Die, you arrogant bastard!!

[igyman]

No, this thread doesn't have anything to do with killing, it was just a way to make you look.

 

The topic is more related to me and college. You see, on the 30th of September I had a what they called ''preliminary English exam''.

The thing with it is that if you are satisfied with the mark you got, you've passed the subject and you just have to come in January, after the regular exams (which you don't go to if you're satisfied), to get the mark signed in your, well, I don't know the proper English term for it, but we call it a student's index.

 

Now, since I don't know if the college system in my country is anything like the one in your countries, I'll give you a brief info on the marking process. There are six marks, ranging from the number five to ten, five being the lowest mark and if you get this one, it means you didn't pass the exam and ten, of course, being the highest mark.

Another brief info on how the college works - we have the professors, who give the lectures and we have assistants who do the exercises with us, show us how to use the theoretical knowledge that the profs taught in practice.

 

Now that that's cleared up, here's the deal: I got the results of that exam today, after more than two weeks of waiting and I got a nine. The problem is that I'm almost completely certain that I did the exam for a ten (since I always got excellent marks in elementary and high school, got commendations for my excellent knowledge from both those schools and represented my high school in a city-wide english language competition where I almost qualified for the Republic competition, I think that my self-confidence is justified).

Another problem is that, believe it or not, we have no idea who our English professor is. She hasn't showed up once during these four weeks since college started, so all we know is that she's a woman.

Anyway, since I wasn't satisfied with the nine I politely asked the assistant if I could see my work and she said that I can't. When she heard that I got a nine and wasn't satisfied with it, she arrogantly implied that the nine was probably raised from an eight after adding a few points to it (which she claims to have done to several eights), which is an insult to my knowledge (since she doesn't know me, I tried to ignore that remark and denied its possibility to her, though in my mind I thought of shouting, insulting and punching her for that insult, thus the thread title). The assistant told me that all I can do, if I'm not satisfied is do the regular exam in January.

 

Now, the main thing is that I can accept the possibility that I made enough mistakes to get a nine instead of a ten, but to accept the mark itself I need to see the paper with my own eyes. My question is: Am I overreacting and the assistant is right in not allowing me, or anyone else to see their work, or am I right and the assistant is an arrogant bastard who doesn't want to consider the possibility that she made a mistake while checking and marking the exams?

[JediMaster12]

As a person in college and a member of the grade grievance committee, I know that there are students who have problems with the grade they received. In your case, it does seem that the TA is a bit arrogant and unreasonable. You received a score and thought you did a ten but got a nine. I can see that you wanted to see the reasons why. What the assistant said was not only rude but insulting to your integrity. What was the professor thinking when she hired that person? A better question is who does that professor think she is by not showing up to class? Doesn't she know that you are paying for her to teach you? To be honest that is poor conduct. You are paying for your education and you should have a right to verifiy the reasoning behind your score. How else can you do better next time know that you know the expectations?

To take further action, I suggest that you read carefully the proceedures regarding grade grievance and the like and follow them. Also keep a copy of everything that you did for the class. Evidence is good and you will need it. I also suggest you make a complaint into the conduct of the assistant and mention that the professor has not attended classes. If necessary have other students help verify what you say.

I hope that helps a bit since I work in the university system here in California. Still I am peeved at the nerve of that assistant. I better stop before I start shouting and getting grammatically incoherent. Good Luck igyman.

[igyman]

Thanks, JM12. Seeing what I did and the mistakes I made (if I really made that many of them) is basically all I want. If it's really my mistake and not the assistant's I'll accept the grade and that'll be that, but if she made a mistake, I'd want it corrected. I'll talk to a few others that weren't completely satisfied and see what I can do about at least seeing my work. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that I'll be allowed to see it, but I'll try everything according to proper procedure.

[Jae Onasi]

I've been a TA and had students argue grades, but I always took the time to talk to them about it and explain why I gave the grade I did. I did have a gal argue about a B (which might be like a 9 for you) because she always got A's in highschool (like a 10), but her work really was B level, not A, and I explained why. She took it to the prof, who told her that he could regrade it if she liked, but he thought I was being overly generous and she really deserved a lower grade. She decided not to pursue it further.

I'd go to whoever is in charge of the profs to complain about the prof not showing up for 4 weeks, too. Unless she's ill or on maternity leave, there's no excuse for her not to be there.

So, the upshot of all this is

a. you may have indeed done 10 work and she graded it wrong.

b. you may also have done 9 work and she graded it right, because university requires more rigorous standards than high school, and what you think is 10 work is actually considered 9 or 8 work in that department.

c. a 9 is not the end of the world unless you have some kind of scholarship riding on your final grade and it has to be a 10.

d. since the TA won't talk to you about it, go to the prof. If you can't get ahold of the prof, go to the prof who's in charge of the department to talk about it.

e. be polite and don't be too argumentative--if you go in with a bad attitude and get in peoples' faces, you will get nowhere fast. If you go in with the attitude, "hey, I got a 9, I'd really like to see what mistakes I made in order to improve so I can earn a 10, and the TA won't show me my paper, and I don't understand why" you'll get a lot farther than if you go in and say "I've always gotten 10's in high school, I don't know why I got a 9 here, the TA's a witch and won't talk to me, I think I deserved a 10 and I demand you change it."

