Palpatine's Face

[Lorden Darkblade]

Ok, here is something I really have been thinking since I saw Revenge of the Sith.

I really hoped Palpatine got his face cuz of the Dark Side. I mean, in some of the Star Wars games like KotOR going to the Dark Side makes your face look really bad!

I really expected Palpatine to "show" his face when he was using the Force Lightining on Mace. Like if he was using the Force to hide it.

And not that Mace deflected the Lightning back to his face and deformed him...

I mean come on, then why Luke Skywalker didnt got all deformed when Palpatine used the Lightining on him?!

 

I really wanna hear what you guys have to say about this. Cuz everything I heard isnt good enough. :mad:

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

Might have been what happens when it is directed back on the user, kind of a short circuit type deal,

Or maybe he used more than the normal force lightning, and it accellerated DS decay or whatever,

I'm not the expert though;)

[Emperor Devon]

I think it was a combination of factors for both Luke and Palpatine.

 

Palpatine:

 

He got his own lightning deflected back on himself.

 

The Dark Side energies within him couldn't be held at bay forever. He had to get deformed at some point.

 

Luke:

 

Palptaine's lightning could've been weaker.

 

He managed to conjure up something of a defense (in the RotJ book).

 

The lightning was arcing over his body, not his face.

 

The good guys aren't allowed to look like Sith.

[Lorden Darkblade]

Honestly Devon, those ones dont make sence.

Only the one that he made a shield MAY be acceptable.

And if the lightning was over his body it should have been worse then just the face like Palpatine.

[RedHawke]

Well, it could have been a combination of factors...

 

From what I understand GL told Ian McDermid(sp?) that basically through EP 1 and EP 2 to treat the Palapatine character as if he were wearing a mask one that hides who he really is. He also could be older than he looks and when he was holding off Mace he had to drop his disguise... later he claimed that fighting the Jedi deformed him, it also garnered him extra kudos from the senate.

 

Also the Force Lightning issue, attacking someone with force lightning would not deform the victim, though the victim will be a little crispy, but it might deform the conjurer, or drop a possible disguise, if reflected back onto them.

 

Remember Dooku and Anakin never had deformed complexions, at worst Anakin only had the eye thing going... also if you look at Anakins face when Luke removes his helmet there are scars but no Corrupting Force wrinkles... so the Corrupting Force thing leading to pasty undead looking Sith is thrown out the window.

 

Personally, I feel the Palapatine character was a lot older than he appeared, and merely dropped his disguise during the fight with Mace, that would explain a lot, for me anyway.

 

Just my theory!

[Char Ell]

It doesn't seem too far fetched to me to think that force lightning deflected by lightsaber back to the originating Sith would cause some sort of feedback loop, with resulting deformation to the Sith's face. I think the close proximity of Mace Windu and Darth Sidious factored heavily as well.

 

As I recall from the movies, there were two or three other uses of force lightning. In Ep. 2, Obi-wan Kenobi used his lightsaber to absorb Count Dooku's force lightning attack (after he saw Anakin get fried). Then when Yoda came on the scene he actually absorbed/deflected Count Dooku's force lighting attack with his bare three-fingered hands (I personally thought Yoda was absorbing the energy from the force lightning attack, just chargin up his batteries so he could transform into the whirling dervish that Dooku couldn't deal with). In Ep. 3, Yoda used his hands again when he battled Darth Sidious in the Senate chamber and Sidious used force lightning on him. In none of these instances do we see any resulting deformation to Sith or Jedi but in none of these instances are the two opponents nearly as close to each other as Mace and Sidious were.

 

Besides, GL needed some mechanism to transform the normal looking Palpatine into the butt ugly Emperor we see in ESB and ROTJ, right?

 

Wouldn't it be cool for a KOTOR III to have a feat or force power that allowed a force wielding character the ability to use a lightsaber to stop force lightning attacks?

[Venom750]

I think RedHawke touch on this but i think Palpatine was always wearing makeup to cover up his face and the Darkside effects and the force lighting melted it off and he used mace Windu attack as an excuse to reveal his DS features.

[THE VIGILANTE]

I agree with Venom750 and Emperor Devon.

 

I read somewhere that when you use Force Lightning, you tend to lose control of where you're aiming. Count Dooku could be a possible exception to this rule since he had experience.

 

In other words, Palpatine could direct his lightning to a certain person but, he couldn't get a direct hit on specific body parts (i.e - the face).

 

Secondly, Palpy's force lightning attack on RotJ was cut short when Vader betrayed him so Luke didn't get affected as much as he could have been.

[Smilodon]

Perhaps it's where the focus of the lightning was sent to. In Ep VI, Palapatine unleashes his lightning onto Luke's hole body, it's kinda spread and not directed to any specific "point" (like Dooku does against Anakin in Ep II). In Ep III, the spread lightnings fired by Palaptine are first deflected by Mace, but then as he lowers his saber the lightnings are focused and pointed directly into Palpatine's face, so that may be the reason how he got his scarred appearance so fast.

