REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 My questioning to you is this: How do you know that what you perceive as your reality is real? How do you seperate dreaming from being awake, and which do believe is your true reality? How do you prove one way or the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Metaphysics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKnight707 Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 You don't. You assume that you are awake, and that your a concious sentient being. Yet, I ask you, when you awake from a dream, you feel as if it was real, so how do you know that it wasn't? I'll answer my own question. You don't. You simply have to guess, that since your here, you are in fact awake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted March 5, 2006 Author Share Posted March 5, 2006 @jmac, In your own words;) @JK, Then what leads you to make that guess? Can't it be possible that your dreamstate is your reality and that your reading this post is actually a dream, this just seems real to you because this is what you see right now and you can't properly access your "real" memory while dreaming to give you a reason to believe it's false? What do you think the possibilities are of them both being true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Reality is defined by the chemical signals sent to your brain by specialized organs/organ systems in order to percieve the physical enviroment around oneself. I dare anyone to try and prove (with tangible or observable evidence) otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Well, I'm interested in the Matrix theory, but otherwise I don't really think it's too hard to differentiate from being awake and being asleep. I mean, when in doubt, just pinch hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 I don't worry about it and I get on with my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soogz Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 Yea, I mean I just kind of think about it and move on. Not a real big deal for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hallucination Posted March 5, 2006 Share Posted March 5, 2006 If this is a dream, it must be a nightmare. I just assume that it's real, and if it isn't I'll find out when I wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I dreamed that the nightmare of existentialist philosophy was over. I like Descartes: I think, therefore I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk102 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Reality is defined by the chemical signals sent to your brain by specialized organs/organ systems in order to percieve the physical enviroment around oneself. I dare anyone to try and prove (with tangible or observable evidence) otherwise. What evidence do you have of these "chemical signals"? What evidence do you have that anything exists outside our mental phenomenon? Perhaps there is no "obective" reality at all. You are theorizing that matter really exists. As George Berkeley said "esse est percipi" -- to be is to be perceived. Mind-body dualism? How do we even know the body? Isn't but a figment in our mind? Why should assume that there exists anything outside the mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKnight707 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 @jmac, In your own words;) @JK, Then what leads you to make that guess? Can't it be possible that your dreamstate is your reality and that your reading this post is actually a dream, this just seems real to you because this is what you see right now and you can't properly access your "real" memory while dreaming to give you a reason to believe it's false? What do you think the possibilities are of them both being true? Your reading too much into it. If you think of it like that, you'll just end up in circles. Yes it can be possible that I'm stuck in a dream, but I believe that when you're in a dream, you have a weakened state of mind. So I don't think that I am stuck in a dream, for the sheer fact that I've been thinking rightly. Yet, you have to think, that maybe I've been stuck in a dream my whole life, so I don't know what it feels like to be in a dream. See, I'm stuck in a perpetual loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedHawke Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Everything is a Fig Newton of our imaginations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 @jmac, So what? It's also possible that those chemicals are imbalanced or their paths are crossed, meaning that the only reason you perceive this discussion is that you were running faster than you should've and hit your head on a passing tree as it was innocently making it's way to the marketplace. @Sabertooth, Apparently you've never been caught in the jaw by a jab from a 20 foot gorilla;) Pain is just a bunch of signals that your brain processes. Your mind gets phantom limb syndrome even though you consciously know your leg isn't there, so pain can be misinterpreted or even erroneosly read. So what's to say that your brain couldn't be malfunctioning right now making you believe this dream is real? @DI, You don't embrace it and enjoy the inherent daftness of it's complexity? @Hal, What if it isn't a nightmare, even as screwed up as earth is, what if it's your minds bright and happy attempt to suppress the nightmare that you actually exist in and can sometimes almost get back to until you wake up in a cold sweat? And what if your mind can't translate the memories of one into the other, and what you're experiencing now is a twisted deja vu experienced within what you call your nightmare? @Jae, Do you think when you dream? and uhh exiwhat? @Tk102, Now your thinking:thmbup1: What if the problem isn't a lack of evidence though so much as not being able to define the evidence in this or any other state, possibly due in part to all assumptions about scientific analysis being either completley wrong, partialy wrong, or highly unlikely, like 6X9=42? @JK707, Define thinking rightly? What makes you think that thought is applicable outside of your own imagination? Maybe thought doesn't exist in real life