George W. Bush: Pros & Cons

[IG-64]

Originally posted by Samuel Dravis

I think he was just trying to be pointlessly inflammatory, spouting the first thing he thought about.

 

OR

 

He accidentally posted that.

 

Besides, doesn't this belong in the Senate Chambers?

 

Well, before he decides to be pointlessly infammatory he should know more about the subject

 

global warming has gotten better over the years, and is still rebuilding itself, so if anything George is helping global warming, wtg count

 

being a texas citizen, I sure have noticed the increase in texas flames but I just ignore it because I think George is great and I think Texas is great too.

 

and for the monkey thing, he does kinda look like a monkey, but monkeys being the smartest animal. J/K, but you do realise you can do that with just about everybody. He does look like a monkey though

[Tyrion]

Arent dolphins the most intellegent animals(or fish..they're mammals IIRC). All monkeys do is scratch thier asses.

 

 

But in The Count's defense, I'm sure he's talking about not signing the Kyoto Agreement.

[Kylilin]

I think it was good move on behalf of the President. I mean, who was the last President to actually go to a country that we were actually at war with while we were still at war? I couldn't even tell you. Maybe Lincoln, when he surveyed the battlefield at the the first Bull Run.

 

As for Iraq, its not not shaping up well. But we have to finish the job of helping them restructure their country. And by help, I mean just that. Not installing our own puppet government, although I don't see how that would be possible anyway. The other middle eastern countries would see right through that ploy.

 

Let's face it, Saddam needed to be removed. The way we went about it was all wrong. We as American citizens really didn't need a false reason for going to get him. The government could have told us that we were going to remove him because he doesn't like oreos, and we would have agreed. I know a lot of people want to have all our troops pulled out of there, but this is an impossibility. We went in there without UN approval, and now we have to clean up the mess we made, its that simple.

 

BTW, Happy Turkey Day, I hope everyone had a great day.

God Bless America. and for all you brits who enjoy hating us Americans, God Save the Queen.

[Neverhoodian]

George W. ("Dubya") Bush is not the worst president America has ever had, but he's not the best either. Even though his handling of the war in Iraq, foreign relations and the econonmy to name a few are lacking, America is still plugging away. Even if he's re-elected, it's safe to assume it won't be the end of the world.

 

That said, I kind of hope someone new gets elected.

[IG-64]

Originally posted by Kylilin

I think it was good move on behalf of the President. I mean, who was the last President to actually go to a country that we were actually at war with while we were still at war? I couldn't even tell you. Maybe Lincoln, when he surveyed the battlefield at the the first Bull Run.

 

As for Iraq, its not not shaping up well. But we have to finish the job of helping them restructure their country. And by help, I mean just that. Not installing our own puppet government, although I don't see how that would be possible anyway. The other middle eastern countries would see right through that ploy.

 

Let's face it, Saddam needed to be removed. The way we went about it was all wrong. We as American citizens really didn't need a false reason for going to get him. The government could have told us that we were going to remove him because he doesn't like oreos, and we would have agreed. I know a lot of people want to have all our troops pulled out of there, but this is an impossibility. We went in there without UN approval, and now we have to clean up the mess we made, its that simple.

 

BTW, Happy Turkey Day, I hope everyone had a great day.

God Bless America. and for all you brits who enjoy hating us Americans, God Save the Queen.

 

I seriously couldn't agree with you more on those points

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel

Clinton's failure was significant because the Sudanese government basically called up and said: "We have OBL in our sights and can get him for you."

 

True. But the Sudanese government was also named as a sponser of terrorism itself. In addition, there was an intel tip at around the same time that the Sudanese government was planning to to assassinate President Bill Clinton's national security adviser, Anthony Lake. (Gellman, 2001) This was later considered a non-credible threat, but at the time it had to be considered.

 

Moreover, at that point, Bin Laden wasn't solidly linked to the death of any American. Wouldn't it seem likely that the US courts would have difficulty prosecuting him? The alternative was to try and convince King Fahd and the Saudi government to prosecute (and behead) Bin Laden. The Saudi's refused to get involved, probably in fear of an uprising or martyrdom.

 

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel

... that Clinton knew OBL was dreaming up terror plots. Something along those lines.