[REDJOHNNYMIKE]

Redhawke's idea of the mask seems to make sense, although maybe it was a dark power of deception instead of a literal mask, the high level of force energy might have disrupted it,

[Bastila]

Well it's obivous really Palphetine does force lightlen then Mace gets his lightsaber and rebounds back to him in the face and well makes him look even more older and evil.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think RedHawke's explanantion is probably the best one.

 

 

 

Originally posted by THE VIGILANTE

I read somewhere that when you use Force Lightning, you tend to lose control of where you're aiming. Count Dooku could be a possible exception to this rule since he had experience.

 

In other words, Palpatine could direct his lightning to a certain person but, he couldn't get a direct hit on specific body parts (i.e - the face).

 

I don't think that's really the case. Dooku certainly doesn't seem to have the experience that Palpatine has or else he would be the master.

 

My guess is that Dooku is more precise in what he does. He's a saberist first and being one means upmost precision in his technique. It might be reflected in the way he uses force lightning.

On the other hand, Palpatine likes to overwhelm his opponent. His way of thinking would be that if you have a more powerful attack, if you hit your opponent more often, then you'll win. Thus why Palpatine uses a "bigger" Force Lightning wave.

 

Originally posted by THE VIGILANTE

Secondly, Palpy's force lightning attack on RotJ was cut short when Vader betrayed him so Luke didn't get affected as much as he could have been.

 

Luke did get affected much longer then Palpatine himself did. Yet when Palpatine uses Lightning on Vader, he starts dieing.

When he used Lightning on Luke, he tried a lower charged bolt in order to make him suffer before he died.

 

 

Back to a more important subject.

Is this the end of the Dark Side zombies?

We don't really know for sure if the Dark Side really makes you look like a zombie but neither Anakin, Dooku or even Maul showed signs of decay.

Perhaps you don't decay unless you're old, which means that unless you're playing as an old man in KOTOR III, you won't get the chance to audition for a George A Romero movie.

[Prime]

Originally posted by RedHawke

From what I understand GL told Ian McDermid(sp?) that basically through EP 1 and EP 2 to treat the Palapatine character as if he were wearing a mask one that hides who he really is. He also could be older than he looks and when he was holding off Mace he had to drop his disguise... later he claimed that fighting the Jedi deformed him, it also garnered him extra kudos from the senate.

This is correct.

[Lorden Darkblade]

I really like your theory RedHawke, there's just one problem.

Ask anyone that saw the movie, they will say the lightning did that.

GL should have made the face appear BEFORE he used lightning in Mace. Not WHILE he used it.

I prefer the idea of Dark Side screwing your face then the lightning. Cuz I like the way it happens in KotOR and some other games.

I just wanted GL to make that scene on a different way, IF he really meant that he dropped the disguise instead of the Lightning making him look like that.

[Aash Li]

Well Palpatines (Doesnt that name sound like Ovaltine sorta?) is seriously ancient. He was already old in episode 1, and he became a living fossil in episode 6. So even without the lightning accident he probly would have looked like a living corpse by episode 6.

 

Luke could very well have survived the lightning by the time of ROTJ because Palpatine's power could have been seriously low due to age.

[Lorden Darkblade]

I don't think age has anything to do with Force Powers.

Yoda was almost 900 years old in the prequel movies and still was the most powerful Jedi and leader of the Jedi Council.

[General Kenobi]

I think a better desc. of how he got that way was indeed the "force mask" one of those "abilities that some find unnatural" as Darth Sidious said to Annie at the holo opera or whatever.

 

I "assumed" that he would actually "drop" the quise of a nice lil' ole supreme chancellor and turn back into (like Hawke said up there) a much older than we think evil sith lord that had been totally corrupted.

 

The eye thing really bothered me with it's "changes." One time Anakin looks back and he's all yellow and red eyed, the next scene he's with Padme and normal eyed. I figured when you began turning you stayed that way. Ole' Georgie had him flicking the dark side eyes off and on like a light switch.

[RedHawke]

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

I really like your theory RedHawke, there's just one problem.

[Vader] There is NO problem! [/Vader]

 

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

Ask anyone that saw the movie, they will say the lightning did that.

I have seen it 5 times and the lightning most definately didn't do that, age did, Palapatine was old in EP III older than his disguise appeared. The whole sweet-looking Senator Palapatine thing was a Force Power called Disguise Self nothing more. And it will dissappear in heavy combat.

 

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

GL should have made the face appear BEFORE he used lightning in Mace. Not WHILE he used it.

