Please badmouth Secret VGA for me

[AndywinXp]

57 minutes ago, fentongames said:

 

It's a fantastic recreation of the soundtrack! Have you thought about doing the same with MI2? Appreciate it's a bigger soundtrack, but have you thought about maybe doing the most "iconic" tracks?

Thanks! About MI2 I can't do a full recreation of the three hours or so, and beside I think the SE did a good enough job. 

... but maybe some tracks here and there, published sparingly... I'll think about it

[Niemandswasser]

1 hour ago, Thrik said:

Yeah it’s weird. Melee Island in general had this very creepy quietness to it when I played it as a child, with no ambient sound effects like in the CD version, and slightly less music too.

 

It was jarring to hear the music, although it is appropriate, as it was always an eerily still, lonely dock for me. Especially when you explore minus Stan.

 

I've always thought the moments of sudden silence were the biggest loss between the floppy and CD versions. They added a subtle menace to the island that I think was a large part of why the game made such an immediate impression on me as a kid. It felt fun, no doubt, but also dangerous.

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:

Oh, my god! I never knew Stan's theme wasn't in the non CD versions of SMI!!! That's a hell of a change if I ever saw (or heard) one!

I never cared much for Stan's theme in the CD version, but, looking at the scenes without music, I do kinda miss it in the EGA/Floppy VGA version.

(Or is that somewhat of an unpopular opinion?)

 

It is for me, but I suppose it's whatever you were introduced to. I can't stand it. (Did I mention that already?)

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, Niemandswasser said:

 

I've always thought the moments of sudden silence were the biggest loss between the floppy and CD versions. They added a subtle menace to the island that I think was a large part of why the game made such an immediate impression on me as a kid. It felt fun, no doubt, but also dangerous.

I think the silence was maintained on the CD version, with the exception of Stan's?

[Niemandswasser]

1 minute ago, BaronGrackle said:

I think the silence was maintained on the CD version, with the exception of Stan's?

As I recall there's added ambient noise--crickets, birds, waves lapping, etc--in the spots without music. Which are fine in their own right, but I've always felt the effect of suddenly emerging into total silence was more interesting.

[ThunderPeel2001]

15 hours ago, Niemandswasser said:

As I recall there's added ambient noise--crickets, birds, waves lapping, etc--in the spots without music. Which are fine in their own right, but I've always felt the effect of suddenly emerging into total silence was more interesting.

 

Yes, the sound of the waves on the dock was actually quite irritating because it was just a CD track. Every time you entered the scene you heard the same ambient noise in the same way. It felt very artificial. Honestly the older I get the more I just like to return to the original work, rather than try to make it into something it was never meant to be. 

 

It's OK to have rough edges. It's not a mistake, it's flavour! (There are exceptions to this rule.)

Edited August 4, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Torbjörn Andersson]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:50 PM, Lagomorph01 said:

Oh, my god! I never knew Stan's theme wasn't in the non CD versions of SMI!!! That's a hell of a change if I ever saw (or heard) one!

I never cared much for Stan's theme in the CD version, but, looking at the scenes without music, I do kinda miss it in the EGA/Floppy VGA version.

(Or is that somewhat of an unpopular opinion?)

 

If memory serves me, the music for the cannibal village is also unique to the CD version.

[Torbjörn Andersson]

On 8/2/2022 at 5:49 PM, BaronGrackle said:

In the post two days ago you did literally mention that ScummVM fixed certain bugs. One of my reasons for this post was to get more information on those bugs specifically.

 

Maybe someone already mention this, but you can also find details in the ScummVM wiki: https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php?title=SCUMM/Game_Enhancements

 

(I started the page, but others have added a lot to it so I don't know the details of everything in it off-hand.)

[Torbjörn Andersson]

The most noticeable difference in behavior I've seen in the VGA CD version compared to the VGA floppy version is that some text was (accidentally?) cut in the scene where you bribe the Monkey Island cannibals.

 

There are some graphical differences besides the user interface, though. Mostly it's subtle differences in colour. I suspect some of them may have been caused by the colours being ordered differently in the palette. At least with things like the smoke from the voodoo lady's cauldron. That change carried over to the special edition, too. Maybe it also explains why the actors are a bit brighter in the CD version? Unless that was a deliberate change.

 

(I had to use a demo for the EGA version, since I don't own a copy of that game. Hence the difference in text.)

 

But the most noticeable colour difference, and one that I'm sorely tempted to fix in ScummVM because I think the CD version is harder to read, is the sign about the dogs:

 

One other graphical difference was probably introduced by mistake: When playing the floppy version from hard disk (rather than directly from the floppies), the close-up of captain Smirk has animated cigar smoke. The same smoke animation as for the cauldron, apparently. I'm guessing whoever updated the game just mechanically removed those checks, and only kept the case without the smoke.

 

Restoring the animation in ScummVM turned out to be easy, but getting it to appear a the correct position and with the correct colours took a bit more fiddling:

 

The only case I've seen where graphics have been redrawn, rather than re-coloured, is the meat in the SCUMM Bar kitchen. The floppy version looks like ribs to me, while the CD version looks like a leg. And while preparing this screenshot, I just noticed that the colour of the grog changed to green.

 

 

Edit: This change may have been to match the animation when you use the hunk of meat later?

Edited August 6, 2022 by Torbjörn Andersson

[ThunderPeel2001]

And don’t forget that silly clock tower bug the CD version introduced!

