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I think it’s a safe bet that “Monkey 3,” had that been made right after 2 instead of DOTT, would have pushed into a more stylized space, but what exactly that space is can never be known. It is clear from everything they did afterwards, the LucasArts art department was interested in pushing the limits into more stylized spaces. They also seemed uninterested in repeating themselves. It’s unlikely that Monkey 3 would have tried to look like a Chuck Jones cartoon, but it’s very unlikely it would have looked like “more Monkey Island 2.” Everything they did afterwards pushed for more illustrative and bigger characters for example. (Except The Dig but that doesn’t count because it started production before all of its contemporaries.) Again that doesn’t mean a Monkey 3 definitely would have shared that, but the odds are decent it would have at least been explored. This image was recovered as part of the VGHF dive into the Monkey Island 1 and 2 source, and nobody was able to divine what it means or what it’s from so please don’t draw conclusions. It’s NOT from any Monkey 3 project. Its impossible to say what it was for beyond a quick style exercise. It was actually found in the source files for Monkey 1, and the reason for that is hard to know (it could have just been a filing mistake, or not?) but it shows that even during production of Monkey Island 1 and 2, the artists were starting to explore pushing into more stylized looks. It really does feel like once scanning paintings was added to their repertoire, the sky was the limit on style exploration.

Weeell, there are levels of hints aren't there? Personally I'm all for giving the player a say in how much hinting they want to engage with. I think it's maybe a little bit patronising to assume as a designer that you know best exactly how much hinting is enough, because there are so many different types of players. When I first played The Secret of Monkey Island I was about 10, and I'd never played an adventure game or even a puzzle game before. I had no concept of adventure game logic, and also I think it's fair to say that while a smart kid, my brain wasn't as developed as it was now. I had a hintbook for Monkey Island, that I used for most of the game. By the time I was playing the later LucasArts games I was fully in the 'hints only as a last resort' mindset. But I don't think younger me was wrong. Younger me loved Monkey Island, even though he solved very few puzzles himself. And I think that's valid. It's valid if someone, for whatever or even no given reason, just doesn't want to solve puzzles, but wants to explore the fun dialogue and world. It's valid if someone wants to do everything themselves no matter how long it takes. So if, as a designer, I want as many types of players of my game to be able to enjoy it as possible, from both ends of the spectrum, then what makes most sense is for me to implement a well thought-out hint system which gives just enough for people who might only want a little nudge, and all they want for anyone who isn't particularly fussed about challenge. This is one of those rare situations where you really can please everyone, except for some weirdos who think that everyone else needs to enjoy the game in the same way they do... so why not?

I would never pay a scalper for something I really want. When I see ads for scalped items, I always have to convince myself to not leave a nasty message to the person selling. They’re really the scum (one M) of the internet.

Yeah, nothing to me suggested this would be enforced hinting. More like... it would be integrated into the world in some way. Probably some sort of character, or something like that. Maybe the Voodoo Lady gives hints now. That'd make some sort of sense. Get your hints as a psychic reading? I'm glad for it anyway, insistence on no hint systems was always silly to me because when you, the developer, control the hint system you can control how those hints are meted out. If folks are just going onto walkthroughs they might see more than they need to. On the rest of the article and everything else. Y'know, the more I look at the art the more I appreciate it. I've always like Rex Crowle's work anyway. Knights and Bikes has convinced me that a) he's more than capable of producing a beautiful Monkey Island game and b) his work is WAY more expressive in motion than in the mostly still images we've seen so far. And the more I've been staring at these screenshots the more I've appreciated the little details of them. But that and the other noises from Ron and Dave have convinced me of something way more important than anything else to me which this is not just a throwback. A throwback could only ever be disappointing because the thing we loved about these games back then was how different they felt to anything else, how surprising they could be, and you can't just bottle up that lightning and try to resell it. Just as MI2 was its own fresh take on what MI was with as much that felt different as felt the same (really, the soundtrack, art, atmosphere and even to an extent the writing is different in a lot of ways), Return should be too, and that means that it might make us a little uncomfortable sometimes. But if we go into it with an open mind, I really think we could be in for a ride.

