Where, in your mind, is the alley placed in relation to the Mêlée Town high street?

[Marius]

The connectivity between places is something that fascinates me, and I constantly draw maps in my brain when I walk through them.

My head has a clear idea where the Mêlée Town alley is after passing the store (Drawing 2). But what about you?

 

The E stands for the elevator Guybrush comes out of at the end of LeChuck's Revenge. The little street cone marks the position of the "under construction"-barrier in the same room.

Some drawings quite don't make sense, especially number 3 and 4 where the elevator is inside the church. However, since the interior and exterior of the Mêlée Town store contradict themselves heavily, I think it's ok to put those options in.

 

I'm mostly interested what your brain tells you when you enter the alley and the screen changes. Doesn't have to make logical sense. Maybe you have multiple maps in your mind?! And if you have a completely different idea of the placement, please share it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Marius

[madmardi]

My first instinct was #1, although #2 seems quite plausible as well.

[neoncolor8]

Oh no, I clicked 3, but I think 5 would make more sense? I don't think that the building with the elevator is the church, so it has to be behind the church? The 'pssssst' came out of the alley, so my brain just decided that it's right there. The same location where the fish crates are in the new Meele Town screenshot. 

 

I love stuff like this! Thank you!

[BillyCheers]

My instinct always said #3 (which makes no sense to me, now that I think of it…). I’d go with #4, with how I see the backgrounds. 

[Thrik]

This is some mind-bending stuff. I have always thought #4 and never even considered other possibilities.

 

Looking at the two scenes more closely, the only way l can sort of make sense of it is by paying close attention to the store. Part of the building juts out and is supported by a diagonal beam, which we can also see in the alley:

 

 

The only problem is that this puts the lift in the church, and the side of that building simply doesn’t line up with what we see on the street.

 

It also makes it strange that Shinetop is able to lure Guybrush in and then get the drop on him by following him in. Of course LeChuck could do this, but it seems more likely this is just a second alley further back a la #5.

 

However, unlike your #5 I’d expect the store to extend all the way back, hence we can see the jutting out and diagonal beam.

[BillyCheers]

10 minutes ago, Thrik said:

Looking at the two scenes more closely, the only way l can sort of make sense of it is by paying close attention to the store. Part of the building juts out and is supported by a diagonal beam, which we can also see in the alley:

We should also take into consideration, that the store isn’t even consistent in itself (comparing inside and outside). 😅

[Marius]

I love these responses. The logic in my mind's map also crumbles the more I think about it. But it never destroys the illusion. Even the contradiction of the shops exterior and interior doesn't do any harm. Both places are connected, and are not just seperately made background paintings.

Thank you all for sharing!

 

[Thrik]

Another pair of things I forgot to mention is the at the store seems to end pretty quickly in the street view, so unless there’s a further appendage at its back it doesn’t really make sense. Also, if we did accept #3 despite the church incoherence, the street outside seems far too thin to be the street we know and love.

 

The real secret of Monkey Island.

[BillyCheers]

1 minute ago, Marius said:

I love these responses. The logic in my mind's map also crumbles the more I think about it. But it never destroys the illusion. Even the contradiction of the shops exterior and interior doesn't do any harm. Both places are connected, and are not just seperately made background paintings.

Thank you all for sharing!

 

True! To me it even adds to the mystery of Mélêe Island.

[ThunderPeel2001]

48 minutes ago, Thrik said:

The only problem is that this puts the lift in the church, and the side of that building simply doesn’t line up with what we see on the street.

 

 

Not necessarily. There could be a building behind the church we can't see. And the Fester could be hiding in the shadows, waiting to pop out once Guybrush has turned the corner. It's always been #4 to me!

[KestrelPi]

I'm honestly surprised at the amount of disagreement there is on this one. To me this was always behind the shop (1). The buildings don't line up exactly but it's plausible enough (we know as someone pointed out there's some inconsistency between interior and exterior already, so I think it's plausible enough to add to Thrik's picture by saying these two circled rooves are the same and maybe the shop building is just a slightly different shape to what we thought. Or maybe it's just a continuity error.

 

But yeah, my assumption has always been that the alley shot is in the same orientation as the wide town shot, and that the pavements inside Thrik's circles are supposed to be the same:

 

I actually think this could be the building with the lift. It doesn't quite match up but it's about the right size and location relative to the roof on the left.

[madmardi]

46 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

 

I actually think this could be the building with the lift. It doesn't quite match up but it's about the right size and location relative to the roof on the left.

 

That's actually what I was thinking, but if it is this part doesn't match up...

