Mass Effect 3

[Achilles]

Mass Effect 3: 'We respect fan concern - Multiplayer is very optional'

 

So as Lynk pointed out on Skype… That is what he said all along.

 

on the basis of...?

I wish I could remember where I read this, but the original message (as I remember it) was, "multi-player will allow for a new, optimal ending" followed almost immediately by, "you can still get the optimal ending in single-player, too".

 

Since it seems that I cannot find the quote I remember reading, we can chalk this up to old age, but I think a lot of people are still bitter/skeptical of BW's motivations since the announcement that the game would be delayed in order to appeal to a broader audience. I (and others, it seems) read that as, "we're dumbing it down so that we can sell more units".

[DarthParametric]

on the basis of...?

On the basis of the fact that Bioware has been on a downhill slide since 2002, and that slope has only gotten slipperier in the last few years. Thus my expectations for any new release by them are low. I gain no joy or satisfaction from it. If that were the case I'd just pack up and move to the Codex.

[Salzella]

Look for disappointment and you will find it - simple as that. A bit of optimism won't kill you - Mass Effect 2 was amazing for all that DA2 was fairly lame. A downward slide? Rose-tinted nostalgia - as some gamers are repeatedly wont to do. To hell with that - gaming is not going downhill and nor are Bioware.

[Achilles]

Look for disappointment and you will find it - simple as that.

That works the other way as well.

 

"Look for the good and you will find it" and all that.

[DarthParametric]

Rose-tinted nostalgia

Ah, that old chestnut. That might be true if I hadn't played the games of yore in 10+ years and was relying solely on memories. It's a bit different when you have been actively playing them over that same period and continue to do so in preference to newer offerings.

 

You loved ME2? More power to you. Others found it wanting in a number of departments.

[Salzella]

That works the other way as well.

 

"Look for the good and you will find it" and all that.

 

And? I would have thought that looking for the positive is preferable to picking holes in everything available. It's one thing to not over-hype something, it's quite another to assume it will be crap...

 

Ah, that old chestnut. That might be true if I hadn't played the games of yore in 10+ years and was relying solely on memories. It's a bit different when you have been actively playing them over that same period and continue to do so in preference to newer offerings.

 

You loved ME2? More power to you. Others found it wanting in a number of departments.

 

Fair enough I suppose. People who found ME2 wanting are in the extreme minority i find, and my above point still stands - I would think assuming a game will be a disappointment is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Red Hessian]

To hell with that - gaming is not going downhill and nor are Bioware.

 

I disagree. Gaming is on a downward spiral ever sine console games became more prevalent over PC games with both consumers and developers. And, of course, with large corporations buying out smaller gaming firms (EA buying Bioware, for example) games have become over-hyped, dumbed-down console ports targeted at American teenagers. Studios today spend more time and money at game advertisement than actual game development.

 

You loved ME2? More power to you. Others found it wanting in a number of departments.

 

This. Compared to the original Mass Effect, ME2 is indeed wanting in a number of departments.

[DarthParametric]

I would think assuming a game will be a disappointment is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

On occasion, when having assumed the worst, one can be pleasantly surprised. I would think that better than being hyped up only to be disappointed. Generally the former comes from experience of the latter.

 

Leaving that aside, this is not some new IP that nobody knows anything about. It's the 3rd instalment and concluding chapter in an established franchise. There are a lot of variables that we know are fixed at this juncture, so we can make some fairly educated guesses about what we'll be getting come March. The power of positive thinking is not going to grant them better writers, a better engine, etc. etc.

[Lynk Former]

On the other hand, through my own experience, I've always found that it's best to just say "even though there are many that have come before it, I have no idea how this game will turn out" and actually play it to find out. Hell, I even took that position on Metroid: Other M even though in the back of my mind it didn't seem quite right for a Metroid game from the trailers and E3 footage I saw of it. But I gave it a shot... too bad it has turned out to be the absolute worst game I've ever played in my entire life. Bleah

[DarthParametric]

Empirical evidence 1 - Hopeless optimism 0

[Achilles]

And?

 

...

 

I would think assuming a game will be [EDIT]good[/EDIT] is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And this.

 

I have no way of knowing how the game is going to turn out. I haven't played it yet.

 

I'm hopeful that it will be good because I like the lead writer, but there are several indications that I should temper that optimism.

 

1) This is the first game in the franchise to be fully developed under EA, a developer/publisher with a reputation of taking things and making them more fecal.

 

2) The game was pushed back so that they could go back and dumb it down for people that haven't played ME or ME2.

 

3) The game is now being released with multi-player, which cannot be argued to be anything other than ploy to increase sales (which means it isn't being done to improve the story, strengthen the narrative, whatever).

 

4) Despite the gushing of millions of fanboys and fangirls everywhere, ME isn't that fantastic of a franchise to begin with. ME2 is a fun game but that's all it it is: a fun game.

 

Fair enough I suppose. People who found ME2 wanting are in the extreme minority i find

So what?

 

Uwe Boll and Michael Bay still get their project green lit and take in millions at the box office even though they both make crap. Popularity is not an indicator of quality.

 

Millions of Justin Beiber fans can't be wrong, right?

[Lynk Former]

Empirical evidence 1 - Hopeless optimism 0

Only a lot of people who claim to go by empirical evidence are just downers who want to justify their stance.

