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Why I Hate KotOR and TOR

Darth Primus

By Darth Primus
in Ahto Spaceport Cantina

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Darth Primus Newbie

Darth Primus

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Oh so Sadow's nova-inducing starship is okay' date=' even though it screams a complete replica of the Original Trilogy. *coughs* *Sidious' Death Star* *coughs* But it's not okay for KotOR to "mimick" the Prequal trilogy and have a Jedi Council. Odd how such a "rationalization" makes sense.[/quote']

 

You admitted to not even have read TotJ in that post of yours, sonny. You're not in the best position to be discussing TotJ-related aspects (as you clearly demonstrated when you considered that by Sadow's time the Old Sith Empire and it's people had already retreated to the Unknown Regions: Sadow was the Old Sith Empire and he brought the Sith people to fight the Republic during his war... and he wasn't called "Sith Emperor", he was called Dark Lord of the Sith, he was the Dark Lord of his time, not some shady Sithy depicted as not even being of the Sith species). Still to that, Naga Sadow is canon. Your precious Sith Emperor from TOR is an absurd discontinuity.

 

Anyways, Sadow's nova-inducing weapon is a nod at the Death Star. And that is not outright emulation. TotJ's plot, as you would know had you read it before, is not about Sadow's nova-inducing starship (because it never was Sadow that could blow up stars, it was his starship, the Corsair).

 

Actually, if you think it through, the Star Forge's always been more like the Death Star than anything else: it's the Sith's superweapon, and it was what the good guys gotta destroy to be able to throw the Sith back. Also, one of the weapons it had was a gravity-shifting beam or something like that, which would cause starships to crash against each other (which strikes me as the feel of a superweapon too), but it got cut in the end. That is copying the Death Star.

 

Sadow's weapon is used for a few plot-related mechanisms: Sadow needed a sure way to escape the Republic, so they gave him this overpowered alternative; Sadow showed the Republic the Sith had many powers at their disposal, powers the Jedi couldn't understand, and certainly could not underestimate either. So much so that, 1000 years later, Aleema goes on to activate that superweapon again, and, despite blowing herself up, manages to sterilize Ossus completely and burn the records Jedi had painstakingly built for over 20000 years.

 

What of Darth Sion? Darth Vader was nothing but a walking zombie as well... that suit was the only thing that kept him alive. As for Darth Nihlus how is someone who destroy's a world any worse than Sadow or Sidious? They both did the nearly the same.

 

Darth Vader was in a very-near-death situation. He never died. Darth Sion was dead, the Exile struck him down personally (like what, six times?!?) before "convincing" him he should really be dead by then.

 

I'll tell you how Nihilus is worse than Sadow and Sidious. The two Sith Lords personally never had the power to destroy worlds. The Death Star and the Corsair did. Lemme remind you the first planet to be hit by the Death Star's superlaser was only hit because Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin ordered it. Grand Moff Tarkin... was not even Force-sensitive, let alone a Sith Lord.

 

The same goes to Sadow: he never personally held the power to blow up stars, the Corsair did. So much so that Aleema Keto, a mere Sith sorceress who couldn't even meddle with Alchemy, was able to destroy the stars of the Cron cluster, and summon the death of Ossus by that.

 

But Darth Galactus waives such "mundane" contraptions. He was in all aspects a one-man Death Star, and every Sith that followed him had the potential to be one as well. Hell, the Exile had the potential to be one as well!

 

*raises an eyebrow* You know you try to rationalize and make others see your way of thinking' date=' but in trying to prove your point, you just give us more fuel. If you really want to know the truth TotJ reflect that of the OLD trilogy as KotOR reflects the Prequal Trilogy (and a bit of the Old Trilogy as well, but that's besides the point). So instead of bad talking KotOR why don't you get off your high horse and try to stop your useless ranting?[/quote']

 

You say I rationalize, when you are so prone to change your way of thought to accomodate KotOR comfortably. That, sonny, is rationalizing.

 

Besides, I'm not trying to get anyone to see my way of thinking, sonny. I'm stating my opinions for debate's sake. And Allow me to let you in a little secret. Fewer aspects in TotJ resemble the OT than there are aspects in your KotOR that resembles the PT. And given you've never even read TotJ, I guess you really shouldn't be saying that, it's not good for your health.