 

 

 

You know... I just have to say that these things were obviously not too important to the artists, especially with the differences between the outside of the shop and inside, etc. Makes me wonder why people can't give the same leeway to the artistic differences with Melee in EMI vs SOMI. (Not that I want to engage in a huge debate again or anything 😅)

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by madmardi

[KestrelPi]

15 minutes ago, madmardi said:

 

You know... I just have to say that these things were obviously not too important to the artists, especially with the differences between the outside of the shop and inside, etc. Makes me wonder why people can't give the same leeway to the artistic differences with Melee in EMI vs SOMI. (Not that I want to engage in a huge debate again or anything 😅)

 

 

Well, since you asked, for me it was never about small details, it was about the bigger picture. Yeah, if you stare at these for long enough you can say 'well, that pavement makes no sense' or 'that building looks wrong' but it does nothing to change the overall look and feel of the town. The buildings and style are still melee island, it's not like you go into the alley and suddenly everything's pink and it's daytime or something, there's just some details that I think hardly anyone has legitimately given a lot of thought to until this thread was created 😄.

 

I'm happy to give that 'same leeway' to the artistic differences in EMI - and doing so, I find that the differences are way more huge in EMI than maybe some continuity errors with the pavements and window positions between some screens in SOMI.

 

But yes, yes, we probably shouldn't get into it all again.

Edited August 16, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Wally B.]

I would like to also add that it really seems like you're watching the side of the church, at least how it's seen from the outside.

There's that little part I highlighted, even though it should be much higher, it does seem to me like they were trying to keep the structure of the street intact, even if the inside of the church doesn't much up.

The outside of Mêlée and the interiors were probably done by different artists, so that could explain the inconsistencies.

The church could actually have a hidden elevator inside a wall, used by LeChuck to come and go from Monkey/Dinky Island whenever he pleases, which would explain how he gets so fast to Mêlée Island without his ghost ship to deal with Guybrush and then comes with the ship to kidnap Elaine.

 

25 minutes ago, madmardi said:

Makes me wonder why people can't give the same leeway to the artistic differences with Melee in EMI vs SOMI

I always felt that Escape translated Mêlée Island fairly well in 3D. I did play Escape before Secret though, so that might be why, but even going back from Escape to Secret it never felt "wrong" to me and I recognized the key places quite easily. To me it always felt like the same place, and not only because they tell you that it is.

[Marius]

I am so happy that we already have a evidence-board-like image with multicolor lines and circles. That‘s what I was hoping to see in this thread. I love this forum. ❤️ 

[BaronGrackle]

2 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Not necessarily. There could be a building behind the church we can't see. And the Fester could be hiding in the shadows, waiting to pop out once Guybrush has turned the corner. It's always been #4 to me!

 

This was always my interpretation: a building behind the church.

[Vainamoinen]

I may attempt to draw a map later this evening, but for now the elementary problem is clear, we don't have that much room to navigate behind the church, because we only have a few dozen feet before we hit solid rock.

 

I don't think there's a street running behind church and prison. There's no space.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Thrik]

10 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

I may attempt to draw a map later this evening, but for now the elementary problem is clear, we don't have that much room to navigate behind the church, because we only have a few dozen feet before we hit solid rock.

 

I don't think there's a street running behind church and prison. There's no space.

 

 

What rock?! Have we overlooked taking a step back for the bigger picture?

[Marius]

Oh boy, are we stepping into the „lets draw a map of the whole town“ territory? Yes… ha ha ha… YES!

 

(Mostly I wonder where y‘all think high street is placed relative to low street 👀)

[Vainamoinen]

29 minutes ago, Thrik said:

What rock?! Have we overlooked taking a step back for the bigger picture?

 

A look to the left will suffice! 🪨

 

21 minutes ago, Marius said:

Oh boy, are we stepping into the „lets draw a map of the whole town“ territory? Yes… ha ha ha… YES!

 

(Mostly I wonder where y‘all think high street is placed relative to low street 👀)

 

I'm always up for drawing beautiful beautiful maps.

 

And I'm pretty certain it's obvious where High Street and Low Street are. 🗺️

[Remi]

This is a ridiculous thread and only ridiculous people would have an opinion about this. So let me start with video evidence that clearly will show that #1 is the correct answer. To repeat: Number one.

 

 

It's open and shut, of course -- we all see where the "Pssssst" is coming from. Need more?

 

#3 makes no sense. The street the alley veers off from would be too narrow.

 

#4 and #5? Wrong perspective.

 

#6? We can wait and see if ReMI makes it canon.

 

#2 then? That's the only other conceivable choice, but the "Pssssst" suggests it cannot be it either.

 

There, I'm closing the thread now we all agree I'm correct good thread!

[BaronGrackle]

Confession time: I never studied the alley entance/exit as closely as I should have. This thread shames me.

 

Good thing the church is nearby. Guys, is this the back door?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Holy shit... maybe it's #1???

 

 

[Marius]

24 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

And I'm pretty certain it's obvious where High Street and Low Street are. 🗺️

I agree. It's obviously A.

 

Drawing A

 

Drawing B

[Remi]

4 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Holy shit... maybe it's #1???

 

 

 

Maybe. That's like saying maybe Nixon perjured himself on the tapes.