Hope that helps.

[igyman]

It does and regardless of the thread I am a lot calmer about the whole thing now than I was earlier today. Like I said, I'll see who I can complain to according to proper procedure and also check with the others if there's anyone else who might want to see what they did, since chances are better if there are more of us than just me.

 

On an educative note: In my country the grades in college are from five to ten, but in elementary and high school they're from one to five (one, of course, being the lowest).

[JediMaster12]

Yes listen to people who have been through the system or know the system. Don't be afraid to use the resources in school. They are there for you to help you. True certain areas you have to fight with but for the most part they are there to help you. The reason I mentioned fight is that I have had a few entanglements with administration mostly concerning Financial Aid. Yes I am poor and was lucky I got the Cal-Grant to pay for most of fees since the governator raised tution when he took office. Still just be polite to them and remember that the receptionists and the people you deal with first tend to be students doing a work-study job. They know the pain too. Keep your chin up.

[milo]

Ain't life a bitch sometimes?

 

I feel your pain. I've had that happen once or twice.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I probably would have given you a ten. Your english really is excellent--better than a lot of native speakers.

[Phantom Joker]

Been on both sides of the coin. I will say though, as a TA, I have never considered not showing the exam to the student if they asked. Even a foolish mistake can be a learning experience (coming from one who's made a few during finals week--the line between the appropriate amount of study and the appropriate amount of sleep can be a fine one...). As far as I'm concerned the assistant was utterly and completely out of line in not letting you see your exam.

 

However, having said that, it's up to you as to whether you wish to push the issue. Based on what you've mentioned here, a nine ain't bad (notice the very improper use of English for effect...). It may just be for the best to take it and move on. In five years no one is going to ask, nor care what your score was in english.

 

Frankly, as miloj mentions above, your written english skills are better than many native speakers. If it's not going to affect your immediate future, I'd say move on secure in the knowledge that you know your stuff.

[Samnmax221]

Torch their car!

[CSI]

Yeah, once I took a test, in high-school, I got straight As (Of couse, some Bs and Cs are inevitable) but in college, when the professor hands the paper back, I always check the mistake carefully, and pinpoint which mistake professor made, and tell him where it is. After professor took a look at it, he changes the grade...Like that. The most important thing is on Student him/herself, not the TA or Prof.

 

But by the way, you are right, that TA is a Sith. Sith is hard to deal with.

[Emperor Devon]

From what you described, it would have taken less effort on her part to get you the exam than it would have to be rude to you. Behavior like that is not acceptable. If she acts like that to you, I'd bet she'll do the same to other people. If you value your grade and want to spare others the same inconvenience, let the professor know. You'll be doing her a favor anyway by letting her know what a bad TA she has. I certainly wouldn't want to have someone like that as my assistant.

 

Everyone else has said all there is to say about this matter, so I will spare you a repetition.

[HerbieZ]

As im feeling somewhat depressed as of late, i relate to your frustration. I concluded yesterday that i have wasted my school and college life by actually doing work and being good. You see, i was stood in the job centre a few days ago, with the inbreds and genereal scum who were absolute jerks at school and thought to myself, i am in no different position than these people who did'nt concentrate at school. The fact that i tried so hard at school to get to where the people are, pissed me off to no end.

[Mace MacLeod]

Hmm. This does sound a bit odd, but then I have no idea how schools are organized in Serbia. At the very least you should know who your teacher is--talk to the department head or your school's administration to find out. Who is assigning this TA marking duties? That's the person you need to talk to.

 

And whatever you do, don't make this into a personal beef with the TA. I was a TA in uni too, and you would not believe the excuses, heartache and attitude I had to soak up. Just ask nicely to see your test so you can see what you did wrong, if she won't do that, ask to see the professor for the course. If you can't get an answer about who that is, talk to the department head or administration. If they can't even tell you...well, have you considered studying abroad?

[igyman]

I did some talking to some of my fellow students today and I learned that there are quite a few of them who want to see their exam, but were denied the right, just like me. I'm going to talk to them a bit more and see if we're going to ask the assistant politely once more, or are we going to complain to a higher ranked staff member.

 

@Mace: I have considered it, but I lack the funds.

[JediMaster12]

That is a good way to go. With the higher-ups, sometimes it helps to talk to the department chair first because they usually have some power over the faculty members. If that doesn't work, go higher up. Like I mentioned before, follow your grade grievance proceedures. Keep a record of everything, the work you did and encourage the other students who feel the same to do the same. Just remember to be polite when asking. Bad attitude will get you nowhere and could put you in bad light should you take it to the higher-ups.