 

I think knew is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps suspected, but where would our principles be if we dispatched "justice" to those whom we suspect of harming us? Also, I don't think I ever recalled hearing or reading where Ijaz or Morris stated that any clear indication was made to the Clinton admin about specific, or even general, impending attacks by Bin Laden. I've seen them both interview at various points on CNN, FoxNews, et al and I've read several articles where they are quoted. The Vanity Fair article with Ijaz maybe?

 

Certainly, things would have been better off had something "happened" to Bin Laden back then. But that clearly wasn't an honorable option. Also, Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him. His government doubled counterterrorist spending across 40 departments and agencies (Benjamin, 2002).

 

Originally posted by Lathain Valtiel

I'll see if i can find it.. it was on Fox News awhile ago.

 

Now there's an unbiased source

 

Too often we see only the facts that support what we want to believe. The fact is that Clinton made some mistakes. Perhaps they weren't considered mistakes by the admin at the time, but it's clear that an illegal and immoral action of assasination on Bin Laden then would have saved a lot of American lives.

 

The Clinton admin is over.

 

Now we have an administration that is systematically re-writing foreign policy (with pre-emptive strikes, etc.) and systematically removing the rights of citizens (Patriot act and its successor). In addition, favor is given to the rich and elite minority while the less affluent and more impoverished majority of our country feels it. Hard.

 

Of all the money and resources wasted on the war in Iraq could have been put to use on catching Bin Laden.

 

References:

Gellman, Barton (October 4, 2001) U.S. Was Foiled Multiple Times in Efforts To Capture Bin Laden or Have Him Killed; Sudan's Offer to Arrest Militant Fell Through After Saudis Said No, Washington Post.

 

Benjamin, Daniel -Senior Fellow Center for Strategic and International Studies (April 16, 2002). Testimony before the Subcommittee on National Security, Veterans Affairs and International Relation Of the House Committee on Government Reform

[SkinWalker]

And the Re-Election Campaign Begins!

 

I'm against most of what Bush and Co. stand for, but I have to say that if I were one of the soldiers stationed in Iraq today, I would have been pleasantly surprised to see the Commander in Chief walk in the door!

 

And I would have had my photo taken with him like many of those soldiers did.

 

I probably wouldn't have been able to resist a set of "rabbit ears" for El Prez, though.......

[Darth Rythe]

I think George is doing a good job for what Iraq is putting him up for.

[Elijah]

Originally posted by IG-64

Well, before he decides to be pointlessly infammatory he should know more about the subject

I like you IG ;-) good call!

 

global warming has gotten better over the years, and is still rebuilding itself, so if anything George is helping global warming, wtg count

ownt

 

being a texas citizen, I sure have noticed the increase in texas flames but I just ignore it because I think George is great and I think Texas is great too.

I agree with everything besides me being from texas... although I've thought of moving there for a year or so...

 

but you do realise you can do that with just about everybody. He does look like a monkey though

I was going to say the exact same thing... take any single person who is on TV or has as many pictures as bush, and you could probly find at least one occasion where he looks like an animal.

[IG-64]

your too kind ZDawg

 

and, bongo, people here that are poor are usually just too lazy to get themselves money. if anything we should be helping people in africa. George Bush is doing a nice thing helping people we "don't care about" because they were living in a poorly run country and need to be pampered

 

it's not all about how much popularity cares about them, its how much they need help.

[Darth Rythe]

Originally posted by BongoBob

*looks at the monkey comaprisons*

*looks again:

I never realised how much he looked like a monkey

 

One thing I don't get about Bush is this(not meant to be flaming or anything). Why in the name of hell are we helping a country that no-one really cares about and sending them tons of money to help rebiuld and everything, when we have kids that are going hungry for heat or shelter or clothes, and many with no school or are HS drop outs? Sorry if I offended anyone, if so just say so and I'll delete this post but I mean, come on.

 

Because he can, and they blew s*** up, oh hang on that was the afganies...I don't know why.

[Elijah]

Originally posted by IG-64

George Bush is doing a nice thing helping people we "don't care about" because they were living in a poorly run country and need to be pampered

 

it's not all about how much popularity cares about them, its how much they need help.

WORD.

[Kurgan]

The war in Iraq COULD be a lot worse, I give thanks for that (with the talk of rumors that the draft might be coming back, I shudder at how bad it may be going that the media isn't reporting).

