Boston Tea Parties springing up all over country Mainstream Media ignores

[ET Warrior]

Read that post again. I even highlighted part of it for you here.

I appreciate your assistance, cuz I don reed so gud.

 

of course, if we look back at your FIRST statement about income, you said

Why is it that the top 20% of income earners paying 40% of the income tax,

which is why I asked for clarification, as you used both top 20% of income earners, and top 20% of all income earned. As I pointed out, these two numbers are not the same, which sort of muddies the waters.

[kipperthefrog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drinking_the_Kool-Aid

 

Thank You.

[Totenkopf]

I appreciate your assistance, cuz I don reed so gud.

 

Don't worry, I know that already.

 

of course, if we look back at your FIRST statement about income, you said which is why I asked for clarification, as you used both top 20% of income earners, and top 20% of all income earned. As I pointed out, these two numbers are not the same, which sort of muddies the waters.

 

Fair enough. It might have helped had you put both quotes together in asking the question for the sake of clarity. However, that aside, the second figure. Given the size of the overall population, the statements might effectively amount to the same thing. Regardless, if a group of people earn 20% of all income and pay 40% of all income taxes collected, then they have paid more than their fair share as a percentage of income earned for govt services provided. However, with the 20% discrepancy "mystery solved", what is your proposal, exactly?

[ET Warrior]

what is your proposal, exactly?

I don't really feel the need to 'propose' anything. My personal feelings are that those who are in the higher earning brackets can afford to have a higher percentage of their income go toward government services. As I mentioned, those upper echelon earners are STILL in the upper echelon after taxes, and the poor are still trying to feed their children.

 

I recall a conversation in college with a fellow student whose thoughts on taxes were summed up nicely with her statement "If my dad didn't have to pay such high taxes I would've gotten a Viper instead of an Eclipse for my 16th birthday."

 

I had trouble sympathizing.

[Tommycat]

Ah the old "We have to help the poor" argument. Forget that many have never even tried to find work. Forget that some of us actually spent money on educations. Forget that the rich employ or lay off thousands of people. I mean surely the rich just sit back in their mansions and just get money rolling in. It's not that the rich actually own companies like Oracle Corporation or Microsoft. The only people they employ are "yes massa" jobs.

 

There will always be poor. There will always be rich. Tax the rich enough and they move their money where they are taxed the least. They can afford to do so.

[kipperthefrog]

Well, all I have to say is, let the people say what they want in the name of free speech. Holding up signs that say ridiculous things will only be more proof that the fear mongering folk don’t know what they are talking about.

[Totenkopf]

I don't really feel the need to 'propose' anything. My personal feelings are that those who are in the higher earning brackets can afford to have a higher percentage of their income go toward government services. As I mentioned, those upper echelon earners are STILL in the upper echelon after taxes, and the poor are still trying to feed their children.

 

I recall a conversation in college with a fellow student whose thoughts on taxes were summed up nicely with her statement "If my dad didn't have to pay such high taxes I would've gotten a Viper instead of an Eclipse for my 16th birthday."

 

I had trouble sympathizing.

 

You may not, but people who only bitch about something but don't offer any real solution beyond platitudes like "soak the rich" often tend to be ignored. Except maybe on election day.

[True_Avery]

You may not, but people who only bitch about something but don't offer any real solution beyond platitudes like "soak the rich" often tend to be ignored. Except maybe on election day.

While I see where you are coming from, I never quite understood the whole "don't complain unless you have a better idea" mindset, as a complaint or even a bitch can have merit when heard or seen by someone who does have the ability to change something. Why must an opinion be ignored or unheard simply when it does not come with a full fledged, fully written solution to the world's problems?

 

And, lets be honest here, this is a forum srs bsns thread so regardless the talking seems to be ignored on the whole anyway.

[Q]

And, lets be honest here, this is a forum srs bsns thread so regardless the talking seems to be ignored on the whole anyway.

It did kind of become one, didn't it?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Ah the old "We have to help the poor" argument. Forget that many have never even tried to find work. Forget that some of us actually spent money on educations. Forget that the rich employ or lay off thousands of people. I mean surely the rich just sit back in their mansions and just get money rolling in. It's not that the rich actually own companies like Oracle Corporation or Microsoft. The only people they employ are "yes massa" jobs.

