SSH83 Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I just read this interview at JK2Files.com: http://www.jk3files.com/file.news?ID=5254 So appearently, in JA, dark jedis will have Force Drain that will drain enemy HP to heal his own. Instead of draining mana. What a tragedy! Why a tragedy? Well, in JK2, Force Drain's healing power is limited by the enemy's amount of mana, AND it is the only thing a Dark Jedi can do to prevent lightling-spamming and grip-spamming. But in JA, not only will it heal as long as the enemy is alive, the dark jedi will also have nothing to control spamming "noobs." Oh, and now it deals damage. So now instead of "powerless and weak drain whore" we will have "damage-dealing-while-self-healing drain whore." Aren't you happy now, whiners? So... Why the change? If you ask me, Raven must have witnessed so much whiners yelling "draining whore" and "healing whore" that they forgot about why they put Force Drain in JK2 in the first place. So sad... Good job, whiners, you totally "owned" their minds. Btw, I recently played 2 sessions of JK2 last weekend and the only people who were against draining where those who kept loosing to me in saber-challenges. (I hadn't played JK2 for about a whole year, btw, and I had like 96% win-rate in those duels) I wonder if there is a connection between force-spammers-with-no-saber-skill and whiners who abhor force drain. Sigh.... I hope Raven also did something that we don't know of, yet, that will prevent JA MP from being ruined by newbies running around spamming the new force drain. sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 No offense but you sound liek one of them whiners right now. Whining about what people will whine about Of course, i know you're not, just... i'd calm it a bit Still, i think it's only in sp they're gonna have that type of drain, if it is mp too then if they are yoinking your health then you have mana left to hurt them with effective dark powers or put on absorb... that's sure to stop the drain for a sec Even a simple force push will leave them free for attack (you can't defend while you attack) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 it probably only drains hp in single player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legameboy Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Lets hope... if not, I always use trusty absorb, yessiree . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Solar Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 I don't really understand what you're talking about, but... It's way too early to start complaining about "whoring" at this point. We don't know what the force system will be. Example: If lighties get a uber-heal that costs only 1/10 of your force pool and gives full health, who cares or whores a drain that takes away 6hp from the opponent and gives you 2hp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 oh come on! don't be so judgmental dude. its just changing an existing power that even some darkies hated. i like the idea. it seems more 'dark'. no offense man but you sound like one of the whinners thats probably more fair to light siders, coz it was SOO crap in sabers only being drained then having nothing to beable to absorb or throw at them (tho it didn't really happen once i got good) you cannot judge! perhaps there are many powers that have been changed or the style of gameplay just suits that type of power better. drain was complained about probably more than any other force power (besides the big whingers that bitched about heal, which is THE DEFINING light force power, and is what makes the light side worth going - and has always been part of the series and lighties would be crippled without it) you'll get used to it, and theres many light and dark players who would prefer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 Maybe, just maybe, Raven will add something so that it can be countered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbe M'ko Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 It may turn out that Drain would actually become weaker as a result of the change (although unlikely ). The force cost could be huge, for example, and it might not take away more than, say, 15 hp. Maybe. I think we need to wait for the game to come out before we can begin debating the balancing issues. THIS, however, is going to be a problem for me: Male and female versions of all races are not available. You will be able to choose between Human male or female, Rodian male, Twi’lek female, Kel Dor male and Zabrak female during the character creation process. No Twi' Lek males? No Zabrak males? Geez, that kind of belittles the idea of making your own character in this game. There were Rodian females in the movies, Twi' Lek males, and Zabrak males. Kel Dor is the only one where they have an excuse, as far as I'm concerned. I hate to say it, but this game, as I learn more about it, is losing some of its appeal for me. Back to the force, though. Hopefully the force powers will turn out to be pretty much equally useful, at least for multiplayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 im glad they didn't put in male zabraks. you know how many zabraks holding lightstaffs - darth maul wanna be's there would be?? lol i like this new take on drain i hope they put in blinding again it'd also be cool to see protect the way it was in jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babywax Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 There probably wouldn't be THAT many darth maul wannabee's... Plus it's not like they put in facial tatoos or clothes like his (I don't think...