So when can we expect the super-mojo-exclusive dev interview where you guys ask all the hard hitting fan questions™️? I'm excited for when you guys get a chance to chat with Ron & Dave and maybe even David or Rex While writing this I also realized the abbreviation for Ron and Dave is R&D and I think that's pretty awesome by itself

Streaming exclusively on Mixnmojo: https://mixnmojo.com/features/sitefeatures/Indiana-Jones-and-the-Iron-Phoenix-The-Lost-Sequel-to-Fate-of-Atlantis

Yeah, it's really not much of a stretch to get from this.. to this

Yeah it is probably that*, but the buildings on the left are in a different style that definitely seems to be trending into the DOTT zone. Someone was interested in exploring more abstract shapes. To my eyes it almost looks like an evolution of the wonky perspective of Melee in Monkey Island 1, but seen through the lens of the Monkey 2 artists (who went on to do backgrounds for DOTT and Hit the Road). It really does evoke some of the reference art posted earlier in the thread, but with a different end result than we got in DOTT. Ultimately Monkey Island 2 ended up looking like the right side of the image, but it’s clear that less realistic approaches to representing the world of the game were being considered even during (what appears to be) the transition time between Monkey 1 and 2. * (originally known as Crooked Island in those early days I believe)

Ah nighttime Booty, with the original Stan's Used Coffins from the MI2 demo I assume

I love the artwork you’re referring to, but these assumptions are very farfetched. Different designers and project means different direction. Going by what you’re saying it’s a wonder The Dig and Full Throttle didn’t look like Looney Tunes cartoons.

It is, the screenshot caption was chosen by Terrible Toybox and it clearly states it is.

Sure, that's fair. I do think that feels like a much smaller leap than the one between 1's purely digital look with straight geometry in a heavily skewed perspective, and 2's marker art with more curvy weird angles going on

Thank you so much for the materials!

Monkey Island 1 and 2 both are pretty grounded architecturally, and then push the style of the rendering to exaggerated fisheye perspectives. Curse takes that and starts applying it to the architecture itself. In Plunder Island, the buildings start stacking vertically and haphazardly, so that the architecture is getting increasingly implausible in support of the visual style. It's only a tiny step in that direction really, but I think it's notable. (I dont think this is a bad thing! It's just interesting to watch happen across those 3 games.)

Correct, but I'll admit I'd sell a kidney for the promotional voodoo doll made for MI2:SE. If anyone in here has it and wants a spare kidney, I'm here for you folks.

Sure, it's still in the archive. Wilmunder was uploading so much stuff back in the day, too bad he stopped. Here: https://archive.org/details/indy5roomdesign1

I of course meant Plunder

I think there was a comic made from the plot of it.

Sorry, I don't think it's reasonable security by far. The wackiness of DOTT was appropriate for something that was by all means a reboot of the Maniac Mansion franchise. Monkey Island had solid foundations that didn't need that much of a dramatic change. I suggest you have a look to the design document of the cancelled Indiana Jones and the Iron Phoenix. It was certainly cartoony, but far more serious and proportioned than DOTT. Edit: sorry, you already did. The page didn't update properly.

In a lot of ways I've always thought MI2's art style has more in common with CMI than SoMI. Once you look beyond the pixels, they all use cartoonish distortion, but 1's style of distortion is very linear and predictable, lots of straight lines and playing with perspective, but not much else. But MI2, as well as having a painted look like CMI (albeit with markers), really starts to play with the sort of curvy distortion on buildings and so on that you see get taken to much more of an extreme in CMI. If you compare say, Phatt Island's town with Lucre in CMI, for example, they're not a million miles apart, but both are very different to how Melee is drawn, even ignoring the palette.

I agree with you there. As a kid I never wanted to use a walkthrough*, because I’d never be able to figure out that puzzle by myself again. But when I was stuck for a long time, eventually I’d still use a walkthrough, although I always felt bad about it. If a good hint system would’ve been in place, I probably could have figured it out by myself. (On the other hand, I’d more easily have used it, and I wouldn’t have been as proud of the puzzles I did solve by myself. Two sides to a coin I guess.) Anyway, I think the Thimbleweed Park way was great, and no, I never used it. 😎 * When I was young I bought a “PC Gamers Cheat Codes book”, which came with a cd-rom on which were walkthroughs of about every Adventure Game that was released up until that point.

If they're at the point of getting voices and music in the game, that means there's not all that much left that needs work,yeah. Still I'd be surprised if we get the game before July. If we assume they need a month to finish the VO and music, and about 2 more for testing and polish. August feels about right to me at the moment based on very limited info.

It seems like they're still busy in the recording studio for the voices. I don't expect it will be too long though before we get more stuff. I doubt we'll be waiting until Summer Game Fest, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if the game's out by then. Fingers crossed that next week we'll get a trailer and some more interviews. I agree that PAX would've been the best place to show something though. It's not over yet though.

Thanks for clarification! I didn't notice the caption!

