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George W. Bush: Pros & Cons


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Originally posted by IG-64

when all else fails: work at mcdonalds. They give you a uniform and all you need is to... not, be, lazy.

 

the africans arent lazy.... there stupid :D they don't live good because they don't want to. Idiots, do they not see the light?

 

Yeah, I'm sure when a manager at any given McDonalds has a choice between hiring a smelly, dirty clothes wearing, scraggly bearded guy, or a big titted young blonde chearleader type, he'll make the right choice. :rolleyes:

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Easy SpecialForces...

 

Anyways, he may have lowered taxes...for his rich buddy buds. He completly screwed over the average working wo/man. He's a rich biased moron with an obsession of cleaning up his daddy's dirty work that Clinton ignored.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

ok listen up you ****ed up democrats...

 

So the democrats that aren't ****ed up can ignore you? :p

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

There is a threat! he is sending the US troops to take care of it

 

What's a threat? To whom? Iraq was a threat to only it's own people. There is was more reason to pre-emptively attack North Korea or Israel than Iraq. Face it, Iraq presented an easy target for Amercian rage over 9/11 and an opportunity for Bush and Co. to gain a few approval points (though this will likely backfire). Oil is a serious consideration as well.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

Less taxes mean MORE ****ING MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ****ING EARNED IT!!!

 

So who pays for all the social programs and the illegal war in Iraq? (I say illegal since Bush violated the Constitution in going to war). Nearly a $100 billion in military actions in just under a year. "No kid gets left behind" as long as we can afford it, right?

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

this is america, if you live an a ****ing getto and you life sucks THATS YOUR OWN god damn fault!

 

Really? That's very telling of your own ignorance. I suggest an education to overcome that handicap. A good start would be Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism by Richard H. Robbins. Through this text, you'll see that poverty and social injustice is not as clearly delineated as you might like to believe.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

And if it wasnt for the rich the dumb, druged up, lazy, and people that just dont want to be rich WOUDNT HAVE JOBS!!!!

 

You mean the 1 percent of the country that controls 38 percent of the nation's wealth? The remainder of the nation's workforce should be greatful for the privilage of shining their shoes and digging their ditches? Those "dumb, druged up, lazy people" that "don't want to work" put more hours of work into a week in jobs that are signifcantly more demanding calorically than nearly every one of those in the 1 percent. Again, telling of your ignorance.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

LET ME KNOW if you dont agree and I WILL TRY to set you strait

 

I don't think you are yet capable of setting anyone straight, bubba. But you are more than welcome to attempt it.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

And dont reply like a pussy and just bitch about what I think!

 

Let's let that be the extent of your profanity here please. Anything beyond this will be considered "excessive" and against forum rules.

 

By the way... I'm not a Democrat.

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There is a threat! he is sending the US troops to take care of it

 

Threat? North Korea is more of a threat. At least they are preparing a nuclear program..to this day there were few(if any) nukes found in Iraq.

 

Less taxes mean MORE ****ING MONEY FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ****ING EARNED IT!!!

 

Eh? Yes, less taxes. Let them have more money, while the children get bad education(public schools have extremely limited funds..although over in California we could blame it on Gray Davis..)

 

this is america, if you live an a ****ing getto and you life sucks THATS YOUR OWN god damn fault!

 

Gee, I thought I was spoiled. Not everybody can get a good job. Some are born into familys that HAVE NO HOME, that CANNOT GET A GOOD EDUCATION.

 

And if it wasnt for the rich the dumb, druged up, lazy, and people that just dont want to be rich WOUDNT HAVE JOBS!!!!

 

They may not want to be rich, but they also want to live alright. As well, the "rich" didnt get rich by giving the average person good jobs, they get rich by cutting up people's saleries and giving monthly bonus' to themselves.

 

Believe me, I was in a private school until my dad was laid off(not fired, mind you) from his job. And all this was because another company bought the company he was working for, and was laid off due to cutting funding.

 

If you work hard you should keep your own ****ING money that you yourself earned by NOT being lazy in school and USEING your brain.

 

Alot of people are lazy, I give you that. But as well, not everyone can get the education they deserve, as well because they were born into poor families, they will have to work much harder than you would, for half or less pay, all because they have were born into the lower class of society.

 

And this mexican imagrint crap is rediculous...

I dont mind them elegally comming over here but the US GOVERNMENT GIVING THEM FREE MONEY is RETARDED!

stop this wellfare crap!!!