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 I don't really care about the male and female stuff, i don't wanna play dress-uo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khier Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Rockstar im glad they didn't put in male zabraks. you know how many zabraks holding lightstaffs - darth maul wanna be's there would be?? lol Now where was my post on stereotyping zabraks so that all of them will have lightstaffs? I would've been one but I wouldn't be using a lightstaff, because I've seen way too many Darth Maul wannabes already, it's just.....ridiculous, I would like seeing servers with variety. I would have used dual sabers and single bladed saber off and on, which I suppose I'll have to do with a human. Bleh, no matter since they won't be adding them anyway . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallen[fk] Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Um I may be missing something but... Force Drain is one. If you choose this dark side power, you will have to gain health by draining it from your enemies, rather than being able to heal whenever you like with the light side Force Heal. That doesn't REALLY say you're draining the oponents health. Because if so, that would be a HUGE attack force. That would be making the power more powerful than it already is. I mean, who here hates it when in a multiplayer game, and you're in the fray, and somebody comes along and drains you dry. ESPECIALLY if you know they're not hurting IE just spawned. It doesn't really say that you drain the opponents health. Now, if they made it so you can't drain if you're 100 hps than that's one thing, but otherwise they've made it more powerful if your interpretation is correct. Why waste points on lightning when you can just drain your opponents health away while replacing your own? So I'm leaving this alone for now. I'm thinking it's the same as it already is and Ken just misinterpreted the question. If it actually drains health instead of force mana, well, then I'm going to be a drain whoring fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 IMO it will probably just take off up to 30 and you'll heal yourself up to 20//25, then you'll have ran out of force. That will force some thinking and tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praenuntius Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 I (perhaps naively) trust that the way they've implemented Drain will not render Lightning redundant. If Drain was actually going to be so powerful, then why would they even bother including Lightning (which I'm sure they will keep). If Mr.Joshua is correct, then this Drain is no different to Drain in Jedi Outcast, love it or hate it. If this wasn't a misinterpretation of the interview question, then it will probably not do very much damage, and/or it will cost lots of Force, and/or it won't heal very much, as others like Solbe and Agen have suggested. I think it will be highly unlikely that Drain will be different in SP and MP. In Outcast, powers that were in SP and MP were pretty much the same (with the exception that Speed didn't slow down others in MP). Either way I see no real reason to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 You haven't played the game yet. You don't know how it's going to work in the final product. I myself have some faith in Raven and LEC that they recognized their mistakes in JO. If they didn't, they wouldn't even be making JA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 5, 2003 Share Posted July 5, 2003 Originally posted by Emon You haven't played the game yet. You don't know how it's going to work in the final product. I myself have some faith in Raven and LEC that they recognized their mistakes in JO. If they didn't, they wouldn't even be making JA. That is probably the most sense I've heard about this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted July 6, 2003 Share Posted July 6, 2003 Originally posted by Emon You haven't played the game yet. You don't know how it's going to work in the final product. I myself have some faith in Raven and LEC that they recognized their mistakes in JO. If they didn't, they wouldn't even be making JA. Indeed. People make these comments assuming that something like this is changed and everything else will remain the same as JO. This simply isn't the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSH83 Posted July 7, 2003 Author Share Posted July 7, 2003 Drain was the only thing in JK2 that came close to countering light jedi's absorb+heal combo. I just hope I either misinterpreted the description in the interview or Raven has something in the wrap to bring balance to the force. Also this is a JA forum, in existance before the game is gold, so this type of thread is exactly what should be expected. (at least there aren't 100 copies of it in the archive already... right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockstar Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 i like this new drain. its much better imo. and as for those that think that dark siders wont beable to stop lightning spamming, i think the answer lies in rerendering the lightning concept (which i think they are doing for this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllKyNeSlll Posted July 9, 2003 Share Posted July 9, 2003 I still believe this drain can't do damage. It wouldn't be feasible and would either render lightning obsolete or be a useless power. The single easiest way to make the light side more powerful is if absorb was