Its just an mmo now?

[The_Catto]

Well, that KotOR and TSL got old after several (and I mean several ) playthroughs is certainly true, but I have heard very little mention of anyone having finished an MMO more than once, if even once. Though, if this one has a discernable start, middle and end - coupled with an engaging story, it may even be possible...

 

If that's the case then I will pre-order it and make sure I get it the day it comes out. But because it's an MMO, I highly doubt it will. The start - middle - end part I mean. Of course, it'll have an engaging story; it's set in the Star Wars universe. What other story could be more engaging

[Jedi Master Revan]

Just so. The developers announced that they intended the MMO to be KotOR 3 to...some other number. Anyway, it is essentially KotOR 3.

 

There are several rants on the point at adamqd's link.

 

Erm the new mmo isn't K.O.T.O.R 3 there producers never clarified that it was and we all know that the new mmo isn't K.O.T.O.R 3

[Khadmus]

As a Blizzard semi-fan and player of World of Warcraft, I can vouch for the impact of SRPGs. MMOs have their strengths, and for many people it's well worth the monthly fee. SRPGs have separate strengths, the kind of strength that a novel has; and KotOR is based on that. MMOs are too disjointed and hectic to deliver the sort of impact I admire KotOR or Morrowind for; with too many people to retain a reasonable suspension of disbelief.

With that said, the MMO is most definitely not KotOR 3. Maybe not even KotOR anything. It will most likely stand on its own merits as a representative of Star Wars. It may even be a good game worth playing and not just another random MMO that's not going to even vaguely compete with the iconic WoW. But it's not KotOR 3 (which I expect to be released later, after a few MMO expansions; set between the beginning of the MMO and the end of KotOR 2)

[SW01]

Erm the new mmo isn't K.O.T.O.R 3 there producers never clarified that it was and we all know that the new mmo isn't K.O.T.O.R 3

 

With that said, the MMO is most definitely not KotOR 3. Maybe not even KotOR anything. It will most likely stand on its own merits as a representative of Star Wars. It may even be a good game worth playing and not just another random MMO that's not going to even vaguely compete with the iconic WoW. But it's not KotOR 3 (which I expect to be released later, after a few MMO expansions; set between the beginning of the MMO and the end of KotOR 2)

 

It has been said, by the BioWare developers, in fact, that the game is KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and beyond.

 

Oh, and on the SWTOR section of this board:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=193320&highlight=Kotor

 

[Khadmus]

The devs have said that they are making this game instead of a KotOR 3. This has been discussed in other threads so I am closing this one.

Emphasis mine. The data so far seems ambiguous.

 

While they could certainly call the MMO KotOR 3 (which I doubt they will do officially; since the prospect for a real KotOR 3 could revive flagging MMO sales in the future), it won't be representative of the KotOR name. Why? Because what KotOR has become known for the special impact it delivers as a CRPG story in the Star Wars Realm; and a MMO will not retain that.

[Astor]

While they could certainly call the MMO KotOR 3 (which I doubt they will do officially; since the prospect for a real KotOR 3 could revive flagging MMO sales in the future), it won't be representative of the KotOR name. Why? Because what KotOR has become known for the special impact it delivers as a CRPG story in the Star Wars Realm; and a MMO will not retain that.

 

Which won't be known for certain until it has been released - Bioware has a great history of making groundbreaking games - this could be one more.

 

Of course, there's no evidence for either case, but people don't seem to let that get in the way of their bashing it before it's out yet (not directed at you, but a lot of people seem happier to scream that they've been betrayed when they haven't tried giving it a chance).

[Darth Avlectus]

Not that it makes any difference, but K1 is set 4000 years before the Empire.

 

And, yeah, TKA: K1, K2, K3, and so on in one package is just a lame excuse. Remind me of the alleged reason for TFU not being on PC.