If you are taking some concentration and force skill to maintain a disguise, it is only natural that when confronting a tough opponent like Windu, and channeling the darkside to make Lightning that you would have to fully concetrate on that and not a disguise, so it is only natural that it would drop during a tough fight.

 

Also remember, being that was the Chancellors Office, that they were likely being recorded and Palapatine wanted to use anything that occured there to his advantage... making it look like the Lightning scarred him while he defended himself from the Traitorous Jedi was more advantagous.

 

Palapatine/Dath Sidious' greatest strength was his foresight, he knew how things would turn out, so he made the motions to ensure they did.

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

I prefer the idea of Dark Side screwing your face then the lightning. Cuz I like the way it happens in KotOR and some other games.

Sorry, but I hate it... if this were true then Dooku, Maul and Vader would have shown the same signs, and they all clearly do not... Palapatines wrinkled face is from advanced age, nothing more.

 

Remember Yoda makes a statement to Luke that he was powerful in the force, but not strong enough to defy death... it was very possible that Palapatine was, and had held his bodys ageing in check for quite a while.

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

I just wanted GL to make that scene on a different way, IF he really meant that he dropped the disguise instead of the Lightning making him look like that.

But that is the very time a Force power like a disguise would drop, when he had to concentrate on holding off a quite strong opponent, like Master Windu.

 

It makes perfect sense, the saber duel was not too intrusive to maintain the disguise, but when Palapatine lost his saber he then had to resort to sheer power to hold off Windu, and make Anakin make his choice... this would have required a ton of additional concentration to do.

 

[Prime]

Originally posted by Uchiha Itachi

I really like your theory RedHawke, there's just one problem.

Ask anyone that saw the movie, they will say the lightning did that.

GL should have made the face appear BEFORE he used lightning in Mace. Not WHILE he used it.

That doesn't work. Anakin has to believe that it was, in part, Windu's fault for deforming Palpatine. Part of the whole "Jedi are the bad guys" thing.

[Lorden Darkblade]

I know guys. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, but like from almost everybody I know that saw that movie thinks the Lightning did it.

Even my older brother that always loved all the Star Wars thinks that the Lightning did it.

It should have been in another way, that's just what I think.

[General Kenobi]

Originally posted by Prime

That doesn't work. Anakin has to believe that it was, in part, Windu's fault for deforming Palpatine. Part of the whole "Jedi are the bad guys" thing.

 

Agreed. I stopped the movie on my pc and looked close. You can see Palpatine "say something sad" and then ease his gaze to see if it was having the effect he wanted on Anakin. He most definately had that planned no doubt

 

It wasn't like "he was so out of control with his force power." A Sith Lord of Sidous' power "mangled" by a mere Jedi with a lightsaber? I think not. Palpatine could have just simply stopped attacking and it would have ended.

 

From what I see it looks like a choice he made to "allow" anakin to see the Jedi were commiting treason. "Just look what this bad mad jedi is doing to me!" kind of thing.

 

He had no problem as soon as Anakin made his choice to "kick it up." He even told Mace "sorta" that he was faking in a way. Raising up a bit and smiling all evil like "Power!!!!" "Unlimited Power!!!" and then poured it on Mace.

 

Besides as far as I know no one actually knows if "force lightning" is "real" lightning as we see it, or if it is actually dark energy that would have different effects than real electrical current. After all Sidious would have been smoking and how about Luke? The emperor really poured it on him a few times before Vader did the Sith Lord toss.

 

This leads me to think of it more as "dark force energy" as opposed to "electrical current."

 

 

Remember Yoda makes a statement to Luke that he was powerful in the force, but not strong enough to defy death... it was very possible that Palapatine was, and had held his bodys ageing in check for quite a while.

 

I tend to agree with this. Wasn't Palpatine's "tale" of Darth Plagueis The Wise his own accention story? You could see the smug look on his face when he said, "Ironic (evil smile) he could save others from death....but not himself. The smug "but not himself" led me to believe that he was the one that had killed his master. He did say Plagueis taught his apprentice "EVERYTHING" he knew.

 

There is also a scene that is rumored to be cut from the final released version (don't know never seen that one) that shows sidious arriving and kneeling down next to a torched barely alive anakin and touching him. I thought this was a "healing" of sorts to keep him alive until he could be fitted into his encounter/environmental/life support suit. What led me to conclude this is, there aren't many/any Sith out there that are "healers" but Darth Plagueis actually could heal, restore life, animate life, and actually "create" life according to the tale Palpatine told.

 

I tend to think in the end it was like Hawke said a guise that he either "had" to drop although I think it was actually the "dark energy" he was producing "touching" him and causing him to loose his disguise.

 

I do see why the eye thing happens when you go dark side since "eyes are the windows to the soul" the eyes I guess get washed out from the evil within. I do have problems though on how anakin seemed to be able to be red eye then brown eye then red eye then brown eye. His were almost "surfacing as his rage did." Not sure if that's what was to be meant by it though or if it was just an oversite on lucas' part.