 

The point is, I like to actually wait for the game to come out and actually play it to decide whether it was good or not. Even with a game like Other M that turned out to be horrendously bad.

[DarthParametric]

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. In the broader sense, if something is justified with empirical evidence, surely believing anything else is just plain ignorance? Perhaps in the specific example of games you can give people a pass given the subjective nature of the medium.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Millions of Obsidian fans can't be wrong, right?

Fixed. (I jest... sorta)

 

Though I'd tend to agree. I haven't played it myself either, So until that day, I can only go by my past experiences with the franchise (or any other given franchise).

 

---

My personal example, and let's stress "personal", would be my beef with Obsidian ("fix" above). My track record with them has been atrocious.

 

They managed to stink up NWN2. Perhaps to this day one of my most favorite of franchises (NWN). I had originally thought that to be impossible. Obsidian proved me wrong.

 

I can only enjoy New Vegas in 15 minute intervals due to its still-not-fixed buggy nature (both pc and console), and lack of Fallout(ish)-post-apocalyptic feel.

 

TSL.... ugh

 

and Alpha Protocol, well.. it was bad enough to be denied a sequel.

 

---

 

However, all of the above examples hits on the very thing that DP mentioned earlier.. it's all subjective.

 

I can easily see both sides to each argument. But me personally, I tend to lean towards past experiences with a game/developer to form a "base" opinion of (or expectation of rather?) it's sequel. Guess I'm hopeful that ME3 falls in to that "fun game" category.

[Lynk Former]

I'm not even sure how to respond to that. In the broader sense, if something is justified with empirical evidence, surely believing anything else is just plain ignorance? Perhaps in the specific example of games you can give people a pass given the subjective nature of the medium.

Okay I'll put it this way... just like the cat, we won't know if it's dead or alive until we open the box. So if you never play the game, you won't really know if it's good or not.

 

Right now we don't even have Mass Effect 3 in our hands to say whether it's better or worse than previous ME games. I don't know how ME3 will turn out even with all of the rumours and speculation and yes, even with the facts and experiences with previous games. I still don't know how it will turn out... but I will know once I play it.

 

At that stage I'll have all the empirical evidence I want to compare it with the other ME games and see how it all weighs up against each other.

[Achilles]

Thread derail

Where'd that come from???

[ChAiNz.2da]

Where'd that come from???

 

Posts #753 and up?

You know the whole look for good/bad, empirical evidence and game overhype vs expectation debate. Though looking back, I did forget to add this to my quote. (Which I agree with)

Popularity is not an indicator of quality.Millions of Obsidian fans can't be wrong, right?

Probably would've made much more sense (doh) as to the (my) following Obsidian rant. In any case, leave that out and...

 

I haven't played it myself either, So until that day, I can only go by my past experiences with the franchise (or any other given franchise).

 

<Obsidian rant>

 

.. it's all subjective.

 

I can easily see both sides to each argument. But me personally, I tend to lean towards past experiences with a game/developer to form a "base" opinion of (or expectation of rather?) it's sequel. Guess I'm hopeful that ME3 falls in to that "fun game" category.

Better?

[Achilles]

Why is this suddenly a Bioware vs. Obsidian discussion?

[mimartin]

Don't look at me, I wasn't discussing anything.

 

Also don’t know why I keep posting Mutiplayer Details, when I care nothing about it. Most of this already has been covered.

[Taak Farst]

While I will contribute to the discussion by saying I only like one Obsidian game, which is obviously TSL, and I love each and every BioWare game, I do agree with Achilles. This thread isn't BioWare VS. Obsidian. It's Mass Effect 3

[Sabretooth]

Why is this suddenly a Bioware vs. Obsidian discussion?

 

EVERY DISCUSSION IS SUDDENLY A BIOWARE VS OBSIDIAN DISCUSSION.

[ChAiNz.2da]

Wow. The whole Obsidian example just went over a lot of heads it seems.

 

Anywho ...moving on with less drama news. Bioware released a new episode of Pulse that highlights some of the new enemies we'll be facing in ME3.

http://livestre.am/NWCw

 

 

Article about it:

http://beefjack.com/news/mass-effect-3-single-player-bioware-talk-enemies-combat/

 

 

YouTube Highlight:

 

[youtube=hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvz1AyeExig

 

Looks as if several races can get "reaper-ized" now and use their tactics against the player party or help out their own gang. Seems combat will add some more strategy options rather than a run-duck-n-gun playthrough.

[mimartin]

If you shoot the head off a husk they will still come after you… How will it know where Shepard is?

 

My guess is the secret to defeating the Cerberus Faction is to leave them alone until one of their crazy experiments kills them all.

 

 

According to video: Its possible that geth can be allied with Cerberus specifically or the Reaper.” I really hoping by possible they mean if you handed Legion over to Cerberus then they are Cerberus allies, if you didn’t hand Legion over, but didn’t complete its loyalty quest then the Geth are with the reapers…but the third option better be if you completed Legion side quest then they better be on Shepards side or fighting the quarians depending on other choices… Going to be upset if I did all that crap for Legion and that artificial bastard stabs Shepard in the back.

 

[Mr Roboto]

I like how cerberus has hired HL2 combine (according to the video).

[Totenkopf]

spoiler

 

 

Well, given the schism w/in Geth "civilization" and the fact that they aren't completely obliterated in ME2 no matter what you do, it's possible that any remaining geth from Legion's "final solution" could still end up working for the reapers.