 

There will always be poor. There will always be rich. Tax the rich enough and they move their money where they are taxed the least. They can afford to do so.

 

ahhh the old randroid "**** the poor" argument, you almost made me forget that the executives of those companies use their personal bank accounts to fund the company.

[ET Warrior]

You may not, but people who only bitch about something but don't offer any real solution

I'm sorry, I was complaining about what now? I don't recall offering any complaints, merely responding to the complaints of others.

[Achilles]

While I see where you are coming from, I never quite understood the whole "don't complain unless you have a better idea" mindset, as a complaint or even a bitch can have merit when heard or seen by someone who does have the ability to change something. Why must an opinion be ignored or unheard simply when it does not come with a full fledged, fully written solution to the world's problems?

In business school, they teach you that this is the surest way to get blind-sided by problems that everyone knew about except you. I'm sure that concept has application in other venues as well.

[Totenkopf]

I love the oft-trumpeted "Look at the percentage of taxes paid by the rich! No fair no fair!"

 

First of all, rich people make substantially MORE than poor people. If the top 50% of income earners only accounted for 50% of the income tax then the poor would be paying a significant percentage more of their paycheck to income tax than the wealthy. (which seems far more unjust).

 

Further, despite this (apparently) devastatingly heavy taxation the rich are experiencing, they're still richer than the poor people. They have not been taxed into poverty, and can still afford their million dollar yachts to lounge about upon and lament the dire economic straits Obama has put them in.

 

Also, people with low incomes will generally need to keep a larger percentage of their income for those frivolities like food and electricity.

 

Come again? You lodged this complaint (aka bitching) about the way things are. Just b/c you claim it was a response doesn't mean it's not a complaint.

 

@True-- I also get what you're saying. Should a complaint be ignored just b/c it's a complaint, especially if the person has a reasonable point (or at least from their pov)? Problem is, anyone can complain about anything. But if all they do is complain, people start ignoring them or just get ticked and wish they'd go away. One doesn't actually have to have an integrated, fully formed plan to not be dismissed (sometimes you will be anyway), but people are more likely to listen if you have something constuctive to bring to the table. Both in a general conversation and more importantly in RL.

[ET Warrior]

Come again? You lodged this complaint (aka bitching) about the way things are.

As near as I can tell, I am pointing out that the current taxation system is not unfair, for reasons I presented. But if you want to believe I'm bitching about something I suppose that's your prerogative.

[Q]

****ing welfare queens spending my hard earned money on flat screens and 40s

I think that a ridiculous amount of waste could be prevented if people who are deliberately exploiting the system were actually held accountable for defrauding the government.

 

A good start would be the requirement that recipients of federal assistance be American citizens.

ahhh the old randroid "**** the poor" argument

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

[Totenkopf]

As near as I can tell, I am pointing out that the current taxation system is not unfair, for reasons I presented. But if you want to believe I'm bitching about something I suppose that's your prerogative.

 

You saying you believe that the current system is not unfair? Sounds otherwise. Other than that, not sure why you're a little sensitive. Chalk it up to semantics, I suppose.

 

@Q--

[Tommycat]

ahhh the old randroid "**** the poor" argument, you almost made me forget that the executives of those companies use their personal bank accounts to fund the company.

 

Yeah because they don't get a percentage of the profits. Upper management wouldn't cut jobs to increase their profit margin to get a bigger bonus. Shareholders of major corporations look at their bottom line. If they aren't making enough, they demand more profits from the company. Then you get what happened with Oracle. They want more profit, so they lay off 1500 employees and shut down the whole call center that used to handle the support during the day. A bunch of highly trained tech people out of work. But it's only the rich guys that suffer when you tax them. So by all means, tax them some more. Then when even more people are layed off, raise tax some more on the "rich" to make up for the ones now drawing unemployment.

 

And quite frankly the poor in this country are pretty dang well off(speaking of course of the non-working poor, the working poor seem to be the worst off aside from the homeless). Keep in mind I work with the poor. I volunteer a great deal. While some are genuinely trying to improve themselves, the majority seem to be quite happy to waste money on frivolities like jewelry and video games. Granted maybe it's just the viewpoint I have with working with the types of underprivelaged youths.