 

Looks like another buildup. I admire tenacity and persistence of Uncle George and bioware--in fact people underestimate this trait quite a bit in the real world I noticed. Tenacity =/=Talent, but often times it = results and (more or less) success. While I cannot give SW games a perfect 10 honestly, they seem to have just enough pazzazz and material to keep its core base enthralled for a time.

 

Of course if we did a petition, it may not change something, but it would at least show these guys the numbers. They would see what profit they got from the game, a list of individuals who were disapproving with the MMO, and who knows numbers might talk. Yeah I might get it if it were a non pay per month game. I too have Xbox Live and pay yearly. I'd hate to have another game I'd have to pay a fee for. Yes if they got it to where it could be played on Xbox Live, or on the computer without a monthy fee I might consider it.

 

Good point considering the economy SUCKS currently.

 

Certainly showing numbers and voices is one way to let your general consensus be known...just not sure if I see disagreements being of any major influence either.

 

It just seems like such a leap. They say they are doing this because they can tell more stories in an MMO rather than having to do a K3, K4, and so on. But you'd have a lot more if you didn't spread the time so far apart. If you had more games you'd be able to capitalize on the timeline. <snip>

 

Well, yes and no, it kind of depends on how you toss it.

300 years in the future does make quite a leap, admittedly. It kind of leaves things ambiguous and open...just kind of like 1,2, skip a few--now here we are 299, 300 years later. Leaves ya hangin'.

 

On the other hand, many of us bring expectations to the table (subconsciously) and are disappointed when it turns out some way we don't like or want. So imagine the stigma and destruction to the original 2 KOTOR games. Adding lots of space in timeliness does leave open the realms of possibility so that it can once again easily (reasonably) accommodate the player's choices with some validations. Although there is some confirmation as to canon this is usually kept minimal I noticed, just merely "editorial necessity" according to Leland Chee.

 

Keep in mind each game had a different main individual, too.

If this is 'the next installment', I can't imagine that the stories of Revan and The Exile would just simply dissolve. Just more intrigue, ambiguity, and mystification added to it.

 

We need something that resembles KOTOR to get us more grounded in the galaxy before we can accept the new changes. We need some constants.

I think it will, it'd have to. Still, it's a real chancy thing.

 

It will cause fractures in the community. There can be no doubt there.

 

It would be a separation of: those who are able and willing; those who are not both. To be honest, if past performance is indicative of the future--its prospect doesn't look good, especially if they are trying to reach out to other MMO audiences. I'd suggest they

1) Take a look at failures of the past--theirs and their potential competition

2) A little bit (more) of honey to the game media bees isn't bad if you are trying to promote yourself, maybe fund raisers too

3) See what is so appealing about the MMO world, what is not, and consider how else you might ease the transition for their core base

4) have as little administrative politics as possible (AHEM).

5) keep real world politics out of it as much as possible, after all this is Star Wars, not Senate Wars

(--though I wouldn't mind seeing another episode of C-span where they got in a brawl so I can record it and spoof it on youtube, or seeing them all whip out lightsabers and blasters)

 

Best case scenario is that people who play it will either:

1) be satisfied and it'll get a little more vacant around here

2) burn out in some form or another, maybe return here if not burnt out altogether

3) say "eh" and remain relatively unchanged elsewhere.

 

I'm not gonna be playing just because of the fee. I can't afford to pay monthly for a game I'm only gonna play for about half an hour every few days. If I'm lucky I'll have time to play everyday but I doubt it.

 

If its free on the other hand then I might play because it looks interesting. But I still don't like MMOs. I've tried a few and didn't like it. To play an MMO you need to have at least two hours a day to devote to them, otherwise its just not worth it.

chalk up another against

 

I want a f***ing Knight Of The Old Republic III damn it!

Ever consider making a mod of it?

 

I actually think it is a good idea to not include any characters from the Kotor cannon. Because then the dialogue writers would probably have to mention Revan and his/hers gender (Likewise with the Exile) which would effectively end our large cannon debates. This way we can still imagine both player characters as male/female ls/ds. At least this way it will keep everyone happy

Basically what I said above in response to SD Nihil.