 

TotJ's reflection does not go beyond nodding at the Original Trilogy. Not where plotline, design, feel and setting are concerned. It's quite different, since it is opposite to the Original Trilogy: there, the Sith are in power and the good guys are trying to throw them out. In TotJ, the good guys are in power, and the Sith are trying to throw them out. That there are resemblances and nods at the OT is indeed welcome: every work in the EU is entitled to it sometimes, such as the use of "I have a bad feeling about this". But KotOR goes beyond nodding and making small references. They copy/paste Prequel Trilogy galaxy and set a first game in the molds of Episode IV (the princess on the run is captured, then rescued by the good guy, which is then introduced into the Jedi Order, and goes off to destroy the Sith's superweapon and win the day, all with the millenium Hawk or the Ebon Falcon). And the only plot twist being the good guy is actually the bad guy that started all that crap to begin with. And that too is not new, as what they were really trying to get at was giving the good guy an indissociable relation to the bugger who started all the crisis to begin with: like Luke's association to Vader, the only difference being Revan was actually the bugger who started all the crisis to being with.

 

Revan definitely. The OP will just yell "insults" at him telling him he's a retarded Sith who is nothing more than a remake of Anakin and that his Jedi Council is false and the Sith that follow him shouldn't use Red Lightsabers.

 

The OP wouldn't fight Revan. Revan's a fictional character, who can lift objects with the power of his mind and choke people to death. And he's a poor fictional character at that, a "Mary Sue", as Alexrd said.

 

In response to the first post, when a developer makes a video game based on an existing franchise, staying true to the original material and trying to get every single detail spot on to please fanboys is the most important thing to them I'm sure, not make a product that will be commercially viable and will actually sell copies, that always takes the back seat.

 

Well, this is one of the points of my original post: KotOR is as it is because if it were not, it wouldn't yield this much rating, as it still does six years after it's release.

 

EDIT: Besides, Negative, I never said KotOR should be copied outright from TotJ. I merely believe their disregard for TotJ was a friggin' insult. And why did they disregard? Because if they didn't, KotOR wouldn't look like the films, and then some people would think it really has nothing to do with Star Wars if there isn't a Jedi Council, Padawans, wedge-shaped starships, red-bladed lightsabers, the Ebon Falcon/Millenium Hawk and the Sith ultimate space station that wins the war for them.

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Prime Newbie

Prime

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EDIT: Besides, Negative, I never said KotOR should be copied outright from TotJ. I merely believe their disregard for TotJ was a friggin' insult. And why did they disregard? Because if they didn't, KotOR wouldn't look like the films, and then some people would think it really has nothing to do with Star Wars if there isn't a Jedi Council, Padawans, wedge-shaped starships, red-bladed lightsabers, the Ebon Falcon/Millenium Hawk and the Sith ultimate space station that wins the war for them.
I think they made the right decision, honestly.

 

And I think "insult" is taking it too far. They tie several things from surrounding canon into the games, even to the point that Bastila was apparently going to be Sunrider, but that was prevented by LA. If they really wanted to insult all existing material they could have written the story in a vacuum.

 

As for the asthetics, I thank my lucky stars they went the way they did. No doubt your opinion varies, but it feels a lot more like SW to me not having to drive my beetle spaceship around.

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Canaan Sadow Newbie

Canaan Sadow

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No, I haven't read TotJ but from what little I've found out about the series by your useless ranting is that it's almost the spitting image of the Original Trilogy.

 

but...but you cannot play TSL…TSL isn't faithful to Tales of the Jedi.

 

By playing TSL you are deliberately belittling the importance of TotJ.

 

I think I’ll be off too to play KotOR or TSL. ;)

 

*sarcastic* OH MY GOD! I had no idea KotOR or TSL wasn't faithful to the TotJ! I better burn my discs and prevent myself from ever playing that blasphemus game ever again! :o *end sarcasm*

 

Yeah and your point is? Belittle TotJ, who cares?

 

Hmm... if I wasn't playing WoW, I'd totally join you. (:

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mimartin Newbie

mimartin

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GTA, this is a winch
Leave GTA alone…after all different strokes for different folks.

 

Besides he is less likely to get a disease from a winch than he would a wench.

 

Between Jae’s Lightsaber and GTA’s stretching fetish this thread has entered the realm of too much information.:xp:

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Darth Avlectus Newbie

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Winches, wenches. It's all in good fun. I have uses for both.

 

Wenches are good for sqeaky sqeaky on the street corner for when I get bored of giant furries. :xp:

 

Stretching fetish? Ah such wonderful ideas you give me! :dev11: Which reminds me, anyone have any European torture racks? Anybody who owes you money? I can supply whips and chains.

 

No, I meant winches as I was talking about ripping off those steel cable motor things mounted on the front of cars. For abnormal uses. See there's a lot of people in debt to my client. This is my client, perhaps you know him?

Weegee.png

And that unpaid debt makes me angry. And when I get angry, fingers arms and hands turn into spagheeeeeeeeeeeeti for weegee. To do... God only knows what with.

 

...If any of you get the reference.