 

Yep. Let the rich get richer and the poor poorer...They're born into extremely poor families, with almost no education, and they have to COMPETE with fellow immigrants for menial jobs.

 

I work VERY hard at school and im strugling wo keep fairly good grades so I know it isnt easy.

 

I am getting good grades too(a's and b's), but for us it's as easy as pie. You dont have to get a job afterschool to help your family get paid. You actually have a good chance to get into college.

 

And dont reply like a pussy and just bitch about what I think!

 

This is the serious discussion forum, in other words we bitch to each other daily. :p

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As you may or may not know, Scandinavia consists of welfare states (I live in one of them).

 

It isn't all utopian bliss over here, and much of what SF says is actually true to a certain extent, and outlines the problems with our welfare states. Of course, he's doing much hyperbole and condemning.

 

Over here (Denmark) we pay about 50-60% in taxes, with an added 25% in taxes on the price of every commodity you buy. There is the same free healthcare for everyone, and likewise can everyone retire around the age of 65 (with it being paid for by the state). Education is free (and mandatory), and students from the age of 18 get free money as a supplement from the state each month, to live for. There are numerous welfare benefits for the unemployed and parents, for instance. The benefits are nearly all universal, meaning the same amount of money regardless of how much people work - which means that yes, a very wealthy person without a job would get money from the state.

 

Well, does our society work then? Currently, very much so. Does it work as intended? That's debatable.

 

Even with our communist tax rates, we still have a school system in ruins, long queues in hospitals and a lack of decent care of our elders. Because of the tax pressure, many people opt for moonlighting, which is a huge benefit both for the employee and the employer. People are still born into poverty and we have trouble integrating immigrants into our society, with ghettos as the result. Successful companies retreat to the other side of the border to escape taxes. One could say we support the welfare state when we're at the voting booths, but betray it in our daily lives.

 

Sorry for the off topic rant, but some people may be interested in this information.

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Right, I came to the conclusion that you live in a sheltered, upper class conservative box when I read this...

same goes for a poor adault.... under $50,000 in the bank.

 

Seriously... how many people do you know that have 50 grand sitting in the bank somewhere? My parents are very well off (enough so to put me through school) but they don't have 50Gs just chilling.

 

Just because someone has less than this doesn't mean they're poor. This is just some advice from outside in reality. Ask your folks, they'll probably agree.

 

Anyway, I had just gotten over the initial surprise of reading the above comment. And then I read this one...

 

BTW: all democrats are f'ed up in my book... well only if you liked clinton or gore...

 

When you start making blanket statements like this, I stop taking you seriously. Turn off Rush Limbaugh for a few minutes and consider the other side every now and then. I'm not affiliated with any party, but I make it a point to listen to each side. Do you?

 

In any case, I stopped reading with any interest at that point.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

public school is free......

there are extreamly cheap if not free colages too...

and this is a democracy, if you work hard you surly can get into a "higher" class

 

uh, you dont know that.... I work at Albertons for free to help them out.

 

lol

First off there is no such thing as a free education.

Even if you don't pay to be IN school, you still have to pay to use it, such as school supplies, learning expenses such as books at college, high school study books (I've had to pay over $120 dollars for a book in American History), not to mention Literature class you have to buy the novels (atleast in Texas schools), Project supplies.

 

Second there is NO free college. ALL colleges (even community) require payment.

 

Third, I don't see how you could be doing too good in school when your spelling, grammar, and social skills are so dramatically torn. Or maybe you were just pissed off and in a rush, I have been known to make mistakes.

 

PS: I don't mean to be the asshole that picks on grammar and spelling it's just when he says he works hard in school and is passing and I see him constantly making mistakes I just wish to point it out. I'm also certain I've made many mistakes in my post too (so feel free to comment), But I'm always willing to better myself. Also Special Forces I don't wish to make you harbour any ill feelings toward me, I just hope you can present a calmer, more socially acceptable attitude.

 

Bushes True Colors

 

 

Just so you know, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal democrat. I'm just a human being with compassion and an open mind. Also, I stick to no party. I select a good person based on their character. One year it could be a republican, one year it could be a green party member, the next year it could be a Democrat.

 

 

Also not everyone is capable of reaching higher status. Also reaching higher class involves risk, not everyone is able to take financial risk. Many people have familial responsiblities, they cannot risk their children in the small chance that they will succeed and move up the ladder. Also America is not a democracy, it is a democratic-REPUBLIC, meaning we elect people to speak for us, though often they end up just speaking for themselves in order to get money.