 

And once again another great series is comletely dishonored

damn mmo.....

Chalk up another against.

 

(hmm...I wonder if a poll should be started to get early numbers?...)

 

Today with the technology I'm sure we can emulate voices if they didn't want to do voices for the game.

Actually I can come quite close to sounding like Darth Sion using Audacity if I add an Australian accent to my voice.

 

To beat a dead horse and for illustrative purposes...... (I'm actually neutral for pro vs con--it's sound strategy to act only when the time is right.)

 

Yes over time you'd close the chapters of Revan and the Exile and start new adventures. You dont need an MMO to do that.

<snip>

What I'm sayin is mods allow the fans to grow and give life to their community. MMOs which are totally controlled by the game's company that lifespan and content is solely controled by them.

Good point.

Umm... I had thought that TOR took place 300 years after the events in Kotor2?

 

Am I mistaken?

No. You are quite correct, just merely clerical error on the others' parts.

 

 

Playing with friends isn't always a perk, when you friends act like goofballs and ruin everything.

Which is why I no longer do social groups elsewhere from here--example Sword Play club:

a friend of mine did endless rickrolls, and another member didn't know when to just SHUT UP. Wound up pissing off the senior members who had been doing this sport serious for 30+ years. How embarrassing, and next competitive meet, no rank gains for my group. Whoops

 

I tried Jedi Outcast over a LAN--no internet. Even 1 in 10 of people you know can *ruin* it for everyone.

 

It has been said, by the BioWare developers, in fact, that the game is KotOR 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and beyond.

 

Oh, and on the SWTOR section of this board:

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?t=193320&highlight=Kotor

 

 

Ah good. Well, we can make KOTOR 3 related stuff there while continuing discussion of the MMO here...or vice versa, or both... whatever.

[Cygnus Q'ol]

Personally, I could give a rats ass what happened to Revan.

 

I just want to jump back to that timeframe and wield my saber again. I will enjoy the fact of having more jedi around as well.

 

Force Unleashed left such a bad taste in my mouth, I almost denounced the force altogether.

 

I know I won't be able to resist once it comes out, MMO or not. So, why fight it.

 

 

It is useless to resist...

[Darth Avlectus]

Personally, I could give a rats ass what happened to Revan.

 

I just want to jump back to that timeframe and wield my saber again. I will enjoy the fact of having more jedi around as well.

 

Force Unleashed left such a bad taste in my mouth, I almost denounced the force altogether.

 

I know I won't be able to resist once it comes out, MMO or not. So, why fight it.

 

 

It is useless to resist...

 

Chalk one up 'for'.

 

If you have the bags and bags of money to throw at it in this toilet bowl economy, that's your prerogative.

 

Curious:

What makes you believe it's going to be worth it? Wouldn't you at least be skeptical? I mean, considering another recent SW installment almost made you walk away from the force...something had to be a great disappointment.

 

If it proves to not be a hassle to subscribe to, and it looks pretty solid as a game, maybe I'll go for it. --Just not at first since I've taken a leap of faith only to land on my face one too many times. You can only be disappointed so many times before something starts to make you say--wait, will this really be worth it, or be another trough of suckiness and disappointment?

 

 

Again I'm neutral. I just want to inquire as to why? (of you fellow forumers who are FOR playing it when it debuts). What do you think will make it all 'worth it'?

 

Some of you just wanna play--hey, no big deal, we have our reasons.

[Astor]

I think that people should at least make use of the 10/20/30 day when it is available - simply refusing to play something because it's 'Not KOTOR3' or it's not 'What I want' is rather silly.

 

I've enjoyed many games I never thought i'd play simply through playing a demo, or a trial.

 

At the moment, there's no way of knowing what the game is going to be like - we've only got screenshots to go on - and they can only tell us so much. And this is coming from someone who was vehemently opposed to the game in the first place.

