Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

[Corinthian]

This isn't protection, it's the fact that the Exile is essentially parasitic, leeching the Force off of other Force-sensitives like Kreia through Force Bonds. How does him sucking their power translate to them being protected from Nihilus Soul Diner?

[Jediphile]

Because having force sucked away from you makes it less overt to those who can detect the force?

[Vaelastraz]

Nihilus can drain the force planetwide. Vader could not. Yes, Anakin had the greatest force potential ever, but it only remained potential because embraced the dark side.

 

Oh, who am I kidding. Secretly I long to be a Revan fanboy too so that is I too can put forward unfounded theories about how Revan is the greatest ever with no other argument than "OMG, Revan ROXXORS and if you think otherwise you're an idiot - LOL!"

 

That would certainly be a lot easier than actually going through the tiresome process of stating long passages from the game's dialogue to support you position, and which nobody bothers to consider anyway....

 

A laser beam is now force energy too? I'm not talking about absorbing force. You claimed that Nihilus can absorb a laser beam (from a sniper rifle) and I stated that only special Jedi with a talent in that department (Vader, Corran Horn have it, at least that's claimed in "I, Jedi") can do that. Now if Nihilus has that talent, he can do it. But is there any evidence that suggests he can? What are you talking about "force potential?"...

 

Calling me a stupid fanboy because of that.. oh well.

[Jediphile]

Nihilus can drain the force planetwide. Vader could not. Yes, Anakin had the greatest force potential ever, but it only remained potential because embraced the dark side.

 

Oh, who am I kidding. Secretly I long to be a Revan fanboy too so that is I too can put forward unfounded theories about how Revan is the greatest ever with no other argument than "OMG, Revan ROXXORS and if you think otherwise you're an idiot - LOL!"

 

That would certainly be a lot easier than actually going through the tiresome process of stating long passages from the game's dialogue to support you position, and which nobody bothers to consider anyway....

 

A laser beam is now force energy too? I'm not talking about absorbing force. You claimed that Nihilus can absorb a laser beam (from a sniper rifle) and I stated that only special Jedi with a talent in that department (Vader, Corran Horn have it, at least that's claimed in "I, Jedi") can do that. Now if Nihilus has that talent, he can do it. But is there any evidence that suggests he can? What are you talking about "force potential?"...

 

Calling me a stupid fanboy because of that.. oh well.

 

1. I said Vader being able to do whatever he did to Han's blast is a basis for assuming Nihilus might also do it. I did not speak as to what power that would be, but since you bring it up, Force Deflect is fairly common force power for any forceuser to take in the game.

 

2. I trust that if you examine my comment quoted above, you'll find that I did in no way call you "a stupid fanboy", as you put it. Your attempt to infer that is, well, a bit below board in my humble opinion. I apologize if I seem to have struck a nerve, however...

[Emperor Devon]

Debating whether Nihilus can deflect blaster fire with his hands is kind of pointless IMO. He's got a lightsaber, so either way it would be extremely difficult to shoot him dead.

 

Though in theory it should be entirely possible. In JO, using Force push against a blaster bolt could send it flying back to the person who shot it. It seems to me that doing a sort of mini-Force push against a blaster bolt at close range(entirely possible - energy in that form is still something physical) would require less effort than conjuring up some sort of protection field with the Force. Since Nihilus can devour planets and shoot bolts of lightning at people I don't think that would be beyond him.

[Vaelastraz]

1. I said Vader being able to do whatever he did to Han's blast is a basis for assuming Nihilus might also do it. I did not speak as to what power that would be, but since you bring it up, Force Deflect is fairly common force power for any forceuser to take in the game.

 

2. I trust that if you examine my comment quoted above, you'll find that I did in no way call you "a stupid fanboy", as you put it. Your attempt to infer that is, well, a bit below board in my humble opinion. I apologize if I seem to have struck a nerve, however...

 

 

1.) And like I have said already: From my information (out of the book I jedi) this is NOT something everyone can do, but just a few who have talent in that department of the force. And except Vader, I don't recall anyone making use of that ability in the movie either. How my thesis that Nihilus may not be able to do that is "unfounded"..explain please.

 

2.) No, you're right, you did not. I seem to be unable to understand what you say there. Please, enlighten me, what did you mean exactly then?

[adamqd]

Vader doesn't deflect the blaster bolt, he disperses its energy through his body like Vaelastraz Say's, but either way I wouldn't be surprised if Nihilus can do that naturally judging by the nature of his powers.

[Emperor Devon]

1.) And like I have said already: From my information (out of the book I jedi) this is NOT something everyone can do, but just a few who have talent in that department of the force. And except Vader, I don't recall anyone making use of that ability in the movie either. How my thesis that Nihilus may not be able to do that is "unfounded"..explain please.