 

Also I live near and around some moderately wealthy people, people who can buy very nice cars and homes and such but none of them ever have even 50 grand in the bank, care to guess why? Because they pay taxes, they have kids (kids are money vampires as I'm sure many adults here know), they purchase goods (food, clothes, entertainment items), they also have to pay insurance. Those things take away considerable amounts of money.

 

Census Recording of National Income

 

1999 American Census

Income

 

The 1999 median income level for the nation's households rose, in real

terms, by 2.7 percent, from $39,744 in 1998 to $40,816.

that's just the income, now subtract living costs and basic items people desire and buy.

 

 

This makes me highly doubt the cut-off for being rich is $50,000.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

there is a threat, dont you listen to the news, not just tv but internet, newspaper, and radio?

 

Oh, there's a threat. But it just wasn't from Iraq. That's were Bush proved how f'ed up he is. Rather than put our resources into squashing the terrorist threat, he has basically ignored it in favor of a soveriegn country that happened to have a particularly nasty dictator. That's not exactly a new or unique problem to the world.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

They found lots of terorist training camps, and allot of people killing themselves to try to kill our troops, and allot of people there are propagandized by sadam insane, to hate the US...

you might not know it but soon you will... there has been allot of proof that terorism came from there...

 

Actually there is just about zero evidence that terrorists were in any way sponsored or tolerated by the Iraqi government. The terrorist training camps you speak of were mostly in Afgahnistan, though there were a few in Northern Iraq. Interestingly enough, that part of Iraq has been out of Sadaam's control and influance since 1991. Who controled it? The coalition and the Kurds. Ironic, eh?

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

And North Karea isnt the problem right now its Iraq, you cant judge BUSH untill you know what he knows and thats imposible...

 

It's because of Bush's secrecy and deception that I judge him. North Korea is a significant problem. Unlike Iraq, they have weapons of mass destruction, namely nuclear capability. They also have missile technology that can reach the West Coast of California if not the Mid-Western U.S. They can certainly reach Japan and South Korea. I've stood on the DMZ there... North Korea has been a significant threat since the 1950's.

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Originally posted by SkinWalker

North Korea is a significant problem. Unlike Iraq, they have weapons of mass destruction, namely nuclear capability. They also have missile technology that can reach the West Coast of California if not the Mid-Western U.S. They can certainly reach Japan and South Korea. I've stood on the DMZ there... North Korea has been a significant threat since the 1950's.

I believe that was a significant reason for the Korean War, not only to "Free" South Korea (which is still having liberation issues with the U.S. AND North Korea) but also to ensure North Korea doesn't gain too much land to use as launch platforms for their long-range missles, It was a safety measure to ensure the West Coast and parts of the Mid-West weren't bombed and taken over by the Koreans. Korea has and will be a threat until a treaty is established. If I were Bush I would have put money efforts into establishing a treaty with North Korea. Also if we are going to liberate someone I suggest we finish our liberation work in Korea.
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Originally posted by InsaneSith

I believe that was a significant reason for the Korean War, not only to "Free" South Korea (which is still having liberation issues with the U.S. AND North Korea) but also to ensure North Korea doesn't gain too much land to use as launch platforms for their long-range missles, It was a safety measure to ensure the West Coast and parts of the Mid-West weren't bombed and taken over by the Koreans. Korea has and will be a threat until a treaty is established. If I were Bush I would have put money efforts into establishing a treaty with North Korea. Also if we are going to liberate someone I suggest we finish our liberation work in Korea.

 

A TREATY? With the North Koreans? Are you mad? They violated the last one which stipulated they couldn't make nukes in exchange for i believe certain aid.

 

We'd have trouble taking care of North Korea, because we'd then have to fight China in the process. Not a good plan right now.

 

On that note..

 

I forgot to respond to something by Skinwalker...

 

While in your view Fox News is not a reliable source, which you are entitled to believe, I therefore reserve the right to call The Nation, the BBC, MSNBC, and CNN all untrustworthy since all of them and Fox News are all biased to a degree. (Proof enough is last night on the O'Reilly Factor when a particular Nation editor launched into a.. 3 minutes propaganda speech against Bush on the program when he wasn't even the actual topic.)

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Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel

While in your view Fox News is not a reliable source, which you are entitled to believe, I therefore reserve the right to call The Nation, the BBC, MSNBC, and CNN all untrustworthy since all of them and Fox News are all biased to a degree.