[Tommycat]

What I can't understand is the people that say definately no. I mean you can do the trial for free. For a single player game you'd have to buy it to find out if you'd like it. I mean I understand not wanting to pay the monthly fee. Granted I pay for 3 accounts on SWG. OOooo a whole $45 a month(3 crafters, 2 combat toons and an entertainer). But to not even give it a chance at all because it doesn't fit your narrow vision of what it should be. It would be like people not playing Mass Effect because it wasn't an MMO(incidentally it was very MMO-like).

[Master Zionosis]

What I can't understand is the people that say definately no. I mean you can do the trial for free. For a single player game you'd have to buy it to find out if you'd like it. I mean I understand not wanting to pay the monthly fee. Granted I pay for 3 accounts on SWG. OOooo a whole $45 a month(3 crafters, 2 combat toons and an entertainer). But to not even give it a chance at all because it doesn't fit your narrow vision of what it should be. It would be like people not playing Mass Effect because it wasn't an MMO(incidentally it was very MMO-like).

 

QFT.

 

 

People seem to bash this game so hard, because it's KotOR:Online not K3. It's beginning to get really old... I mean hardly any details have been released and it's already the PHAIL game of the century. Get over yourself people.... If you don't like it, fine, don't play it when it comes out, it's a simple as that. No need to make it your life goal to verbally abuse a game that isn't released.

 

EDIT:

 

Which won't be known for certain until it has been released - Bioware has a great history of making groundbreaking games - this could be one more.

 

Of course, there's no evidence for either case, but people don't seem to let that get in the way of their bashing it before it's out yet (not directed at you, but a lot of people seem happier to scream that they've been betrayed when they haven't tried giving it a chance).

 

Sorry, have to QFT this as well

[GeneralPloKoon]

What I can't understand is the people that say definately no. I mean you can do the trial for free. For a single player game you'd have to buy it to find out if you'd like it. I mean I understand not wanting to pay the monthly fee. Granted I pay for 3 accounts on SWG. OOooo a whole $45 a month(3 crafters, 2 combat toons and an entertainer). But to not even give it a chance at all because it doesn't fit your narrow vision of what it should be. It would be like people not playing Mass Effect because it wasn't an MMO(incidentally it was very MMO-like).

 

Not everyone wants to play online and with other people. Single-player games may not last as long as MMOS but they sure do allow privacy!

[Tommycat]

Not everyone wants to play online and with other people. Single-player games may not last as long as MMOS but they sure do allow privacy!

 

For quite a while I played SWG without interacting with other players. When I wanted to I did interact. Plus they have already said there is content for those that don't want to deal with other people. That's not even a new announcement from them. That was from the first announcement. Subsequent announcements have said the same thing in different ways. They mentioned that even amongst MMO players, a substantal number of them don't like dealing with other players, which is part of the driving force behind WHY they are designing it the way they are.

[Khadmus]

I'm not saying "definitely no". That's an extreme viewpoint that I'm pretty sure has already been weeded out. I'm simply expressing my severe doubts that this will continue the feel of the first two KotOR games; or that this will acquire a definitive market share. It certainly could do the former, and it will certainly be successful without the latter (i.e. moderate success, not great success); and it will probably be a better alternative to SWG. But like y'all are saying, Bioware is a nice company (better suited for MMO design than Blizzard was when WoW was in production), and might make this an excellent game. I'm just inclined to be pessimistic.

[Darth Avlectus]

I think that people should at least make use of the 10/20/30 day when it is available - simply refusing to play something because it's 'Not KOTOR3' or it's not 'What I want' is rather silly.

That is sensible, and moreover I think everyone does that.

 

Though it is just as silly to buy a new computer just so you can play a new game coming out. --Certainly makes people wonder about your priorities in your life.

 

1 caveat side note from experience: that's also a way to get spyware using the freebie trials and not subscribing. So as long as you don't mind cleaning this up, maybe restoring your computer...go for it.

