How to close Guantanamo?

[EnderWiggin]

  GarfieldJL said:

You want to complain about human rights, why don't I see you raising issue about China's prison system or the Iranian Justice system?

 

Before you began.... educating us in Kavar's, I'm pretty sure we had a thread about China's human rights, or at least talked about it during the Olympics. So, in fact, I do complain about China/Iran, but seeing as this thread's title is 'How to close Guantanamo," I figure it would be rude to derail it to talk about other, equally immoral things.

  Garfy said:

They are also fanatics that are bent on killing any American they can.

 

HUMAN fanatics.

 

_EW_

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  Tommycat said:

Negative. Terrorists can be easily defined by their actions of targeting civilians, and using civilians as cover. The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

 

 

Failing to follow the rules of warfare as defined by the Geneva Conventions places them in the category of terrorists.

 

  GarfieldJL said:

You want to complain about human rights, why don't I see you raising issue about China's prison system or the Iranian Justice system?

 

 

 

First of all, these guys were shooting at our soldiers in Afghanistan and they weren't wearing any uniform, technically we could have just shot them as spies.

 

 

 

They are also fanatics that are bent on killing any American they can.

 

thank god we can get away with torture on a technicality

[jonathan7]

  GarfieldJL said:

You want to complain about human rights, why don't I see you raising issue about China's prison system or the Iranian Justice system?

 

This has already been addressed in thread - given many people here are American, they can actually change how there government acts - they can't really do much about China. However, if you want to be the 'good guys' you have to act like the 'good guys' having Gitmo is not acting like the 'good guys' its acting like everyone else.

[mimartin]

  GarfieldJL said:

You want to complain about human rights, why don't I see you raising issue about China's prison system or the Iranian Justice system?[/Quote] Have you ever seen me praise either?

 

Call me selfish, I just happen to care about my country more that Iran or China.

 

  GarfieldJL said:

First of all, these guys were shooting at our soldiers in Afghanistan and they weren't wearing any uniform, technically we could have just shot them as spies.[/Quote] Are we sure J7 hasn't taken over GarfieldJL's user name. This sounds like British troops talking about American troops during our fight for independence.

 

How do you know they were not Farmers turned in for their bounty?

 

Please explain how you could charge those capture such as Jamil al-Banna as a spy. He was not wearing a uniform, guess he is a spy.

  GarfieldJL said:

They are also fanatics that are bent on killing any American they can.

Prove it. In a court of law. That is all I am asking.

[GarfieldJL]

  jonathan7 said:

This has already been addressed in thread - given many people here are American, they can actually change how there government acts - they can't really do much about China. However, if you want to be the 'good guys' you have to act like the 'good guys' having Gitmo is not acting like the 'good guys' its acting like everyone else.

 

Well problem with the argument they are giving is that the accommodations are better at Gitmo than the US Prison system. Their living conditions are arguably better than what the guards get.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  GarfieldJL said:

Well problem with the argument they are giving is that the accommodations are better at Gitmo than the US Prison system. Their living conditions are arguably better than what the guards get.

saying the detainees are being tortured in a classy prison cell isn't a very convincing argument.

[GarfieldJL]

  jmac7142 said:

saying the detainees are being tortured in a classy prison cell isn't a very convincing argument.

 

Very few of the detainees were tortured, and those that were were extremely high up the command structure of Al Qaeda, it was a situation where lives were at stake and several terror attacks were thwarted thanks to the information gained.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  GarfieldJL said:

Very few of the detainees were tortured, and those that were were extremely high up the command structure of Al Qaeda, it was a situation where lives were at stake and several terror attacks were thwarted thanks to the information gained.

you have no way of knowing any of this.

[Tommycat]

  jmac7142 said:

you have no way of knowing any of this.

 

Despite the fact that some here appear to believe I'm on the pro torture side, I think the real issue is that there is any torture at all. While I agree with the detainment, I disagree with torture.

 

All of the detainees have been given tribunals to determine their status as combattants. Though really they should use the 190-8 instead of the rather arbitrary CSRT.

 

As for Jamil al-Banna:

While it isn't enough to hold a person(it's enough to at least look at him), he was close to Abu Qatada a known associate of al-Qaeda. Thin, but at least there was a reason.

[Astor]

  GarfieldJL said:

Well problem with the argument they are giving is that the accommodations are better at Gitmo than the US Prison system. Their living conditions are arguably better than what the guards get.

 

So, going by your statement, I trust you have first-hand experience of everything you've described.

