with William Ayers where the information of this nut's terrorist acts is known (heck his wife was convicted for goodness sakes, though she's out and about as a professor now too). Barack Obama is then employed by Bill Ayers, he did speeches with the man, etc. all the while the information concerning Ayers was still out there. And then when asked about his associations with the man, he lies about it. Just like he's lied about the depth of his associations with Reverend Wright, which he got the title of his book from one of Wright's sermons. So the issue isn't just that these associations are there, it's also the fact he's lied about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Woah stop, just stop right there, I posted up an actual copy of the interview piece, you are quoting an analysis of that interview. The actual interview trumps a talking head when it comes to what they said in the interview. The video would be far more credible as a source if it wasn't spliced together with non-sourced statements on slides that make claims against Obama that the video does not support. 1. Senator Obama's campaign Manager at the time this was brought up a while ago said that the two were certainly friendly. Source, please. There are several articles that say Obama is certainly not friends with Bill Ayers (one example). 2. Obama started his state senate campaign in the guy's house. Again, may we have a source, please? In the same article I linked above, it says Obama attended a fundraiser at the Ayers' house. It doesn't say he started it there. 3. The served on boards together Okay, so what? This proves nothing of their alleged 'friendship'. People who serve on the same boards together do not necessarily have to be friends. 4. Barack Obama met his wife via introductions by Bill Ayers and his wife. Where did you hear this? Because according to Michelle Obama, she met Barack at the law firm they worked at, which makes sense, since they're both lawyers. So we've established it's more than them just happening to be in the same neighborhood. No, you haven't established anything other than the fact you're willing to believe all the eminently biased crap on YouTube about Obama. Evidence suggests that Senator Obama is friends with William Ayers. What evidence? You have yet to provide any concrete proof of this claim. William Ayers is a known terrorist. Was a known terrorist (who also happened to turn himself in peacefully to authorities). He's a respected professor at a prestigious university now. Therefore evidence suggests that Barack Obama is friends with a terrorist. That makes Governor Palin's accusations at the very least have merit. The big thing here though is that Barack Obama has repeatedly changed his story and outright lied about his association with William Ayers. Again, where's the proof? And it looks like the McCain Campaign has hit a nerve considering how the Obama campaign immediately reacted and started their attempts to go after the Keating Five situation from nearly 20 years ago when McCain had just started his first senate term. Politics is dirty, what can I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 The video would be far more credible as a source if it wasn't spliced together with non-sourced statements on slides that make claims against Obama that the video does not support. It shows you the key words for the searches though, it's rather hard to source everything in a video, however I have provided some connections in the past. Source, please. There are several articles that say Obama is certainly not friends with Bill Ayers (one example). Here is one, that shows he was more closely associated than he admits, but it's more extensive than what CNN is admitting. http://www.webloggin.com/cnn-admits-that-obama-lied-about-ayers/ another link: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=44114731&searchid=b9906e30-7bd2-4c43-8f6e-6785b31b13c8 another link: Again, may we have a source, please? In the same article I linked above, it says Obama attended a fundraiser at the Ayers' house. It doesn't say he started it there. I've found some more sources see above. Okay, so what? This proves nothing of their alleged 'friendship'. People who serve on the same boards together do not necessarily have to be friends. Uh huh, fundraisers at Ayer's home... Where did you hear this? Because according to Michelle Obama, she met Barack at the law firm they worked at, which makes sense, since they're both lawyers. Ayers' wife also worked at the law firm just she couldn't be a lawyer due to her conviction, and I heard about all this nearly two years ago. No, you haven't established anything other than the fact you're willing to believe all the eminently biased crap on YouTube about Obama. When I find legitimate sources that corroborate the YouTube videos I believe them. Was a known terrorist (who also happened to turn himself in peacefully to authorities). He's a respected professor at a prestigious university now. Yeah an unrepentant terrorist as a professor. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63 ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. And this is a guy Obama calls a respected mainstream member of society... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Ayers' wife also worked at the law firm just she couldn't be a lawyer due to her conviction, and I heard about all this nearly two years ago.