 

I've enjoyed many games I never thought i'd play simply through playing a demo, or a trial.

 

At the moment, there's no way of knowing what the game is going to be like - we've only got screenshots to go on - and they can only tell us so much. And this is coming from someone who was vehemently opposed to the game in the first place.

 

I was never vehemently opposed to it--still not. Reasonable, yes as far as gameplay with the actual game itself. So far as with other people and attracting their business? That's something else.

 

What I can't understand is the people that say definately no. I mean you can do the trial for free. For a single player game you'd have to buy it to find out if you'd like it. I mean I understand not wanting to pay the monthly fee. Granted I pay for 3 accounts on SWG. OOooo a whole $45 a month(3 crafters, 2 combat toons and an entertainer). But to not even give it a chance at all because it doesn't fit your narrow vision of what it should be. It would be like people not playing Mass Effect because it wasn't an MMO(incidentally it was very MMO-like).

 

Well, absolutisms do make you look foolish if you commit to them without being fully researched. Far as the game itself--I'm not saying definitely no. Its impact on the community--that depends. Can have various effects.

 

Certainly a free trial would be welcomed IF and ONLY IF they don't pull the same crap AOL pulled on many people (including me)--registering you twice and saying you can have the free 3 month trial once I have paid for 3 months already... That is bull-s***.

 

I'm not saying "definitely no". That's an extreme viewpoint that I'm pretty sure has already been weeded out. I'm simply expressing my severe doubts that this will continue the feel of the first two KotOR games;

As was I.

or that this will acquire a definitive market share. It certainly could do the former, and it will certainly be successful without the latter (i.e. moderate success, not great success); and it will probably be a better alternative to SWG. But like y'all are saying, Bioware is a nice company (better suited for MMO design than Blizzard was when WoW was in production), and might make this an excellent game. I'm just inclined to be pessimistic.

 

I'm with you on that. After all, the core audience and the target audience is the main thing. I'm doubtful of the performance aspect. While next gen console wars have given the marketeers some hope what with fickle gamers and all--I notice the genres and product lines themselves generate quite the loyalty regardless. As evidenced there are retro gamer buffs like me. Performance wise it might suffer since others are quite attached to many of the popular games mentioned.

 

The trick here I think would be to catch future gamers while young, yet still appeal to their loyal fanbase enough to keep them interested.

 

Just look at any long running series or multi series franchises--heck look at all of them; you are bound to find examples of both success and failure. Not just MMO--please.

---

While they could make better games in every technical aspect than what is out there currently, it still comes down to how to capture interest and keep it of your audience. My question this early on is HOW they are going to do that.

[Tommycat]

See, I just have a hard time with saying I definately won't. Actually it seems easier to say I'll definately play it. At least play it enough to know for myself if it's worth paying a monthly fee. With the game not even out yet, we have nothing to indicate it isn't worth playing at all. We have no official reviews, or customer reviews. We have only sketchy knowledge of any game mechanics, and hints of story.

[Jae Onasi]

Not everyone wants to play online and with other people. Single-player games may not last as long as MMOS but they sure do allow privacy!

I play both Guild Wars and Lord of the Rings Online. While it's definitely easier to do certain missions or quests with others, both games are doable for the most part completely by yourself--you always have the option to turn off all chat channels entirely if you prefer. Guild Wars has heroes and henchmen that you can add to the party if you don't have enough 'live people'. The games are definitely more fun with real people, however, and if you're chatting at the same time while playing, it's a blast. Imagine how it would be if you're playing Revan, one of your friends is playing Carth, another is playing Bastila, and you're all just beating the snot out of the Sith a lot faster and a lot better than the AI that controls Carth and Bastila in the game.

[GeneralPloKoon]

Even with playing quests by yourslef your are still in an online community, and in the case of TOR what you do might effect REAL players, I just don't like that...

[Ibelin]

I will be told about the stories near after KOTOR2 in an MMO?

