Abstinence

[TK-8252]

  milojmiles said:

Lawl. Yeah, sex is natural. So are hairy legs, armpits, and genitals, but that doesn't turn me on. My dog took a **** in the front yard today. That's natural. Why do we use indoor plumbing? Why not do what's natural? Why do we wear clothes? Why do we eat food that has been prepared unnaturally? Why not eat raw meat? That's natural.

 

I have no hormonally-driven urge to walk around naked and eat raw meat.

[Samnmax221]

  milojmiles said:

I'm not going to wait for marriage to have sex, but that doesn't mean I'll do it with just anybody.

Thats where preferences, reason, and self ownership come into play. Most people will not **** someone that they deeply hate, or are not a wee bit attracted to. Just because you choose not to abstain doesn't meen you'll run around ****ing anything that will have you (I know I don't). If you do make the choice not to abstain, you'd better be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.

[Q]

  Samnmax221 said:

If you do make the choice not to abstain, you'd better be prepared to accept responsibility for your actions.

 

QFE

 

There can be a lot of negative fallout from indiscriminately ****ing around, so think before you act.

[milo]

  TK-8252 said:

I have no hormonally-driven urge to walk around naked and eat raw meat.

Fine then. I'll use a different example.

 

Think of someone who really irritates you. Every day, they're grating on your nerves. Then one day, they do something that crosses the line, and you get extremely pissed. You suddenly have a very strong urge to beat the living hell out of them. It's natural to feel this way. You're Does that mean you should go ahead and beat them to a pulp?

[TK-8252]

  milojmiles said:

Fine then. I'll use a different example.

 

Think of someone who really irritates you. Every day, they're grating on your nerves. Then one day, they do something that crosses the line, and you get extremely pissed. You suddenly have a very strong urge to beat the living hell out of them. It's natural to feel this way. You're Does that mean you should go ahead and beat them to a pulp?

 

If I could get a fair fight with him, and think I would win, damn right I would. Although no one pisses me off to that point. I'm not much of a hater. But having casual sex isn't exactly the same as beating the **** out of someone without their consent.

[Nancy Allen``]

I understand sex to be healthy, if not morally then with a partner you know is clean medically. Isn't it meant to do things such as reduce stress levels? Besides which if sex with someone else is unappealing then there's other ways to, y'know, release the pressure. It might not be something a Jedi would do exactly, but sometimes you have to ask what is.

[Jae Onasi]

  The Doctor said:

Just because you're a virgin doesn't mean you don't have an STD. Some STDs are passed down through genetics.

 

Jae's in retentive fix-any-medical-misunderstandings mode....

I'm unaware of any STDs that are passed through genetics and if there is one, I'll be learning something new today, too.

Now, you can get an STD at birth due to body fluid transfer or contact--e.g. HIV or active herpes, which is why women with HIV or who have an active outbreak of herpes usually have c-sections--less risk of the baby contracting the diseases.

 

However, birth-related STD transfer and genetics are 2 different things.

[Emperor Devon]

Hm. I thought someone who'd had kids might have an opinion on this.

[Q]

Yeah. I figured I'd leave the commentary on that error to someone more qualified.

[Ray Jones]

  Emperor Devon said:

So, are you all for or against it?

So, why is this important? If someone decides not to have premarriage sex, why shouldn't he/she do so? I'm completely fine with it. Same with the opposite too, of course.

 

I'm not against abstinence, why should I. Just because I have/had sex before I get married (if ever), doesn't mean I walk around and do it every second of my life without ever doing or thinking something else. It doesn't mean I'm not choosy about the girls I have sex with or that there aren't times without any sexual contacts at all. And where is it written, that if I kiss someone, or go more or less intimate, I have to dig the lurve vulcano too? That, plus abstinence doesn't mean virginity. One can live in abstinence although he/she had sex before and will have sex again.

 

  Quote

... I think sex before marriage is disgusting behavior.

No, it simply is not. Because I heard sex came loooong before marriage or even humans started captivating this planet with their very existence.

 

  Quote

It increases chances of STDs when people have it with one than one partner

Yes, but so does becoming a doctor, using a public toilet, getting blood transfusions. What is a STD anyway? This is a stupidly hyped term, a catchphrase, propaganda, plain and simple. "STD" does not mean "worse than any other desease", and most deseases are "sexually transferable" anyway, even the common flu. And AIDS or HIV, for instance, is something you can easily get with someone elses blood - no sex needed.

 

  Quote

.. causes teen pregnancy

I doubt that I'll cause teen pregnancy, because I rarely have sex with teenagers. Also, does this teen pregnancy argument imply that abstinence is something only for teens?

 

  Quote

and can take away a very happy memory on wedding day.

I guess the "very happy memory" you're talking about is defloration? Does this imply, that if I ever get married, I'll have no happy wedding day memory? Or that I don't have good memories regarding my own defloration? Oh no.

 

I'm very "happy" that I had my first sex with that girl back then, and I would not want to change this. But let me assure you one thing..

 

Gawd, I am sooo thousand times more happy with the thought and fact that I actually did not marry her.