Edited August 6, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[Torbjörn Andersson]

1 hour ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

And don’t forget that silly clock tower bug the CD version introduced!

 

Well, yes, but that's not a mandatory thing, so I figured it was enough to link to the ScummVM wiki page in an earlier post. 😀

[dwa]

What I miss the most in the CD version is the verb interface becoming red when you're in the Monkey Island catacombs. Both the EGA and VGA floppy releases had it. I really liked that dramatic effect the first time I reached that part of the game, but they've dropped it with the new verb interface of the CD release.

Edited August 8, 2022 by dwa

[Thrik]

Yes, that was a masterful touch.

 

[Niemandswasser]

1 hour ago, dwa said:

What I miss the most in the CD version is the verb interface becoming red when you're in the Monkey Island catacombs. Both the EGA and VGA floppy releases had it. I really liked that dramatic effect the first time I reached that part of the game, but they've dropped it with the new verb interface of the CD release.

I completely forgot about this! So many little touches that added up in that game. I sometimes wonder if I'd have wound up as enamored of the series if I hadn't played the floppy version first. (And thank heaven that's how I first played LOOM!)

[dwa]

Investigating the floppy VGA/CD releases a bit more, it looks like the original VGA releases were the only ones (besides the excellent Ultimate Talkie Edition) fixing the Jolly Roger continuity error in Part 2!

 

You know, that part:

 

 

The first time you see the Sea Monkey, it should be there, but once you're err… done cooking or quitting your crew, it shouldn't be visible anymore, since you must have picked it at this point (unless I'm messing something obvious…). This continuity error fix appears to have been lost when they ported the game to SCUMM v5, though (i.e. the releases with the new verbs and inventory). The Special Edition didn't fix this either.

 

So, I'm working on bringing this original fix back to all the other releases within ScummVM (here's the code if you're curious), but this means that I must play Part 2 in all the different 6 game releases I have here! And yeah, you can tell ScummVM not to enable these enhancements if you prefer the original behavior, don't worry.

 

EDIT: Ha! And it looks like only some versions of the VGA floppy release had that fix… My French VGA floppy version still has the buggy script.

Edited August 14, 2022 by dwa

[ThunderPeel2001]

I don't think I've ever noticed this? Can you explain more?

[Niemandswasser]

I think it's that the flag is still visible over the ship even after Guybrush has taken it down to use in the recipe.

[ThunderPeel2001]

35 minutes ago, Niemandswasser said:

I think it's that the flag is still visible over the ship even after Guybrush has taken it down to use in the recipe.

Ah! Yes, thanks for explaining. 

[Torbjörn Andersson]

Another musical difference is that the VGA CD version plays music in the Mêlée Island jail. (Sounds like the forest music to me, or possibly the music when following the shopkeeper.) Also, is the music when you see LeChuck's ship sail away from Mêlée Island in any of the earlier versions? I don't remember.

 

Oddly enough, the Mac versions I have both have the CD version's user interface, but apparently none of the musical additions?

[BillyCheers]

18 minutes ago, Torbjörn Andersson said:

Another musical difference is that the VGA CD version plays music in the Mêlée Island jail. (Sounds like the forest music to me, or possibly the music when following the shopkeeper.)

This always sounded strange and like some kind of bug to me. It doesn’t fit at all...

[madmardi]

3 hours ago, BillyCheers said:

This always sounded strange and like some kind of bug to me. It doesn’t fit at all...

 

Was it supposed to be a hint that you could find the flowers in the forest?

Edited August 12, 2022 by madmardi

[Udvarnoky]

Having it all laid out in this thread, it's amazing how compromised VGA CD is. I grew up on VGA Floppy*, and when I experienced VGA CD I disliked every single alteration and never went back to it. Truly, the original Special Edition.

 

*I still think it's an excellent version of the game, but have since joined the righteous in recognizing that EGA is the one true messiah.

[madmardi]

54 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

Having it all laid out in this thread, it's amazing how compromised VGA CD is. I grew up on VGA Floppy*, and when I experienced VGA CD I disliked every single alteration and never went back to it. Truly, the original Special Edition.

 

*I still think it's an excellent version of the game, but have since joined the righteous in recognizing that EGA is the one true messiah.

 

Yea, I also grew up on the VGA Floppy version and didn't try any other version until years later. I played the VGA CD once, but similar to your experience it just felt too different (it didn't sound like the game I knew, and I always preferred the original verb interface).

 

I've been meaning to play through the EGA version but still haven't found the time...

[BaronGrackle]

EGA has its plus sides, definitely. And I appreciate things about the close-up pictures like Estevan's tragic face and Carla's hair continuity, and how Purcell made them resemble PotC animatronic guys. The loss of the stump joke is a historic tragedy. A lot of bugs in VGA are ridiculous.

 

But I still love the VGA closeup art more, and the inventory icons. The VGA sprites link me visually to the MI2 sprites for Elaine, Voodoo Lady, Stan, and dream Guybrush. And even though Stan's ship theme is hated by most of you... when I play through EGA again and get to it, I might just play the music on my phone.

 

That being said, the thread was made to praise EGA's strengths over what VGA lost. I just had to contribute anyway!

[Torbjörn Andersson]

3 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

The loss of the stump joke is a historic tragedy.

 

I can see why it was removed, though. It doesn't make sense when running the game from CD. (Multi-CD games were still a few years away, I believe?) But I agree it's a shame. Particularly since both MI2 and MI3 make references to that stump joke.

 

It is still in the VGA floppy version, though.