 

But I really think Bush is going to lose the next election. Trying his best or not, he's done a lot of unpopular things in his presidency and failed to accomplish a lot of the things he promised to do (like many a recent politician).

 

I predict he'll be a one-termer like his dad.

 

 

Happy Thanksgiving! (Good luck to the troops, may you come home safe and sound)

[SkinWalker]

Originally posted by IG-64

global warming has gotten better over the years, and is still rebuilding itself, so if anything George is helping global warming

 

Are you saying that it's gotten warmer or it hasn't? Global warming is "rebuilding itself?" Dubya is helping?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/antarctic/story/0,13993,1085643,00.html

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-11/20/content_1189363.htm

 

http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/11/18/1069027115562.html

[edlib]

Originally posted by Kylilin

I mean, who was the last President to actually go to a country that we were actually at war with while we were still at war?

Nixon in Vietnam.

G.H.W. Bush visited the troops in Saudi Arabia during the Gulf War.

 

I don't at all support this current Administration, but I do support the troops and I have to admit I think this was pretty cool of him.

It will clearly become re-election campaign PR fodder, unfortunately for his opponents, but it was obviously a good morale builder for the folks making the sacrifices over in Iraq.

 

I don't hate Bush the man. I think he honestly belives in the rightness of the actions he is taking. I do question the wiseness of many of those actions.

 

The rest of his administration staff (Rove, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Rice, etc... with the sole possible exculsion of Colin Powell) scare the HELL out of me, however. These are the folks I will be voting against in the next election, not nessisarily Bush.

[The Count]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Global warming is Bush's fault? Dont get me wrong, I dont like him as a president, and I dont agree with the war....but global warming? Explain because i've never heard that before.

 

 

He refused to ratify the Kyoto agreement which proposed to try and combat the ever looming threat of Global Warming.

[Guest Jed]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Are you saying that it's gotten warmer or it hasn't? Global warming is "rebuilding itself?" Dubya is helping?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/antarctic/story/0,13993,1085643,00.html

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-11/20/content_1189363.htm

 

http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/11/18/1069027115562.html

 

Oh Skin, I love ya

 

But yea, it was a good move doing that for the troops...we all know they need some sort of encouragement.

[IG-64]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

Are you saying that it's gotten warmer or it hasn't? Global warming is "rebuilding itself?" Dubya is helping?

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/antarctic/story/0,13993,1085643,00.html

 

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2003-11/20/content_1189363.htm

 

http://www.theage.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2003/11/18/1069027115562.html

 

yes, global warming is getting better (dying out, if your that ignorant), and, I said "if anything" in response to the ridiculous post that the count made: "Try saying this to all the people who are suffering as a result of global warming or those families who have lost members fighting his war in Iraq."

 

its obvious GB has nothing to do with global warming and if he did he would be helping it. Thats all i'm saying.

[griff38]

George W Bush is at least the most unelelcted president in this countries history, at worst he is a criminal who stole the election.

 

The truth most likely is somewhere in between.

As a person I am sure Bush is an honest sincere man. But he is more than just a man, he is the leader of the most powerful force that has ever existed in human history.

 

This puts a little more responsibility on him than the rest of us.

But instead of living up to this responsibility he has surrounded himself with arrogant self righteous zealots and myopic beurucrats who not only feed him false information but lead him away from Democracy and fairness that has been a halmark of our country.

 

But hey you people reading this right now who favor Bush must be thinking, "griff your just another bleeding heart liberal who cares what you think".

 

I understand, Read instead this resignation letter from a hardcore Republican former Govonor who serverd for a time under Bush.

"When you honored me by asking me to join your Cabinet as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, I didn't know the title would be ironic. I naively assumed the post would have something to do with protecting the environment, as opposed to protecting the bottom line of your campaign contributors. If I am ever to sleep at night again, I have no choice other than to send you this letter. I remember the lump I felt in my throat back in 1973 when Elliot Richardson resigned his Cabinet post rather than acquiesce to Richard Nixon's demand that he fire Watergate prosecutor Archibald Cox. I had the same reaction seven years later when Cyrus Vance also took a principled stand and resigned as secretary of state in protest over President Carter's military action in Iran.

And since I cannot face the prospect of looking my children in the eye and explaining why I stood by while the president I served was selling out their health, the health of their children and the health of our planet, I respectfully submit my resignation -- and bid you goodbye."