[Ray Jones]

  milojmiles said:

Lawl. Yeah, sex is natural. So are hairy legs, armpits, and genitals, but that doesn't turn me on.

These are all things which are down to personal taste. And if you're going to ****, then don't lie to me and tell me the vagina where you just stuck your penis in doesn't turn you on. HA!

 

  Quote

My dog took a **** in the front yard today. That's natural. Why do we use indoor plumbing?

Sanitary reasons. Lessons we might have learned in the Dark Ages?

 

  Quote

Why not do what's natural? Why do we wear clothes?

To adapt weather/climate? Protect our bodies? Our fur is gone for a long long time now, y'know? And at this point humans began to wear clothes. Cool, huh?

 

  Quote

Why do we eat food that has been prepared unnaturally? Why not eat raw meat? That's natural.

We eat "prepared" food (cooked/fried/grilled meat, etc) since long before our fur went *poof*. It's easier to digest, healthier, and thus the human species could resort to a much more spread range of food, e.g. vegetables which yould be otherwise uneatable.

[Jae Onasi]

  Emperor Devon said:

Hm. I thought someone who'd had kids might have an opinion on this.

 

 

I do. But at later than 1am and another 10 pages to go on that **** report (made it to page 16 last night, not including endnotes), I'm deferring my opinion til I have more time to a. sleep and be coherent and b. have time to type it in. I do feel the need to do medical rumor control right away, however.

 

  Ray Jones said:

Yes, but so does becoming a doctor, using a public toilet, getting blood transfusions.

 

Getting STDs from public toilets is a misconception.

The risk of HIV and hepatitis from receiving blood transfusions is much lower now since there's now routine testing of the blood supply. Being a doctor (or any other health professional) doesn't make one more at risk for STDs--we're not having sex with our patients, after all, and we all follow the mantra 'If its wet and sticky and doesn't belong to you, don't touch it.' Obviously if one works in a higher risk setting like ER, OB, and OR, one needs to take more protections, but the risk of patient-to-professional transfer of STDs is extremely low.

STDs are different from colds and flus because they're transmitted primarily by sexual contact rather than other routes. Yeah, you can theoretically get the flu from sex, but you're going to be exposed to the virus in droplets in the air long before you get down and dirty.

 

Edit: and it's dumb for this to annoy me so much, but it does. 'Dark Ages' is no longer used as a term, at least in the history/academic circles. 'Medieval period' and 'Middle Ages' are the correct terms for referring to that time period that runs from roughly the fall of Rome to the Renaissance.

[Ray Jones]

  Jae Onasi said:

Getting STDs from public toilets is a misconception.

No, it is not. In fact it is a possible way to get those "STDs".

 

  Quote

The risk of HIV and hepatitis from receiving blood transfusions is much lower now since there's now routine testing of the blood supply. Being a doctor (or any other health professional) doesn't make one more at risk for STDs--we're not having sex with our patients, after all, and we all follow the mantra 'If its wet and sticky and doesn't belong to you, don't touch it.' Obviously if one works in a higher risk setting like ER, OB, and OR, one needs to take more protections, but the risk of patient-to-professional transfer of STDs is extremely low.

And likewise, if you're going to take the higher risk of getting STDs by having sex, one needs to take more protections too. And I wouldn't see the risk as extremely low, because after all, the "sexual transfer" is all about "contact with bodily fluids", nothing more. If you're armdeep into someone elses fluids, you're taking the same risk.

 

  Quote

STDs are different from colds and flus because they're transmitted primarily by sexual contact rather than other routes. Yeah, you can theoretically get the flu from sex, but you're going to be exposed to the virus in droplets in the air long before you get down and dirty.

And practically you will be exposed to the virus at a much higher level and more viruses means more action for the immune system. Actually resulting in a higher chance for the flu to catch you. That, plus see above.

 

  Quote

'Dark Ages' is no longer used as a term, at least in the history/academic circles. 'Medieval period' and 'Middle Ages' are the correct terms for referring to that time period that runs from roughly the fall of Rome to the Renaissance.

Mediaeval times, yap. I was going for that one too, but my online dictionary suggested D.A. too, so I thought "aahh, what the.. why bother?" .. Now I know why.. ;~~~~

[The Doctor]

  Jae Onasi said:

Jae's in retentive fix-any-medical-misunderstandings mode....

I'm unaware of any STDs that are passed through genetics and if there is one, I'll be learning something new today, too.

Now, you can get an STD at birth due to body fluid transfer or contact--e.g. HIV or active herpes, which is why women with HIV or who have an active outbreak of herpes usually have c-sections--less risk of the baby contracting the diseases.

 

However, birth-related STD transfer and genetics are 2 different things.

See, that's my ignorance showing. Also a poor choice of words on my part - again. My turn to learn something knew.

[Emperor Devon]

  Ray Jones said:

So, why is this important?

 

I'm wondering people's opinions.

 

  Ray Jones said:

No, it simply is not. Because I heard sex came loooong before marriage

 

Those were disgusting enough days by modern standards, thank you.

