Speak English Or Get Out!

[mimartin]

Tim James who is running for Governor of Alabama has an interesting political advertisement.

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

While I'm against illegal immigration, I find this ridiculous and bordering on racism since it not only punishes illegal aliens, but legal immigrants. If he really believes that not being able to read English road signs, that are “intentionally pictographs” designed to be understandable without reading, was hazardous then he also needs to revolt the licenses of the illiterate. This was roughly 15% of the population of his state in 2003, most likely the same people he is pandering too with this stupidity.

 

Hey Tim James, I have a better idea, if you don’t want illegal aliens to have driver’s licenses, then change that law and don’t punish those that did it the right way and came to this country legally.

 

Thoughts?

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Thoughts?

yes:

Governor of Alabama

[Pavlos]

I don't speak American but this certainly isn't good English:

 

"It makes good sense. Does it to you?"

 

Perhaps he should read a book or two. Also, it's incredibly disorientating that he keeps on walking through the same doorway...

[mur'phon]

Aside from: "After this and the Arizona law, the reps must be really desperate to alienate the fastest growing group in America". No (admitedly, the Arizona law might be more devastating to the police vote, but you get the idea).

[Litofsky]

At any rate, he's an idiot.

[Salzella]

American politics makes our brand of nutter look very tame indeed...

[Totenkopf]

Actually, he makes legitimate points. A common language is part of the glue that holds a country together. Frankly, it's both assinine and discriminatory to only print the test out in 12 languages. What about everyone else who comes here and can't speak or read any of those 12 languages? Having been to several non-english speaking countries, I'd say that if I wanted to live there, the burden would be upon me to learn the native tongue. While english does have some stature as a global lingua franca, you do yourself a disservice by not learning a country's native language (which, like it or not, is english in the USA) as it interferes w/your ability to experience that culture in any meaningful way. It also limits your options. Being multilingual is a great thing at a personal level but insane as a national policy.

[mimartin]

Where did anyone comment that new immigrants should not learn English in this thread?

 

However, English is not an easy language to learn and driving is a very import factor (at least in the South where mass transit is nonexistent) for getting to work and work is an important factor in eating. It may actually be important to allow new legal immigrants to have a driver’s license before they learn to butcher the English language like the rest of us Americans.

 

Since you seem to think learning to read English is important to driving, do you support revoking the lilliterates driver's licence?

 

So the only point I see Tim James having is that he has not thought this out at all.

[mur'phon]

Who says he hasn't? Assuming it brings him the votes I doubt he cares wether or not it makes sence.

[Ping]

As for me, I believe a person should learn English when they emigrate here, but kick them out because they don't know the language? That's almost racism.

[True_Avery]

He's demanding that everyone know English to the level he desires. His grasp of how to speak English is limited and he wants to make something as needed as a driving test completely English. I'm sorry, but he is speaking the most bastardized form of English on the planet and he's demanding his state be -more- English. I would recommend anyone who moves here learn some English, but if you've ever tried to learn a different language it doesn't always work out that way, especially considering English (and Americanized English) is one of the the hardest languages on the planet to just pick up, not to mention that past 25 it becomes increasingly hard to teach yourself a new language.

[urluckyday]

The only thoughts I've ever had about these things about "making English the official language" and whatnot was that I'm against forcing people to learn English, but I'm also against making people make signs and notifications in any other language than English like we see in Canada with English and French. All I have on the subject...

[True_Avery]

The only thoughts I've ever had about these things about "making English the official language" and whatnot was that I'm against forcing people to learn English, but I'm also against making people make signs and notifications in any other language than English like we see in Canada with English and French. All I have on the subject...

In concept I agree, but living in Southern California (20 minutes from the border) it is sort of necessary to have dual language signs in English/Spanish. Not everyone out here has a completely firm grip on English, even more so considering Spanish and English have almost completely different grammatical structures. Its hard enough to get past the part where inanimate objects are referred to in gender terms.

 

That said, I agree it shouldn't be as extreme as French Canada (Like Quebec City) where the signs are either French, or English, and not often both.

[Revan 411]

I'm sorry, but if you guys have ever been to Canada, you would notice that our signs are both written in English, and in French; as those two are the official languages of Canada.

[True_Avery]

I'm sorry, but if you guys have ever been to Canada, you would notice that our signs are both written in English, and in French; as those two are the official languages of Canada.

Fair point, but having friends in both in and out of areas like Quebec I've been told numerous times that French is pretty much required to get around. I'm up for being corrected on that, however.

[Revan 411]

French is required to get around in areas like Quebec, yes. But not "all" areas of Canada are like that; most of them have English as the prime language, and French as the secondary one. (Perfect example: Ontario.)

 

And there are a number of English signs located throughout Quebec, but the majority is mostly French as it's a French speaking province. (Province is pretty much the equivalent of a "State." )

[Blix]

Is this another case of "dey took er jubs!!!!"

[Darth Avlectus]

So as someone can be stopped for looking of being "out of place", it's racist, unconstitutional, and all that jazz to ask for a green card if they don't speak English.