[jrrtoken]

And quite frankly the poor in this country are pretty dang well off(speaking of course of the non-working poor, the working poor seem to be the worst off aside from the homeless). Keep in mind I work with the poor. I volunteer a great deal. While some are genuinely trying to improve themselves, the majority seem to be quite happy to waste money on frivolities like jewelry and video games. Granted maybe it's just the viewpoint I have with working with the types of underprivelaged youths.

What a jolly stereotype. So, the rich are where they at, because they're hard, honest workers who rode through the system to get where they're at, while the poor are poor, because they're simply lazy? How late 19th century...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_darwinism

[Tommycat]

What a jolly stereotype. So, the rich are where they at, because they're hard, honest workers who rode through the system to get where they're at, while the poor are poor, because they're simply lazy? How late 19th century...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_darwinism

 

MALE-BOVINE-FECAL-MATTER

 

That is NOT what I said. Some choose to stay where they are. Others try to improve themselves. I did not say the rich worked hard. I said nothing about their honesty. In fact I tend to believe a greater percentage of the "rich" fell into money, were at the right place at the right time, or just flat out cheated their way to the top. BUT from my perspective, the ones who are chronicly poor tend to be the ones who make no attempt at improving their state. With hard work and making the right decisions, you can move up from being poor to middle class(notice I am not saying rich). The biggest problem is quite a few have a blame everyone else attitude. A great example of this is my brother and I.

 

Both of us started in the same house, I wasn't even given the opportunities he was. My parents were willing to PAY for him to go to college. He chose to join a gang and become a thug. Both of us at the time we graduated high school were drug addicts. I ended up joining the service. Got cleaned up, learned a skill(useful one... you know, computers). Worked my backside off to claw myself up. I backslid a bit, ended up homeless and on drugs again. Then realized I was better than that and took the skills I had and got work. Meanwhile in his world, he has chosen to stay on that thug path. It's really a sad thing too. He did as well in most subjects as I did, and in fact did better than I did in many of the same classes I took. He was in college level classes in school. He was phenominal at math. But now the only math he does is counting change at a register. I work primarily for one company, and occasionally contract to another institution. I am not by any stretch of the imagination "rich" but I don't go hungry. I am not hurting for cash, but that's because I budget everything(trust me, even when I was making 150k+ a year it was easy to spend above that when I didn't budget). My brother says that it's because everyone is out to get him. He doesn't recognize that the failing is his own doing.

 

I know there are some that are stuck in the situation because of other things out of their control. Those appear to be more of an exception than anything. I don't know every poor person. I know quite a few. I cannot explain away everyone's situation. but I would be willing to bet that a vast majority of them make choices that lead them to where they are.

[Achilles]

What a jolly stereotype. So, the rich are where they at, because they're hard, honest workers who rode through the system to get where they're at, while the poor are poor, because they're simply lazy? How late 19th century...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_darwinism

Oh, don't forget this:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic

 

(i.e. god rewards the righteous with success and punishes the unrighteous with lack thereof. Therefore if you see a poor person, don't feel sorry for them because god made them poor to teach them a lesson).

[mimartin]

Does that mean that people like Madoff and the executives up for bonuses at AIG should be anointed sainthood? God made them rich for some reason.

[Achilles]

That's the flip-side of the argument, yes. I remember being quite shocked at how pervasive this attitude is in our country when I first learned about it in a sociology course back in my early 20's.

 

I'm always a little saddened when I see hints of it in our daily discourse.

[EnderWiggin]

Protestant work ethic in the house!

 

_EW_

[Tommycat]

pffff. Not all hard work is rewarded. But one should always work to improve oneself unless you're completely happy with your station in life. If you don't like being poor, do something to make yourself a better prospect for a better paying job. Education is one thing. Working very hard in your current job is the slowest way to improve your pay.

 

Reasons people choose to be poor are varied. Oh they don't come out and say, "I want to stay poor because..." but they tend to make decisions that end up making them remain poor.