 

FYI, in Europe, CNN is widely regarded as being very rightwing-friendly :p

 

Haven't seen much of the others, but CNN does strike me as being perhaps a bit too patriotic and "Hollywood news" (fanfares everywhere and news summaries lasting all of 3 seconds) leaning.

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Originally posted by C'jais

FYI, in Europe, CNN is widely regarded as being very rightwing-friendly :p

 

Haven't seen much of the others, but CNN does strike me as being perhaps a bit too patriotic and "Hollywood news" (fanfares everywhere and news summaries lasting all of 3 seconds) leaning.

 

Here, a good number of people believe it's biased to the left. Go figure.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

korea is a threat but there not attacking us are they!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

That's the kind of hypocritical thinking that makes me despise this whole pro-war rally. You say Iraq is a threat, and invade, (but they weren't attacking us) yet you say that Korea is a threat but not attacking us so we won't invade them. Now as many a people have said before me... "WHAT THE F*CK!?!"
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Originally posted by SpecialForces

same goes for a poor adault.... under $50,000 in the bank.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

And what I meant (should have made it absolutly clear) is that if you make $50,000 a year not in the bank at the end of the year.

 

Well which is it?

 

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

Its lame to post insaults when you have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe you should think about that next time you come in here and curse at others. ;)

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

HAVENT YOU SEEN THE TRANSLATED MOVIES OF HIM TELLING PEOPLE TO BLOW UP AMERICANS!!!!!!!!

No, I can't honestly say I have seen them.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

OMG your patheticly defending who is abviously a terorist andwho has RAPED thousands of women to piss off husbands of them....

do you want me to go into all the **** he has done NOT because I think it was a reason for us to hunt him down but because its insane that you are DEFENDING HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OMFG

 

Out of this entire thread I have not ONCE seen Skinwalker defend Saddam Husein. Please before you make statements make sure they are truthful and reliable and if others do not know it please give proof especially when stating things about other members to back up your case.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

go spend some time in IRAQ and see how much thoughs insane sadam insane humping terorists love Americans!!!!

you will die!!!!!!

 

Ok, I have a friend (he's white) that went to Iraq 2 years ago and he wasn't shot at once nor was he even looked at funny. So either these people changed their global attitude just for him or maybe it's just that you exaggerate the hatred of Iraqi's.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

Lol what do you want? will you not be satisfied there are terorists in iraq until your mom getts killed by sadem insane himself or something?

 

I'm simply stating that there is no evidence to support the idea that Iraq was a sponsor of terrorism. There is a more likely threat that Bin Laden himself will kill my mother than Saddam Hussein. That's the guy and his organization that I wanted our government to expend time, effort and my tax dollars on getting.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

Even if sadam insane didnt control the many terorist camps that the us troops found he wasnt letting us destroy them.

 

They (I think two) were abandoned. In fact, there was only anecdotal evidence that the camps were used for the training of terrorists. So in essence, there is no evidence that Saddam's government sponsered terrorist activities outside of his country or allowed training to occur within.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

And he was a terrorist threat HAVENT YOU SEEN THE TRANSLATED MOVIES OF HIM TELLING PEOPLE TO BLOW UP AMERICANS!!!!!!!!

 

I've only seen accounts of Saddam and Bath party leaders instructing others to attack Americans after the war began.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

OMG your patheticly defending who is abviously a terorist andwho has RAPED thousands of women to piss off husbands of them....

 

I'm not defending Saddam Hussein, son. He was a bad person. No doubt about it. But the world is full of bad people who are in a position to kill and rape their own citizens.

 

What I am defending is the truth. The truth is, our action against Iraq is detrimental to our country. We should have focused on the terrorists, particularly those controled by Bin Laden. Instead, we picked on an easy target. One that is not unique in his ruthless tyranny, but one that everyone is aware of enough that approval ratings might be positively affected.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

lol, listen with an open mind man...

 

Actually, I think I'm the objective one between you and I. It appears that you simply buy into whatever right-wing propaganda is given to you without question. I, on the other hand, question the validity of just about everything I read or hear in the media, whether it be from the so-called right or the so-called left. What the media and the government gives us is the propaganda more than we like to believe.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

if you cant, go spend some time in IRAQ and see how much thoughs insane sadam insane humping terorists love Americans!!!!

 

I've been there. In fact, I personally killed quite a few Iraqi's. I've seen their brutality first hand. I've seen the mindless destruction that humanity is capable of and the lack of compassion that Saddam loyalists can have on their fellow Muslims.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

you will die!!!!!!