[/Quote] Circumstantial at best. I work with someone who bought a new car. Does that mean i'm responsible for it? Not likely. Yeah an unrepentant terrorist as a professor. Some interesting tidbits in that source referring to things you've already quoted: Mr. Ayers, who in 1970 was said to have summed up the Weatherman philosophy as: ''Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at,'' is today distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago. And he says he doesn't actually remember suggesting that rich people be killed or that people kill their parents, but ''it's been quoted so many times I'm beginning to think I did,'' he said. ''It was a joke about the distribution of wealth.'' Once again you've distorted the facts to fit your viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Yeah, I think I'll believe the former FBI informant that Sean Hannity Interviewed whom infilitrated the Weather Underground over Bill Ayers as far as credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 It shows you the key words for the searches though, it's rather hard to source everything in a video, however I have provided some connections in the past. If it's a source I have to do my own footwork to research, then it's not really a source, is it? And you've provided nothing but slanted conjecture and mudslinging in the past. Here is one, that shows he was more closely associated than he admits, but it's more extensive than what CNN is admitting. http://www.webloggin.com/cnn-admits-that-obama-lied-about-ayers/ "More extensive" in this case means "with additional biased commentary and contrived conclusions." I'm sorry, find a better source than that. another link: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=44114731&searchid=b9906e30-7bd2-4c43-8f6e-6785b31b13c8 Nowhere does this link suggest that Obama and Ayers are friends, merely that they worked together on the CAC, knowledge which is already well circulated. another link: Yet another biased smear video that takes things massively out of context. Please stop relying on YouTube videos, they have little to no credibility whatsoever. I've found some more sources see above. None of those sources gave reliable information as to whether or not Obama started his campaign at Ayers' house, so please try again. Uh huh, fundraisers at Ayer's home... Doesn't prove they're friends. Ayers' wife also worked at the law firm just she couldn't be a lawyer due to her conviction, Right, but did Ayers' wife set Barack and Michelle Obama up on a date? Nowhere does it say that she did, so your claim of her doing that is false. and I heard about all this nearly two years ago. From where, the Tooth Fairy? When I find legitimate sources that corroborate the YouTube videos I believe them. We have yet to see any of these 'legitimate' sources. Please produce them. Yeah an unrepentant terrorist as a professor. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63 Well, clearly the board of directors at the University of Chicago screwed up, you should go to them and show them this article right now so he can be fired for being a terrorist. And this is a guy Obama calls a respected mainstream member of society... Please find me a source for this that is clearly not a slanderous conservative website or a slanderous conservative YouTube video. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 So all you have to do is claim it's biased and you don't have to refute it at all? That's cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Uh, when the source draws its own contrived and slanted conclusions about what it reports rather that just stating the facts, then yeah, it's biased. I want a definitive, unbiased source that says "Barack Obama considers Bill Ayers a friend." If it's so obvious that he is, why is it so hard to come up with a reliable source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 There's no such thing as an unbiased source. Everyone has an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 There's no such thing as an unbiased source. Everyone has an opinion.However, adding that opinion to the news story is optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Sure, but I'm not naive enough to think that being friends with someone who was once a radical makes that person exactly the same as his friend. I try to base my opinions on something more than that.I was being sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I must've misread. Think everyone's serious these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 It's okay I did think it slightly humorous that you took my comment at face value considering my avatar...and my signature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inyri Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I know you're pro-Obama, but that's no reason to believe you (or anyone else) can't be objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 http://www.webloggin.com/cnn-admits-that-obama-lied-about-ayers/a) It's a ****ing blog. b) another link: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=44114731&searchid=b9906e30-7bd2-4c43-8f6e-6785b31b13c8 You just linked to a video that said Obama was 8 at the time Ayers was with the Weather Underground. another link: Hey look a video with a bunch of Republicans talking about how horrible Ayers is and how Obama lives down the street from him and saw him at parties for education reform a few times. Yeah an unrepentant terrorist as a professor. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63 And this is a guy Obama calls a respected mainstream member of society... At this point in time, he kinda is. He advocates education reform and holds parties/fundraisers for it and is a professor at a respectable university. Also Ayers gave $200 to Obama's campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 Uh, when the source draws its own contrived and slanted conclusions about what it reports rather that just stating the facts, then yeah, it's biased. http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/06/videos-the-ayers-connection/ That has videos in it with Obama's campaign, look if there isn't anything to my statements the Obama Campaign wouldn't be all over protesting it. I want a definitive, unbiased source that says "Barack Obama considers Bill Ayers a friend." If it's so obvious that he is, why is it so hard to come up with a reliable source? Because finding a source that isn't biased one way or the other is practically impossible these days. Seriously can you provide a reputable source that would disprove me. http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/10/07/mitchell-ayers-distraction-gibbs-obama-didnt-know-he-was-terrorist Another Article: http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Ax_on_Ayers.html "Bill Ayers lives in his neighborhood. Their kids attend the same school," he said. "They're certainly friendly, they know each other, as anyone whose kids go to school together." That is present tense, not past tense which even then is stretching. As much as I don't care for the British Media: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/deadlineusa/2008/feb/26/obamaandbillayers Ayers' son Malik is roughly my age (27), his son Zayd is three years older, and Rhodes Scholar Chesa Boudin, Ayers and wife Bernadine Dohrn's foster son, is also roughly my age. I know this because I went to summer camp with Malik and Chesa when we were little boys, at Ramapo Country Day Camp right across the Hudson from New York City. Ayers held a teaching post at Columbia that year. Obama's daughters are ages 6 and 9 respectively. Article with some relevance dealing with another Radical Association which ties back to Bill Ayers: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/another-close-obama-associate-is-caught.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/obama-mccain-po.html http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-ayers-schools-for-radicals.html Another Article which is accusing the Associated Press of outright lieing: http://www.aim.org/aim-column/ap-lies-about-obamas-red-mentor/ These articles quite frankly are no less biased than the left wing mainstream media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Article with some relevance dealing with another Radical Association which ties back to Bill Ayers: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/10/another-close-obama-associate-is-caught.html http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07/obama-mccain-po.html http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/obama-ayers-schools-for-radicals.html Once again, they're all just dead-set on smearing Obama's campaign. Another Article which is accusing the Associated Press of outright lieing: http://www.aim.org/aim-column/ap-lies-about-obamas-red-mentor/[/Quote] Accusations? Can they actually be proven? These articles quite frankly are no less biased than the left wing mainstream media. That's because they're the right-wing mainstream media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 7, 2008 Author Share Posted October 7, 2008 So let me get this straight articles that link to videos of Obama's campaign manager finally admitting to Obama knowing Ayers and changing his story isn't a valid news source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 look if there isn't anything to my statements the Obama Campaign wouldn't be all over protesting it.You're right. It only makes sense to sit back and let your opponent call you a terrorist without stepping up and calling them a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 You're right. It only makes sense to sit back and let your opponent call you a terrorist without stepping up and calling them a liar. what was it called during the Kerry campaign? Swiftboating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I think "getting swiftboated" would be more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 If I hear Hannity say "unrepentant terrorist" one more time, I'll either barf or turn it into a drinking game. We'll all be plastered in 12 minutes or so. only for those of legal age of course I want to play! - Cz Come on over, I'll bring out the 151 rum. --Jae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totenkopf Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well, if we hear either candidate drone on about "change", we'll be plastered even faster. The more things change......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 You're right. It only makes sense to sit back and let your opponent call you a terrorist without stepping up and calling them a liar. They said he pals around with a terrorist, last time I checked Bill Ayers and his wife are terrorists and he's associated with them. So there is something there, so if there wasn't any more there Obama should just come out and explain honestly what was going on. Problem is he hasn't been honest about it, he's out and out lied about it. If I hear Hannity say "unrepentant terrorist" one more time, I'll either barf or turn it into a drinking game. We'll all be plastered in 12 minutes or so. Thing is Sean Hannity has been pointing this out for 23 months, nearly two years. At first people thought he'd lost it, but as people have done their research, they've found that Sean was telling the truth, something I suspected for a while. I've read a few books by Sean Hannity, he has a tendency to source things to the extreme, at least three sources per accusation that he makes, sometimes all the way up to twelve sources or more. The sources were local papers, public records, etc. He doesn't make accusations unless he has things to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well, if we hear either candidate drone on about "change", we'll be plastered even faster. The more things change......... @Garfield--I know he's found sources for Ayers. However, in 23 months you'd figure he'd be able to at least find a different adjective now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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