 

To quote myself:

 

Though in theory it should be entirely possible. In JO, using Force push against a blaster bolt could send it flying back to the person who shot it. It seems to me that doing a sort of mini-Force push against a blaster bolt at close range(entirely possible - energy in that form is still something physical) would require less effort than conjuring up some sort of protection field with the Force. Since Nihilus can devour planets and shoot bolts of lightning at people I don't think that would be beyond him.

 

Vader doesn't deflect the blaster bolt, he disperses its energy through his body like Vaelastraz Say's,

 

I don't think it's possible to disperse (easily, that is). Blaster bolts are concentrated bits of energy that are thousands of degrees hot. Doesn't strike me as something you would easily be able to or want to disperse when you could just deflect it. Combined with how a fair bit of Vader's body was mechanical, putting the energy through himself wouldn't have been very bright.

[adamqd]

Like you said it's irrelevant to the post, but:

 

 

Some Jedi had the ability to absorb energy and if needed redirect it to greatly enhance their Force powers' date=' including telekinesis. there abilities to manipulate energy even allowed them to withstand light saber contact with only minor charring of the skin. Nor were they restricted to lasers and similar sources; they also spread to include things like heat and fire. they had the ability to absorb the heat and flames and convert them into Force power which could then be used to bolster their own powers and make there relatively weak telekinetic powers very strong.[/quote']

 

One of Vader's talents in the Force was to be able to block blaster bolts with his hands, completely dissipating the energy, turning it into raw Force power that he could use. Yoda, Corran Horn, and Jacen Solo demonstrated the ability to channel energy from outside attacks into Force power in similar ways.

[Emperor Devon]

Who's who in the NJO

 

NJO? Need I say more?

 

there abilities to manipulate energy even allowed them to withstand light saber contact with only minor charring of the skin. Nor were they restricted to lasers and similar sources; they also spread to include things like heat and fire. they had the ability to absorb the heat and flames and convert them into Force power which could then be used to bolster their own powers

 

Okay, that's just silly. Another reason for me to consider NJO non-canon...

 

One of Vader's talents in the Force was to be able to block blaster bolts with his hands, completely dissipating the energy, turning it into raw Force power that he could use.

 

Scientifically that makes no sense at all. For Vader to be able to transfer raw energy into Force-power for him to use he'd have to be altering and reshaping its very molecules. If something like that were possible you'd see Jedi making intricate sculptures or being able to perform plastic surgery with the Force, another thing which sounds extremely silly. Or you'd see them carrying around cartridges of tibanna gas to use as portable reservoirs of Force power (silly again).

[adamqd]

Scientifically that makes no sense at all.

 

You do realize star wars is science fiction, and has no basis in what we think should or shouldn't be possible? Besides I didn't say I even cared, like you say NJO sucks. (apart from the new legacy stuff) I'm just pointing out the Facts.

[SilentScope001]

Scientifically that makes no sense at all.

 

Neither does floating lightsabers.

[JawaJoey]

Secretly I long to be a Revan fanboy too so that is I too can put forward unfounded theories about how Revan is the greatest ever with no other argument than "OMG, Revan ROXXORS and if you think otherwise you're an idiot - LOL!"

 

That would certainly be a lot easier than actually going through the tiresome process of stating long passages from the game's dialogue to support you position, and which nobody bothers to consider anyway....

 

You don't actually think that Revan fanboys are that stupid do you? Every type of fanboy has its idiots, and by some definitions of "fanboy," the word includes only them, but those people aren't even worth talking about. So who exactly are you disparaging? Surely not the Revan fans who are seriously supporting Revan's case using evidence.

 

I'm a huge Revan fan, and I still think that Nihilus would most likely win, but I still like to argue for Revan to A) play Devil's advocate and B) explore the possibility that Revan could win (ie defend himself against Nihilus' drain).

 

 

 

 

Concerning the blaster bolt deflection, I think that's irrelevant for many reasons.

1. There's no reason to believe that Nihilus has the rare and exceptional ability to turn energy into the force.

2. An ordinary competant Jedi could probably deflect blaster bolts in some way if they concentrated hard enough, anyways. Nihilus could be safe from the shots one way or another, if they weren't too numerous or strong.

3. He'd just use his lightsaber anyways.

4. Each and every one of those options require concentration, reflex, and just some kind of focus. A sniper shot, at an unguarded moment, could get through even a Sith Lord's defenses. Especially if the assassin is a droid, whose thoughts are undetectable through the force.

5. Anything else besides a perfectly set up sniper shot would be irrelevant, because he could defend himself. And in close quarters, he could do whatever he wants to HK or his weapon.

6. Anyone arguing that Nihilus would not die if he was shot in the head with a blaster bolt is being exactly as unreasonable as anyone who says that Revan would not be killed by Nihilus' force drain.