 

Christine Todd Whitman, chief administrator at the EPA for two and a half years, Former New Jersey governor, resigned on May 20, 2003.

[SkinWalker]

The oil and petroleum industry funds conservative groups, who lobby against efforts to control carbon dioxide emissions, the main cause of global warming. These same groups and industries are also major contributors to Bush's campaigns (past and present).

 

When Bush first came to power he withdrew the US - the world's biggest source of greenhouse gases - from the Kyoto treaty, which requires nations to limit their emissions.

 

Both Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney are former oil executives; National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice was a director of the oil firm Chevron, and Commerce Secretary Donald Evans once headed an oil and gas exploration company.

 

Bush's staff insisted on major amendments to the climate change section of an environmental survey of the US, published last June. Some of the changes include deleting a summary that stated: 'Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment.' Sections on the ecological effects of global warming and its impact on human health were removed. So were several sentences calling for further research on climate change.

 

In a recent News and Commentary article in Nature 424, 715 (14 August 2003), an article ran with the title: Bush accused of power abuse over science. It outlines the report put together for Representative Henry Waxman, the ranking member of the committee on government reform, called Politics and Science in the Bush Administration (.pdf).

 

At the very least, Bush and co. are not helping the Global Warming issue. It's very likely, given the evidence, that the Bush administration cares little about the long term future of the world's climate and more with the short term ability to pocket some change and keep what they've already pocketed.

 

As a president, Bush might not be a "turkey" at all... but he certainly appears to be a vulture.

 

As to whether Global Warming is "getting better," see the following quote from Discovery News (Nov. 24, 2003):

 

In the Arctic there has been a net loss of 20 percent loss of the sea ice over the last 20 years — which is a faster rate then seen over the entire 30-year record. Since the early 1980s the Arctic has lost an Arizona-sized amount of sea ice each decade, according to a report on the work that appears in the journal Geophysical Research Letters. That's nearly 116,000 square miles of sea ice lost each decade.

 

Global Warming is a real threat and it is getting more serious every day.

[Kain]

Geedbuyah caused Texas to become to most populated state in the union. If I was offered to be his Administrator of Environmental Protection, I'd of never accepted the offer. Hell, I'd of sooner smashed my hand into dust with a cinder block than even consider it.

 

I honostly think he's gonna screw America over hardcore before his term runs out.

[XERXES]

heh, I think its awesome Bush went to Iraq like that....imagine the morale boost it gave the troops. **** all the Bush bandwagon haters out there, most dont even know what they are talking about...and try to act like they do by quoting others.

[IG-64]

Originally posted by SkinWalker

The oil and petroleum industry funds conservative groups, ...

 

I hate politics...

[CapNColostomy]

Originally posted by IG-64

people here that are poor are usually just too lazy to get themselves money. if anything we should be helping people in africa.

 

That may be one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read. I'm not trying to flame you, by any means. But alot of these "lazy" poor people you mentioned are homeless. Alot of them are children. Think about the average homeless person you've ever ran into (if you ever have), now think of some of their appearances, and sometimes odors. Those are direct results of not having a home. Now you're saying "why don't they get a job? Then they could have a home." When you were in school, did you not ever have a college career day type of thing? And if you did, did you ever hear the speaker say it was a good idea to wear filthy clothes, not bathe, or shave for weeks at a time when you go fill out job applications? No. And do you know why he never said that? BECAUSE NOBODY WILL GIVE YOU A JOB. And before anybody gives me any grief about it, I'm not including whinos and junkies. I got three words for them. Kick the habbit.

 

Now on to the bit about helping people in Africa. Why, exactley are people in Africa so much more befitting the help of the United States tax paying citizen than people anywhere else? Why do you not consider the poor people in Africa lazy? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping people, but don't you think that may be part of this nations problem? Always going off to "help" some country. The United States is constantly emerging from a telephone booth ripping its shirt open, and off it flies! Saving the day, somewhere else when there are plenty of things that need fixed right here at home. These, of course, are just my humble opinions. Sorry 'bout the rant.

[IG-64]

when all else fails: work at mcdonalds. They give you a uniform and all you need is to... not, be, lazy.

 

the africans arent lazy.... there stupid they don't live good because they don't want to. Idiots, do they not see the light?