 

Meh. Don't like it but it's nothing new. That's about what I've come to expect here in Sacramento.

 

But look on the bright side: we can still deport Beavis to Mexico if he is cornholio in a burger world outfit.

[Totenkopf]

Where did anyone comment that new immigrants should not learn English in this thread?

 

However, English is not an easy language to learn and driving is a very import factor (at least in the South where mass transit is nonexistent) for getting to work and work is an important factor in eating. It may actually be important to allow new legal immigrants to have a driver’s license before they learn to butcher the English language like the rest of us Americans.

 

Since you seem to think learning to read English is important to driving, do you support revoking the lilliterates driver's licence?

 

So the only point I see Tim James having is that he has not thought this out at all.

 

Where did I say anyone had? I was just stating my position. And, unlike what I saw in a post above, nowhere has the man said you should leave America if you can't. He only said that if you ARE going to live in America, you should learn English. Big deal. Re illiterates, if they can't read, how did they pass the driver's test unless they were given it orally? If you can't understand a country's language, you've no business living there UNLESS you accept the responsibility of constantly having an interpreter at your own (not the govt's) expense or just being in the dark on a lot of things. No one is saying you have to be a linguist, but people can pick up survival language skills.

[Liverandbacon]

Is this another case of "dey took er jubs!!!!"

 

No.

 

The title of the thread is slightly misleading, as the video is more "Be capable of reading very basic English or don't drive". Admittedly, a number of accidents where I am living right now are caused by immigrant truck-drivers (legal and otherwise) driving onto the no truck parkway and getting stuck in/destroying bridges, when they can't understand the "no trucks" sign, and follow their spanish-speaking GPS. Also, as was said earlier in this thread, putting the drivers test in 12 languages is unfair to the people who don't speak any of them, placing them below other immigrants.

 

With that said however, the would-be governor is clearly phrasing his argument very badly, and clearly trying to attract the vote of the "dey took er jubs!!!" folks you mention, instead of laying out the points in favor of his argument properly.

 

Edit: I forgot to mention: Immigrants wouldn't even need to be fluent in English to pass an all-english driver's test. They would only need to learn very rudimentary vocabulary. After a less than a year of studying Chinese (with no relatives from even the same continent as China helping), I was able to understand every single road sign I came across there.

[mimartin]

No one is saying you have to be a linguist, but people can pick up survival language skills.

So what do we do, put legal immigrates on welfare until they can learn the language enough to take a driver’s test?

 

 

Some people can understand English enough to make out a road sign, but yet still not be able to take an exam.

 

 

Also, yes they do give the drivers exam orally to those that cannot read (at least in Texas). I use to work for a dirt pit and I have known a few people that could not read or write at all, but they recieved their commerical driver's license.

 

The title of the thread is slightly misleading. [/Quote] The title is not designed to be overly serious.

 

Also, as was said earlier in this thread, putting the drivers test in 12 languages is unfair to the people who don't speak any of them, placing them below other immigrants.[/Quote] I wonder why they picked those 12 languages? Perhaps it is because they are the 12 most common languages of the immigrants coming to Alabama?

 

I guess the would be governor is against any more Japanese auto makers or other companies coming into his state.

[Totenkopf]

So what do we do, put legal immigrates welfare until they can learn the language enough to take a driver’s test?

 

Also, yes the do give the drivers exam orally to those that cannot read (at least in Texas). I use to work for a dirt pit and I have known a few people that could not read or write at all, but they recieved their commerical driver's license.

 

Are these english speaking illiterates or non-english speaking ones that were talking about? English speaking ones already understand the language and can probably understand very basic written words anyway (yes, no, etc..). Not sure TX should be giving illiterate non-english speaking drivers a license (that is, if they do, if not, then not an issue). As to your question about what to do with foreigners that can't speak the language....likely there are businesses that have bilingual employees (esp in the SW US) that might hire them anyway. But frankly, you shouldn't move to another country and refuse to learn their language if you intend to live there. Save the "it's too hard" complaint b/c no one really cares (this applies to Americans who wish to live abroad as well, so not being hypocritical). As to the driving, move somewhere where there's public transportation or carpool w/ someone are just two possible options. Point is, don't expect that your new country has to adapt to you, but you to it.

[mimartin]

What is the difference in English speaking illiterates or legal immigrates that cannot read or speaking English when it comes to reading road signs?

 

Certain foreign companies come into a country. They usually bring in some of their own workers as supervisors. I know when a Japanese chemical plant came here in the 1980s we were had to accommodate them somewhat, but considering the jobs they brought into the area, it was worth it. They also did learn English, but it was not overnight. I heard similar stories from relatives in Alabama when Mercedes moved in.

[Totenkopf]

Don't know about you, but I don't expect people to immediately become fluent in their new language overnight. Doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to learn it. We're not talking transients (including tourists), either (though they too should learn at least survival language skills).

 

As to illiterates....it's easier to explain a sign to an english speaking illiterate than a non-english speaking one. They can still understand what you're saying.

[mimartin]

Again who said they should not learn English?

 

If they can read English well enough to drive or recognize road signs well enough to drive why shouldn't they be able to drive?