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Darth Primus Newbie

Darth Primus

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And I think "insult" is taking it too far. They tie several things from surrounding canon into the games, even to the point that Bastila was apparently going to be Sunrider, but that was prevented by LA. If they really wanted to insult all existing material they could have written the story in a vacuum.

 

They don't "tie it in". Not at all. Their story is stand-alone, face it. It could go on unchanged if there was no Exar Kun, Ulic Qel-Droma or whoever else they merely mention in the game. The only change would be with the unimportant rodian, who'd have different tales to tell, and the old Jedi, who'd have different tales to tell. But then, the rodian is unimportant and what's really remarkable about that Jedi is the fact he likes to crack wise.

 

The very fact they don't go beyond citing Kun and others is an absurd, considering KotOR comes by only 40 years after Kun ravaged the Jedi Order like he did. The only reference is an aged Jedi, but he can't really be a reference, because his counts are inconsistent with the time he's supposed to have experienced.

 

As much as you're glad BW made the decision to approve the Prequel Trilogy Knights of the Old Republic, I'm sure as hell glad Nomi Sunrider was tackled out of it! Imagine the mess it'd be, seeing KotOR like what, twelve years after the Sith Wars, with it's Jedi Council and all that anachronistic crap! If it wasn't bad enough fourty years removed from those events...

 

Nah, I'm quite sure it's an insult pretty much the way it is. Where they deign to cite TotJ for more than saying the names of the famout people, they misquote the series.

 

As for the asthetics, I thank my lucky stars they went the way they did. No doubt your opinion varies, but it feels a lot more like SW to me not having to drive my beetle spaceship around.

 

Pfeh! The Nebulon Ranger isn't a beetle spaceship. The SunGem, Arca Jeth's starship, wasn't a beetleship. The Republic war cruisers were not beetle ships. Kun's starship wasn't a beetle ship. The Starbreaker 12 wasn't a beetle ship. The Corsair wasn't a beetle ship. The Star Sabers weren't beetle ships. Neither was Hoggon's ship, the ion-collecting ships from Exxis station... Oh yes! Now I remember! That useless freighter belonging to a half-broke merchant lord of the Stennes system, who had to hire security from the hutt lord Bogga, that was a beetle-ship. Hmm. So you'd rather pilot the Millenium Falcon, on it's flight from an Imperial Star Destroyer after being caught in a tractor beam? I'm pretty sure Star Wars: Rogue Squadron may have one mission that resembles that. Without being anachronistic. Because the Ebon Hawk fleeing from an Interdictor-class cruiser doesn't strike me as something quite new and exciting. We all saw that action of turn-off-the-tractor-beam before, and it wasn't on KotOR. So if you wanna play that too, I suggest you play Super Nintendo's Episode IV adaptation. It's quite a classic. Like Super Mario.

 

So people would actually play the game?

 

Wrong. So people like you would actually play the game. If I wanted to experience Episode IV for plot, I'd watch it. If I wanted to experience Prequel Trilogy for settings, I'd watch it. Now when a game is set fourty years after Exar Kun's time, what do I get? Prequel-dressed Episode IV.

 

but...but you cannot play TSL…TSL isn't faithful to Tales of the Jedi.

 

No, no, by all means play it! Wouldn't want you to forget the main plotline, so messed up as it is.

 

No' date=' I haven't read TotJ but from what little I've found out about the series by your useless ranting is that it's almost the spitting image of the Original Trilogy.[/quote']

 

Yeah, sonny. Don't read it, we're better served this way. But, if you actually wanna sit down and discuss how like the OT Tales of the Jedi actually is, I suggest you take your time to read about it on Wookieepedia, instead of thinking you know anything about it from this discussion. Better yet, find yourself a copy, read it yourself and make your own opinions. Then we can discuss TotJ.

 

*sarcastic* OH MY GOD! I had no idea KotOR or TSL wasn't faithful to the TotJ! I better burn my discs and prevent myself from ever playing that blasphemus game ever again! :o *end sarcasm*

 

Wow. To actually seem sarcastic, you have to outline it blatantly? You'll go a long way, kid! And are you now so short on arguments you're now prone to this empty bragging?

 

My mum pays for it. Not I. ;)

 

Now that's just plain cute, sonny. You indeed have a long way to go.

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Darth Primus Newbie

Darth Primus

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And what's that supposed to mean, being all-knowing?

 

I meant people like you, who feel a game only really is Star Wars if you can feel you're playing through the films five seconds into the game, from text crawl to fade out.

 

KotOR is the only Star Wars game not set in or about the eras of the movies. But that's only perceivable because they said so in some point. If they had not, well, nobody would be able to tell the difference.

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