[Darth Avlectus]

At least we won't have villains called Darth Gout--or will we?

[Tommycat]

I play both Guild Wars and Lord of the Rings Online. While it's definitely easier to do certain missions or quests with others, both games are doable for the most part completely by yourself--you always have the option to turn off all chat channels entirely if you prefer. Guild Wars has heroes and henchmen that you can add to the party if you don't have enough 'live people'. The games are definitely more fun with real people, however, and if you're chatting at the same time while playing, it's a blast. Imagine how it would be if you're playing Revan, one of your friends is playing Carth, another is playing Bastila, and you're all just beating the snot out of the Sith a lot faster and a lot better than the AI that controls Carth and Bastila in the game.

 

It gets even better when you're on something like Ventrillo(voice chat). When you get in a big guild and people are in multiple vent channels. You're working together, and really role playing more like your character. It reminds me more of the days when I used to PnP roleplay with friends. It can be so much more fun when you are talking with friends around the globe. Kinda like how it gets here. You can enjoy talking with those friends, while at the same time you are working on your game. You're building your character up. Asking for help and advice from fellow players. My fellow guildies are almost as close as my real life friends. And most of them are going to TOR so we'll already have the advantage of the guild going in.

[Hallucination]

I play both Guild Wars and Lord of the Rings Online.

And I remember back when you'd tell me "lol hall u is sto0pid for payin per monht lololol." What is the world coming to?

[SD Nihil]

At least we won't have villains called Darth Gout--or will we?

 

Haven't you heard the phrase from your mouth to Bioware's ears. Gee thanks. lol.

 

Even with playing quests by yourslef your are still in an online community, and in the case of TOR what you do might effect REAL players, I just don't like that...

 

Yeah like if someone does something dumb like tells the captain of some Assault cruiser that he has enough skill points to pilot the ship, but doesn't and crashes into a planet killing a bunch of aliens at some very important diplomatic summit. Which shifts the balance of power to either the Republic or Sith and now we have to go on a hunt for that assult ship crasher. If his health bar isn't already at zero yet. But if he has enough force or health packs I guess that isn't an issue. Just imagine it. We'd have people going around trying to kill each other rather than playin the quests. lol.

 

With such a dynamic universe it will be vulnerable to any nut job or joker who wants to sabotage things and destroy everyone's hard work. Not intending to, but out of pure ignorance. oui. lol.

 

Yeah that would be cool if you could find your other buddy and kill him. But I'm not sure if you can kill people really in MMOs. I wouldn't know since I've never played them. Don't you just end up back at some starting point or something? I wouldn't think you'd be permanently eliminated or something.

 

Along with TOR not being one you have to pay for each month, another thing that would get me to play would be this. If you could not just play as Jedi. I want to play as a cyborg alien like Grevous, or specifically as an assin droid made to look like a protocool droid to sabatoge meetings and sent on missions to assinate Republic or Sith higher ups. Also, missions to where you take control of other droids remotely and use them to from light years away sabatoge ships, meetings, bases, etc. I'm getting carried away with my imagination huh?

[Lord of Hunger]

While I do not wish to start a flame war, I really fail to see why everyone wants a KOTOR III so much. TSL (especially once TSLRP is released) brings completion to that story.

 

Honestly, there's nothing left to do! The Republic is saved, the Exchange on Nar Shaddaa is crippled, most if not all of the Wounds in the Force are sealed and silenced, the Sith Triumvirate is dead and with it the "False" Sith are extinct, and the Exile has gone off to help out Revan. What factor is left to explore? The True Sith, but when it comes down to it, that's not enough for a KOTOR game to be honest. When making one's own KOTOR 3 conversion mod, one has to invent new problems and frankly it's a stretch to do so.

 

KOTOR 3 would have been a disappointment, and I'm betting in an alternative universe where such a game was released hundreds of fans are demanding an MMO right now and complaining about how "K3 is an absolute failure" and "not worth my $20."