 

  Ray Jones said:

Yes,

 

Glad you agree. The fact that not choosing abstinence can increase the chances of getting a sexually transmitted disease is difficult to deny.

 

  Ray Jones said:

I doubt that I'll cause teen pregnancy, because I rarely have sex with teenagers.

 

Good, but they do.

 

  Ray Jones said:

Also, does this teen pregnancy argument imply that abstinence is something only for teens?

 

No, it's simply another positive effect of abstaining.

 

  Ray Jones said:

I guess the "very happy memory" you're talking about is defloration?

 

I have heard sex is enjoyable. And as most people will lose their virginity whether they choose abstinence or not, that lends no credit to your arguments.

 

  Ray Jones said:

Does this imply, that if I ever get married, I'll have no happy wedding day memory?

 

I have not and will not say that. Call it icing on the cake, if you will.

 

  Ray Jones said:

Gawd, I am sooo thousand times more happy with the thought and fact that I actually did not marry her.

 

I have not advocated marrying people for sex.

[ET Warrior]

Most people who choose abstinence may not be aware, but most people don't particularly enjoy their first time having sex. (Aside from the "OMG I'm actually having sex part") Especially girls.

From all I've heard from girls it hurts the first time and is generally uncomfortable. As a guy it's just awkward and clumsy.

 

I have nothing against people choosing abstinence, but I DO have something against people who choose it presenting themselves as somehow morally superior to those who do not.

[Samnmax221]

  ET Warrior said:

From all I've heard from girls it hurts the first time and is generally uncomfortable.

That would be due to stretching of the Hymen, this occurs in all first timers unless they've allready broken theirs by playing sports, or in some sort of injury.

[Nancy Allen``]

It's also due to it not being, y'know, stretched or anything. Stick something large up your ion exhaust and see how comfortable it is. Unless you're experianced it can be quite unpleasent. Also add the the fact people who have loved before would know what to do better than a virgin.

[Samnmax221]

I never said it was comfortable, I just explained medically why it hurts.

[Nancy Allen``]

You get the drift. Like many things it takes two or three goes for you to get the hang of it.

[Jae Onasi]

  ET Warrior said:

From all I've heard from girls it hurts the first time and is generally uncomfortable.

 

That might be true in many cases, but certainly not all. Appropriate preparation can minimize discomfort.

[Rogue Nine]

I would just like to say that "ion exhaust" is the greatest euphemism for the female orifice I have ever heard.

[Nancy Allen``]

I got it from Mira the grot (play Sith Lords) and I haven't heard it said to the male PC but somehow I think she had a diffirent orfice in mind.

[Ray Jones]

  Emperor Devon said:

I'm wondering people's opinions.

And yet you tell them they behave disgusting if they have sex before they get married? Assuming that everyone on this planet wants that? Hm.

 

 

  Quote

Those were disgusting enough days by modern standards' date=' thank you.[/quote']"By modern standards"? I don't get it. Where does this connect to sex and marriage? You do realise that this sex-thing is essential for our existence?

 

I'd like to point out that having sex before marriage is not a disgusting behaviour, by any means. You might not feel confortable with it, fine. But having sex before marriage does not mean having sex with 5 complete strangers a day, going to sex parties or having spontaneous sex at all. It doesn't even mean that you are going to have sex before you hit your 25th birtday. Or that there is no love between you and the other. Or how often it happens. It just means one thing: having sexual experience before getting married. Do you realise that? This statement is qualitative not quantitative.

 

 

  Quote

Glad you agree. The fact that not choosing abstinence can increase the chances of getting a sexually transmitted disease is difficult to deny.

Just like when you choose the wrong spouse.

 

 

  Quote

Good, but they do.

Better than doing drugs and carrying weapons. Afraid of pregnancy? Talk to them. Make sure they don't think a tampon or coitus interruptus are valid contraceptives. At one point you'll have to do it anyway. And do something about the society which is telling them "sex sells". But please. Don't create a society which says "sex stinks".

 

 

  Quote

No, it's simply another positive effect of abstaining.

Sure. Genital mutilation of the young girls and castration of the boys would have the same positive effect, don't you think?

 

 

  Quote

I have heard sex is enjoyable. And as most people will lose their virginity whether they choose abstinence or not, that lends no credit to your arguments.

Err? The "very happy memory"-argumentation was yours, not mine. I was simply asking if you were addressing defloration with that.

 

Also, don't you think that while you are losing virginity, you're not very abstinent, eh?

[Windu Chi]

  TK-8252 said:

I'm not cheering those things on, but they are surely more natural than abstinence. Prostitution is the oldest industry. Porn and casual sex, etc. is exactly what god natural selection ordered.

I say people should has as much sex as they want with any number of people, until they are drained.

In my opinion marriage is just an option.

Yes, but make sure that they have it safely of course.

It is a pleasure, like eating ice cream.

So go ahead!

Also I am tired of the so called, "moral" people who get angry at people who have as much sex as humanly possible.

I believe their reason is jealousy.