 

That is -

 

1. You must have spent time in a US Prison Cell.

2. You must also have spent time in 'Gitmo'.

3. You must have also spent time as a guard there.

 

If not, how can you possibly report on the conditions there, other than hearing from either the Defense Department, or whatever reporters and Journalists which are allowed in there (who are no doubt paid by the Government to write favourable things)?

[GarfieldJL]

If you had paid attention to Fox News at all which didn't have an ax to grind when it comes to President Bush, they have had reporters there several times.

[Astor]

  GarfieldJL said:

If you had paid attention to Fox News at all which didn't have an ax to grind when it comes to President Bush, they have had reporters there several times.

 

...And i'll bet that they're only allowed there in the first place because they promise not to say bad things about it.

[Adavardes]

  GarfieldJL said:

If you had paid attention to Fox News at all which didn't have an ax to grind when it comes to President Bush, they have had reporters there several times.

 

Because you're so good at paying attention to all those "liberal-tilt news sources" out there, and listening to what they have to say.

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  GarfieldJL said:

If you had paid attention to Fox News at all which didn't have an ax to grind when it comes to President Bush, they have had reporters there several times.

yep, and i'll bet the guards there walked them around the torture facilities and showed them every bit of the prison there.

[GarfieldJL]

  jmac7142 said:

yep, and i'll bet the guards there walked them around the torture facilities and showed them every bit of the prison there.

 

[sarcasm]And yes here is the Iron Maiden over on your left[/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, that was Abu Grabe (sp?) that had incidents of torture and those people involved were dealt with. (not sure who all got convicted but the point remains)

[jonathan7]

Eh?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/09/guantanamo.humanrights

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8090

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/gitmo.detainees/index.html

 

Do you really want me to continue?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  GarfieldJL said:

[sarcasm]And yes here is the Iron Maiden over on your left[/sarcasm]

 

Seriously, that was Abu Grabe (sp?) that had incidents of torture and those people involved were dealt with. (not sure who all got convicted but the point remains)

yeah, all the low level guards who were ordered to torture people got charged. and if you think torture is restricted to just abu ghraib that's pretty naive.

[jrrtoken]

  GarfieldJL said:

Seriously, that was Abu Grabe (sp?) that had incidents of torture and those people involved were dealt with. (not sure who all got convicted but the point remains)

How do you know that it didn't happen elsewhere, such as Guantanamo?

[GarfieldJL]

  PastramiX said:

How do you know that it didn't happen elsewhere, such as Guantanamo?

 

To turn it around how do you know they did?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

  GarfieldJL said:

To turn it around how do you know they did?

 

  jonathan7 said:

Eh?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/09/guantanamo.humanrights

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8090

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/gitmo.detainees/index.html

 

Do you really want me to continue?

 

woah hey look at that

[Astor]

  mur said:

Or' date=' more precisely, what to do with the inmates?[/quote']

 

To finally, and perhaps potentially answer Murph's original question:

UK Call to Help Close Guantanamo.

[Web Rider]

  Astor_Kaine said:

To finally, and perhaps potentially answer Murph's original question:

UK Call to Help Close Guantanamo.

 

While I realize that not all Gitmo inmates are terrorists, I don't think it's wise to "resettle" the ones that are in countries that are already having difficulty with their Muslim populations.

[GarfieldJL]

  jonathan7 said:

Eh?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/09/guantanamo.humanrights

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8090

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/18/gitmo.detainees/index.html

 

Do you really want me to continue?

 

If those are your star sources, your case is in real trouble. Considering, I don't believe any of them have even been to Gitmo in the first place. And some of these stories you're bringing up were outright proven false.

 

  Quote

WASHINGTON — Newsweek magazine on Monday retracted an article alleging abuse of the Koran at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility which sparked deadly anti-U.S. protests in Afghanistan and other Islamic countries.

-- http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/news/337333/all

 

Corroborating Source

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156755,00.html

[The Doctor]

Yet you, who has also never been to Gitmo, are enlightened enough to know that

  Garfy said:

Very few of the detainees were tortured, and those that were were extremely high up the command structure of Al Qaeda, it was a situation where lives were at stake and several terror attacks were thwarted thanks to the information gained.

 

[jrrtoken]

  GarfieldJL said:

If those are your star sources, your case is in real trouble. Considering, I don't believe any of them have even been to Gitmo in the first place.

Then please explain, in great detail, the entire Guantanamo prison complex, from its cells to its mess halls. Seeing as you probably didn't read any of the articles, you'd find that in the second paragraph of the CNN one states that the research was carried out by an independent party, not by CNN themselves. And I'm still laughing, seeing as you're completely tossing out the truth, even when it's been backed up by three separate sources.