and is only the figment of imagination? What if you are stuck in a perpetual loop, created from your own imagination, resulting from a conversation similar to this that you once had with a rather grumpy manhole cover? edit: @RH, Care to extrapolate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 edit: @RH, Care to extrapolate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_Newton It says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingerhs Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 meh, who cares?? i am who i am, and i live in the world i live in. sure as heck works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabretooth Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 @Sabertooth, Apparently you've never been caught in the jaw by a jab from a 20 foot gorilla;) Pain is just a bunch of signals that your brain processes. Your mind gets phantom limb syndrome even though you consciously know your leg isn't there, so pain can be misinterpreted or even erroneosly read. So what's to say that your brain couldn't be malfunctioning right now making you believe this dream is real? 1. It's Sabretooth, not Sabertooth 2. It was a lame joke. If this is a dream, then this probably a long dream. The way I see it, dreams are like movies. You do make the decisions and such, but you can't just wait around and think on what's anything, or go enjoy stuff. It's like a movie your brain wants to show you, to summarize what you saw and what you heard during the dream. If this, my life, is a dream, then reality would probably be very, very different. Maybe I've dreamt up so much stuff. Whose dream is it anyways? If I were in a dream, then you're just part of my dream. You're mine. Or maybe I'm in your dream? So whose dream is it? Go answer that, and lemme know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 @Sabretooth, sorry, typo;) Well, personally, to me they are more like games than movies, I like more interaction, although I do fastforward and rewind if I get bored or want to try something again. So you only see them as seeing and hearing? Well of course, in the case in discussion, it would be quite different, if you've ever been really sick and ate a whole pizza just before going to sleep you'd find that obvious (hence my sig;)) Or it's two realities brought about by the possibility or improbability of them dreaming each other into definition;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 What evidence do you have of these "chemical signals"? What evidence do you have that anything exists outside our mental phenomenon? Perhaps there is no "obective" reality at all. You are theorizing that matter really exists. As George Berkeley said "esse est percipi" -- to be is to be perceived. Mind-body dualism? How do we even know the body? Isn't but a figment in our mind? Why should assume that there exists anything outside the mind? These chemicals can be measured. Your theory and a quote in Latin isn't tangible or observable evidence of perception/reality being anything other than the chemical/electrical signals within our brains. And questioning the existance of matter doesn't change the overwhelming observable and tangible evidence of it's existance. @RJM- Ahhhh, you've stumbled into the realm of quantum physics... If one percieves something, is that not their reality? For instance, if I were only percieving this thread because of a blow to the head, would it matter to my reality that you don't recognize this thread? The answer is no, it wouldn't as I would be completely oblivious to anyone else's reality that clashes with my own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDJOHNNYMIKE Posted March 6, 2006 Author Share Posted March 6, 2006 @jmac, Measured by what? And tangible evidence of matter and chemicals is proven by what? Actually the discussion and those involved would be products of your own malfunction, meaning I would have no reality to clash with yours, and would be produced from elements of your own confused mind, and if I was some part of that, than all this highly logical or illogical discussion I promote is actually based on your own beliefs or doubts about your supposed reality. So for your own sanity, prove my existence??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Measured in --liters, where the "--" is the prefix I can't think of right now... As for your reality not existing in my confused mind, I was talking from the point of view of some third party who recognized both realities. However from the point of view of hypothetical me, your reality would not exist and wouldn't be a factor in this equation. ***Edit*** And please stop questioning the existance of matter. It exists, ask anyone who's been hit by something or someone else, and there is no evidence to prove it doesn't exist, whereas I can percieve matter and thus infer know of it's existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 lolz... AHTO.... one minute it's "fave Harry Potter Book" the next minute its quantum mechanics... funneh. my take: Im really not interested in what makes it all happen. It should never take away from the fact that we must look after ourselves, and help and serve others. Seriously, as long as there is illness, starvation, homelessness, crime what does it matter who made what and what made who. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChAiNz.2da Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 Trust me.. if I were in a dream world.. I wouldn't have so many bills That, or my imagination really sux.. hehehe *sigh*, signs yet another check to hand over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kensai Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 What I don't understand is the necessity for this structure we have now, sophisticated culture (or atleast where I'm sitting)... Anyways, reality is a perspective, perception is not a reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth InSidious Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The only thing that is certain is that the universe is infinite... ...OR IS IT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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