 

Not even close.

 

Originally posted by SpecialForces

and do you want a world war 3??? korea is a threat but there not attacking us are they!?

 

Do you miss the ignorance in your statement? You are suggesting that Iraq was attacking us? Or that they did attack us?

 

Do you not realize that Saddam was but one of many world leaders that is/was exploiting their own citizens? Do you not realize the precedent that is set by legitimizing "preemptive strike" against a sovereign nation? Do you not see that by our own standard, now we should commit American soldiers and marines to go to any country that is violating the human rights of it's citizens and possibly in possession of WMDs?

 

Do you not see that this includes N. Korea, Syria, Congo, Liberia, Somalia, Zibabwe, Chechnya, Indonesia, and Israel?

 

Stop making ignorant, unthinking statements and start looking at the world with a critical eye. Patriotism isn't accepting your government's actions and policies blindly. It's ensuring that your governement is benefiting your country's citizens.

 

George W. Bush might be a nice guy and very personable... but I say he's traitor to the American people and has sold out to corporate interests.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

sorry for the bad spelling I dont have the time to care, lol...

 

Of course, you're too busy hurling insults like confetty at a wedding at anyone 'ignorant' enough to think*cough*know*cough* Bush is an idiot and isn't competent enough to control a small village milita, much less the most powerful force in the world.

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Originally posted by SpecialForces

but I dont think he would be a traitor.

He is under tons of preasure, he had to call his bluf, and no one is perfect, not even you :)

Ok, see, the problem here is that George W. Bush isn't your average Joe Blow. He's the President of the United States of America. That's not some backwater desk job somewhere in North Dakota. It is perhaps the most influential seat to hold in the entire world. If he is not able to answer the call of duty, to go above and beyond mediocre thought process, then he is not qualified to be in the position he is in.

 

News flash: You can't be president. You know why? Because not just anyone can do the job. The system may be set up in a fashion so that it is possible, but there is a difference between theory and application.

 

Bush isn't particuarly stupid. But he's not particuarly smart either. He may make mistakes, yes. That is true. But you just don't accidently blow up a country. If he is not able to deal with such a sensitive job, he should just not be there.

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In all honesty, I wasn't old enough to really appreciate or understand the things Clinton did. Bush is the first president I have ever actually followed closely.

 

But I can say that I choose Clinton over Bush for this reason: Clinton was only caught lying about an affair. Bush has been caught lying about a war. Even if Clinton is a bigger liar than Bush, at least he was a better one.

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Originally posted by MasterSidious

Hell ya! Agreed. if you don't think this you're ****ing dumb. LOL

 

Please leave now.

 

and that thing about social skills is just ****. Its lame to post insaults when you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Take your own advice here...

 

well, in California all books andstuf are paid for with taxes. I myself didnt need to buy anything... are you talking about if you losea book you have to pay or something?

 

He was talking about college. You know, beyond middle school?

 

Look, I'm as patriotic as the next guy. I love my country, and I'll gladly fly the flag. But Bush made a mistake with Iraq. I'm not saying he did it knowingly. After all, all leaders get bad intel, and he may have just gone with what he had. Saddam Hussein had the same problem. People were scared to tell him what he didn't want to hear, so they just told him what he did. There you have it, bad intel. You think that might not happen with Bush?

 

I'm not in his shoes, so I'm not as quick to judge. But, whether his intentions were good or not, he screwed up by driving the country into war. He claimed that there were WMDs in Iraq, and we believed him. Heck, I certainly wouldn't want Saddam to have his hands on a nuke. And now we've been there for months, and so far, no nukes. No WMDs of any kind!

 

Its not the nuculear weapons that matter its the type of people that want to kill us and to what extent they will go.

 

Ohh, no no no. Bush clearly stated that one of his reasons for invasion was to search out and destroy Saddams WMDs. There were none. It's true, he did claim that Saddam was harboring terrorists. But what evidence did he present? "Because I said so." Sorry, that's not great. Of course, NOW there's terrorists there. Any country in strife will attract terrorists, who will use it to advance their cause.

 

sorry for the bad spelling I dont have the time to care, lol...

 

Har har, how witty and clever of you. Unfortunatley, everyone else does. It's tough when we have to read words like "desizions" , "colage", and (my favorite) "imfasis." Is it so hard to use a dictionary or run your post through spellcheck? I mean, pobody's nerfect, but damn....

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