more powerful. If heal could be set at using half force while healing 50 instead of 25 it would help too. It would work like this. lv1 absorb you gain 50 percent of the force it used to do against you. lv2 100 and lv3 150. That way heal and absorb would actually be alot more powerful and have a more equal chance of fighting a drain user in 1v1 ff sabers. I mean, heal is only good in 0 regen servers in 1.04 jk2. Also, kick should be made to not use any force. The only way to hope to win as light in saber only ff duel now is to go invis and kick and run and repeat it, ive actually seen people use this tactic someone successfully although they are defeated in the end by drain. And if you think this new drain is more powerful, you are much wrong. Many people used drain to get rid of opponenets force rather than heal. i.e. if you opponent is at 20% and you at 100%. You can drain them to 0 while you are around 80% and then they cannot push you. Therefore, you can immediately grip kick and they can't get out because they have no power to push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo4114 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 For the moment, I don't think this will be that big of a deal in MP combat. There are a number of variables that can come into play which will offset this being an uber-power, or just an upgrade to force-lightning. These factors include: - initial force cost - rate at which it drains the users mana pool - rate at which it drains the target's health - corresponding rate at which it INCREASES the user's own health - whether the power can be used at will, or whether it is like lightside's healing power (IE: only useable when you're damaged). - range and breadth of the power itself. If drain costs a ton, or drains slowly from your target, or uses up mana QUICKLY from your pool, or gives you little by way of health, or has a short range and a narrow field of fire (unlike lightning), it can be balanced. Personally, I suspect that drain will be the dark side's offensive answer to "heal", and I think this will be a good thing. When playing as a darksider, one of the MAJOR disadvantages in JO is that you have no ability to heal yourself through the force, only through medpacks and bacta. Sure, you could remove an opponent's ability to heal themselves too, by draining them dry, but even so, that didn't really feel, well, nasty enough for me or balanced enough. Arguably, lightside was more powerful in JO. Most of the darkside powers could be cancelled by having a strong absorb backed up with a strong heal, and there was no need to spend points on protect or mindtrick or whatever the other force powers were. I know I almost exclusively used absorb and heal. By contrast, darksiders NEEDED to have drain in order to quickly replenish their mana pool, and had have at least one, if not two strong offensive powers (grip, lightning, rage). Having force drain function like force heal (only requiring you to have an enemy target) is both nasty enough to make it a darkside power, and useful enough that it keeps things balanced in terms of light vs. dark. So, assuming they give it roughly the same healing abilities as heal (and they really should have BOTH heal and drain operate gradually, as opposed to JO's method of recovering one big chunk of health at once), and not allowing it to be used when you have full health will help keep the powers distinct as well as keep the two sides of the force well balanced. Finally, so long as both heal and drain restore/drain health at a reasonable (IE: not super-fast) rate, there shouldn't be a problem. To me, I think that both powers should be MUCH slower than their JO counterparts. You shouldn't be able to heal instantly, and you shouldn't be able to drain an opponent dry in 2 seconds. We need to know EXACTLY how the force powers work, aside from just a general sense of their overall function in the game before we start claiming imbalances. I'll admit, I'm not encouraged about some aspects of the game, based on interviews and such (IE: the lightsabre combat sounds like it'll be a whole lot of flash, but fundamentally unchanged in terms of damage/strategy from the last game), but bear in mind, this game is supposedly more mod-friendly. We just need to wait and see. This, however, is a PRIME reason why LEC should release a demo. In fact, anyone want to start a demo petition and send it off to LEC? Raven's already said it's up to them to decide whether one gets released or not, so maybe we should try prevailing upon them to give us a demo BEFORE the game is released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Solo4114 This, however, is a PRIME reason why LEC should release a demo. In fact, anyone want to start a demo petition and send it off to LEC? Raven's already said it's up to them to decide whether one gets released or not, so maybe we should try prevailing upon them to give us a demo BEFORE the game is released? I don't think I could spear head the petition but I would like a demo. We can sorta beta test it for them from the people who actually play JO and are concerned about the balance of JA. That way we won't have those dreaded patches to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademaster_109 Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 when did they change to jk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted July 10, 2003 Share Posted July 10, 2003 Originally posted by Blademaster_109 when did they change to jk 3 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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