The suggestion that Mace suggested for study abroad can be possible should you choose to do that. There are scholarships offered at both ends from your university and the university that you attend abroad. I know this because I get offers all the time for study abroad. There are even the obscure scholarships that people have never heard of. It's a bit of research on your part but hey if it's something you want to do then consider it. My cousin studied abroad and it was true that she had to save money for the trip and such but she did get scholarships to help pay for it.

[Mace MacLeod]

Yeah, this whole not-letting-students-see-their-exams bit is just...strange. These are just midterms, right? That's odd. I dunno, maybe it's a Serbian thing...but yeah, that rings some alarm bells here.

 

And I was just being my usual smart-ass self about studying abroad. Just not knowing how you're being evaluated or being given the opportunity to find out what your mistakes were...that's just not a good way to learn things, y'know?

 

Also, feel for the poor TAs of the world. They do a sh!tload of work for generally zero recognition, and they have to be the front line of every single student complaint and whine-fest. My personal favourite was the student who gave me a ten-minute crying temper tantrum because she disputed one wrong answer in a fifty-question multiple-choice midterm and I refused to change it. For a 47/50 instead of a 46/50, she threatened to sue me, have me thrown out of the university, then she broke down and used up two entire boxes of kleenex while she ranted about her abusive mother. How I resisted the temptation to hold a pillow over her face, I'll never know...

[Jae Onasi]

(snipped)

she threatened to sue me, have me thrown out of the university, then she broke down and used up two entire boxes of kleenex while she ranted about her abusive mother. How I resisted the temptation to hold a pillow over her face, I'll never know...

 

I resisted laughing for about .2 seconds, and then it poured out, because it's pretty much how any TA feels at some point. The answer to the pillow question--she just wasn't worth jail time.

[Emperor Devon]

I have to agree. You should've at least some smart-ass remark, though.

 

I feel some sympathy for TAs too, as I was back in middle school. Not much appreciation from anyone other than the teacher, but that I could look at the grades of some people I didn't like compensated for it.

[Phantom Joker]

My personal favourite was the student who gave me a ten-minute crying temper tantrum because she disputed one wrong answer in a fifty-question multiple-choice midterm and I refused to change it.

 

That's a good one. I didn't see whining like that until I got into government service.

[igyman]

Yeah, this whole not-letting-students-see-their-exams bit is just...strange. These are just midterms, right? That's odd. I dunno, maybe it's a Serbian thing...but yeah, that rings some alarm bells here.

Well, in a way you could say it's a Serbian teacher thing. Sometimes they like to think of themselves as the second smartest people in the world (the smartest person being god), but normally a student has the right to see his/her exam.

 

For a 47/50 instead of a 46/50, she threatened to sue me, have me thrown out of the university, then she broke down and used up two entire boxes of kleenex while she ranted about her abusive mother. How I resisted the temptation to hold a pillow over her face, I'll never know...

Well, that's just idiotic. I'm sure that one point wouldn't have changed her grade, right? I have no idea how you resisted the temptation, who knows what I would have done in your place.

[JediMaster12]

Yeah I know TAs tend to get the short end of the stick especially if they TA for the general ed and 100 level courses which usually have anywhere from 100-250 students all crowded in a big lecture hall. TAs have their bad days too.

[RC-1162]

well, iggy, seeing that you're an HK fan, it's not hard to imagine something to do, is it?

 

anyway, as a fellow student, i do agree that you have the right to see your paper. basically what was already said just now, but i had to say it

[Mace MacLeod]

Well, in a way you could say it's a Serbian teacher thing. Sometimes they like to think of themselves as the second smartest people in the world (the smartest person being god),

Hee hee...oh, that's not a Serbian teacher thing. Massive egos are by no means limited to the Balkans. Oh...I could tell you stories about the prof whose lab I worked in...

[Q]

Yeah, I think we've all come in contact with our fair share of arrogant instructors with the "I'm not a god, but I play one at school" attitude I used to really pi$$ them off by not doing any of their waste-of-time busywork all term long and then still pull an "A" or "B" average by acing the tests and finals. I never studied and never had to, and they HATED me for it.

 

Igy, your English is EXCELLENT. If you hadn't previously stated that you're from Serbia, I would have never guessed that English wasn't your primary language, and I doubt anyone else would have either. If I were you, I wouldn't be satisfied with a 9 either. If you can't make any headway now, I'd suggest taking the exam in January. That way it won't continue to bug you in the future. Good luck, man!

[JediMaster12]

Sounds you are a bit arrogant yourself Qliveur but I tend to do some things like that too. I actually made a comment on my dept. chair's hair do only because he was bashing another colleague. Lucky for me he is a nice guy.