I thought the way hints worked in Thimbleweed Park was really good.

It doesn't happen very often but I do fall guilty to using hint books whenever I'm really really stuck on a puzzle (like, multiple days stuck). I like to use UHS though to only get pushed in the right direction rather than being given the answer directly. I do appreciate the kind of hint system that doesn't ruin the "aha!" moment so I hope it'll be subtle hints instead of just giving away the solution. And I do it mostly just cuz I don't want to stay stuck on something for too long, especially since I don't have a lot of free time to play videogames so if I stay stuck on a puzzle for multiple days it's kind of frustrating to not see any progress happen y'know? I had to use a hint for the "if this is (number), then what is this" riddle in Monkey 2... I felt very stupid afterwards haha

No...no it's not. 👕 I beat #Mojole and all I got was this stupid t-shirt. 4/6 💛💚🖤🖤🖤 🖤🖤🖤🖤💚 🖤💚🖤💚💚 💚💚💚💚💚 https://funzone.mixnmojo.com/Mojole/

It should be like Special editions are. As long as you do not press a key it should not give you any.

Not that much. 😀 But the original $175 was a steal. Even with tax and postage and errata on the book it's a good deal. Voodoo doll should have been included really! 😀

I think hint systems are great if they never tell you the exact solution but provide hints that give you an objective when you have absolutely no idea what to do. Sometimes when you get really stuck on something all you need is an idea and then off you go and find the solution. What I think is the most useful when it comes to easing the frustration of getting stuck though is just having the option to focus on other puzzles instead of the one that you're failing at. The first two MI games and Day of the Tentacle are especially good at that and there are traps that type of design can fall into too (for example I think DOTT is a bit overwhelming in the beginning) but it can work super well. DOTT even gives you hints to what you should be doing in the other time periods when you're dealing with one, in a way that's a built in hint system too. I always liked the difficulty options in MI 2 and 3 too so I'm glad Return will have that. Hopefully that also means that they won't hold back on the "hard" difficulty.

Eh, that's only half a video card.

I don't know how to put this any more clearly--they aren't putting the voice back in because they don't want to. Nothing you say about how easy you perceive it to be is going to change that, because the thing stopping them from doing it isn't that it's hard. It's that they don't want to do it. You wanting them to do it won't change their minds, because again, the thing stopping them isn't that they thought nobody would want it. It's that they don't want to do it. What that means, ultimately, is that they're not going to do it, and you are not going to convince them to do it. Believe me, I'm upset that Titus Welliver couldn't make it back for the Deadwood movie, but no amount of complaining on my part could ultimately alter the fundamental physical reality that he didn't want to stop filming Bosch to go do it. Considering the fact that you yourself just ran through a list of options that you personally have--RIGHT NOW, at THIS VERY MINUTE--to play the game with the voice acting you want, and that Skunkape themselves made the originals available at NO EXTRA CHARGE, all you're coming across as is a spoiled kid who views it as a grave injustice that he can only have 97% of what he wants rather than 100%. You're not getting the thing you want, and that's not going to change. I implore you to learn the lesson the rest of us picked up when mom told us we couldn't have ice cream for breakfast and move on with your life.

Skunkape does exactly this. It offers the original version as free DLC.

I think in reality there's a big problem with this, simply because there ARE bad actors out there who will weaponise ANY THING THEY CAN to perpetuate a culture war. Things like the race of a voice actor vs the race of the character are prime fodder for them, because they can use it to craft a narrative that white people are being oppressed in some way. They're doing this to push against the concept of "white privilege" because it's a privilege that these same people ENJOY HAVING. What I am trying to say is that I think Skunkape were damned if they did this, and damned if they didn't. Recast and piss off the white supremacists, or don't recast and piss off the people who find this type of thing offensive. And anyone who simply prefers the original voices (for whatever reason) gets caught in the crossfire. I guess Skunkape simply prefer to be damned by far-right trolls than by decent inclusive people. That was a brave choice and one I respect them for. As others have said, I also think it's objectively the RIGHT choice.

The sister bit is definitely a joke about Guybrush not wanting to admit he had a dollhouse growing up. "Reminds me of a dollhouse I used to have...I mean, my SISTER used to have."

Not a problem! And honestly, I’m a bit relieved. I think a Star Wars parody wasn’t that clever even back then, but in this day and age it’s just painful…

Sorry, I've jusst finished replaying MI2, and LeChuck apperently doesn't mention Guybrush's sister in the tunnels. It's my mistake. I must have remembered it wrong.... I wholehartedly appologise for misinformation!