[RedHawke]

^^^^

That is also the way I took it as well General Kenobi.

This leads me to think of it more as "dark force energy" as opposed to "electrical current."

It is... FWIU, Force Lightning is created when you use your heated emotions to corrupt the Force and project that corrupted energy onto others.

[Darth InSidious]

I think RedHawke is right. After all, Kreia uses it,

 

to disguise her evilness and dark ladyness

 

And as a good Sith, I'm sure Sidious studied one of the most criminally insane Sith of all time

[General Kenobi]

Originally posted by Darth InSidious

I think RedHawke is right. After all, Kreia uses it,

 

to disguise her evilness and dark ladyness

 

And as a good Sith, I'm sure Sidious studied one of the most criminally insane Sith of all time

 

Your exactly right. The TSL game points to that as well from what we see.

 

I think the force energy hitting him was literally like a hand disturbing a picture reflection cast on the water's surface.

 

Perfect picture....but....only until disturbed. I tend to think the energy was like a hand on the water. Like Hawke said removing the veil of his disguise.

 

He definately wasn't hurt at all. When Anakin immediately fell backwards in horror of killing one of his own masters. "Poor weak" Palpatine hit is feet in one mark with no effort and told him as he glided towards him "Your fulfilling your destiny."

 

Poor Anakin had only been watching a VERY well thought out dance with Mace. I do believe Mace was the better in dueling with lightsabers. Palpatine looked very "straining" when he and Mace locked sabers. Then you see mace with this "You are SOOOO fuc#@#@ dead dude" look on his face.

 

I also think Palpatine was a bit caught off guard when Mace knocked his lightsaber right out of his hands. I think that scamper he did on his ass was definately real. He was scared ****less from what I can tell. He knew he was homefree though cause by that time Anakin had already entered the room to watch the "final" act in the events that would begin his fall from the Jedi and ascention into the Sith as Palpatine's slave apprentice.

 

He was never in real danger though cause' as we see in Darth Sidious battle with Jedi Master Yoda his command of force "teleknetic" type powers is amazing. He was throwing those galactic senator hover pods like they were frisbee's at poor ole' Yoda. I think he would have had a real time of it killing Mace alone if he even could but then again he didn't ever want to touch a Jedi did he? Palpatine ALWAYS had others do his work for him from what the movies show us.

 

In the end it was only a "small chess match" for Palpatine that allowed him access to his apprentice as he'd chosen to since Anakin blowed up the droid command ship in Episode I. Remember Palpatine striding up to give him a big ole' thanks and tell him "We'll be watching your career with great interest."

[THE CLONE]

Originally posted by General Kenobi

Your exactly right. The TSL game points to that as well from what we see.

 

I think the force energy hitting him was literally like a hand disturbing a picture reflection cast on the water's surface.

 

Perfect picture....but....only until disturbed. I tend to think the energy was like a hand on the water. Like Hawke said removing the veil of his disguise.

 

He definately wasn't hurt at all. When Anakin immediately fell backwards in horror of killing one of his own masters. "Poor weak" Palpatine hit is feet in one mark with no effort and told him as he glided towards him "Your fulfilling your destiny."

 

Poor Anakin had only been watching a VERY well thought out dance with Mace. I do believe Mace was the better in dueling with lightsabers. Palpatine looked very "straining" when he and Mace locked sabers. Then you see mace with this "You are SOOOO fuc#@#@ dead dude" look on his face.

 

I also think Palpatine was a bit caught off guard when Mace knocked his lightsaber right out of his hands. I think that scamper he did on his ass was definately real. He was scared ****less from what I can tell. He knew he was homefree though cause by that time Anakin had already entered the room to watch the "final" act in the events that would begin his fall from the Jedi and ascention into the Sith as Palpatine's slave apprentice.

 

He was never in real danger though cause' as we see in Darth Sidious battle with Jedi Master Yoda his command of force "teleknetic" type powers is amazing. He was throwing those galactic senator hover pods like they were frisbee's at poor ole' Yoda. I think he would have had a real time of it killing Mace alone if he even could but then again he didn't ever want to touch a Jedi did he? Palpatine ALWAYS had others do his work for him from what the movies show us.

 

In the end it was only a "small chess match" for Palpatine that allowed him access to his apprentice as he'd chosen to since Anakin blowed up the droid command ship in Episode II. Remember Palpatine striding up to give him a big ole' thanks and tell him "We'll be watching your career with great interest."

 

I also agree with RedHawke's theory.

 

P.S. - I think the reason why Palpatine had an easier time since he was on "higher ground". Therefore, he only had to 'lift and drop' the senate pods since they would naturally fall due to gravity.

 

P.P.S. - Anakin blew up the ship in EP1 not EP2.