7. Why are we still talking about HK vs Nihilus anyways?

[Corinthian]

The way I see it, Nihilus can't just reach out and eat you. Otherwise, your party would have dropped dead on the approach to Ravager, except the Exile. I'm guessing he's got to be in some form of meditation to be able to Force Eat, and outside that meditation the power is impossible to use. Keep in mind that Nihilus never even apparently ATTEMPTS to use his ability, which would have been the first thing I did when I team of Jedi Knights busted down my door. So, again, Revan.

[Emperor Devon]

The way I see it, Nihilus can't just reach out and eat you.

 

Visas: When my lord spoke, every living thing on Katarr died.

 

Otherwise, your party would have dropped dead on the approach to Ravager, except the Exile.

 

Nope, as Tobin says, Nihilus just thought killing the party was beneath him.

 

I'm guessing he's got to be in some form of meditation to be able to Force Eat, and outside that meditation the power is impossible to use.

 

We see him use it in-game on the Exile. Took him as long to use as the Drain Life power.

 

Keep in mind that Nihilus never even apparently ATTEMPTS to use his ability, which would have been the first thing I did when I team of Jedi Knights busted down my door. So, again, Revan.

 

Nihilus does attempt to use that ability, albeit with disastrous results. With how he was bonded to Visas and Mandalore wasn't even Force-sensitive he had little reason to use it again.

[simplee]

I vote Nihilus. Well, Draining is a very, very good power...and he can even destroy a planet by himself...Can Revan do?

 

Revan destroyed malachor...

 

and both did not destroy it by themselves but with their fleet...

 

Revan would win for sure.

 

"another thing which sounds extremely silly"

 

one big lol for the guy said this.

we are here in a ****ing star wars forum where peaple fight each other with LIGHTSABERS (and thats silly to me) and use "THE FORCE". they can shoot bolts and **** and you say its silly that they can convert energy to force because it is not PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE.

but yeah all the other stuff from the movie is physically possible ha?

 

...

[Mindtwistah]

Revan destroyed malachor...

 

and both did not destroy it by themselves but with their fleet...

 

Revan would win for sure.

 

 

Revan did not destroy Malachor. It was the msg (Mass Shadow Generator)

And Revan didn't build it, Bao-Dur did. Revan didn't even gave the order to activate it, the Jedi Exile did. So you can't really say that Revan destroyed Malachor..

 

EDIT: Nihilus didn't destroy Katarr with his fleet, he destroyed it with his bare hands. Revan was a tactican, not a lifesucking supervillian.

[adamqd]

I don't know about who's the more powerfull, but the general public seem to prefer Nihilus....

 

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/72552/a-darth-by-any-other-name

[John Galt]

Nihilus is definitely more powerful, but Revan is smarter, by a long shot. Straight-up, head to head, I'd say Nihilus would drain Revan dry, but Revan, being a strategic genius, would not allow himself to be caught in a situation that he would probably lose. I'd say Revan would have blown up the Ravager before killing Darth Nihilus, thus avoiding a one on one battle.

 

I think this would work, too. Notice that if you threaten Nihilus with blowing up his ship, Visas says that he has no clue what you're talking about, that he only sees worlds and stars? Sounds like an easily exploitable weakness for a strategist like Revan.

[JK24]

Well, after reading the 12 and a half pages of this thread, I must confess that I'm ashamed that I voted for Revan, even though I'm a big fan of his and I like him definetely more than Nihilus.

 

Anyway, the only one who could defeat Nihilus seems to be the Jedi Exile, based upon the 2 games and the canon information that there is so far. If Revan were to know some anti-Nihilus drain power(which is not confirmed) then yes, he could beat Nihilus in a 1 on 1. But then again, Nihilus could also know an anti-anti-Nihilus power(which is also not confirmed). Having said that, Nihilus would definetely beat Revan by sucking him up like he did with the Masters on Katarr. Then again, Revan, being a great strategist and military leader would beat Nihilus, if their armies confronted.

 

But in the end, I want to say that I agree with True_Avery: this isn't really a fair fight considering Nihilus is like a black hole and Revan is a very powerful Jedi Knight or Sith Lord(probably the most powerful of his era).

[Jedi MasterRoot]

REVAN ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!! Revan would wipe the floor with Nihilus, regardless of his ability to drain. notice how visas was never affected aboared his ship? so why wouldnt a more powerful sith/jedi be unaffected? Hmmmmmm? Case closed!

[stoffe]

notice how visas was never affected aboared his ship? so why wouldnt a more powerful sith/jedi be unaffected?

 

Visas had a force bond with Darth Nihilus: if he had drained her he'd by extension drain himself.

 

Which most likely is the reason behind the forced composition of your task force on the Ravager: The Exile (flipside of Nihilus coin, immune to his drain), Visas (force-bonded with Nihilus, he can't drain her) and Mandalore (the only non-force sensitive organic on the crew, and thus a sub-optimal choice for Nihilus to feed on).

[Jedi MasterRoot]

Visas had a force bond with Darth Nihilus: if he had drained her he'd by extension drain himself.

 

well, bond or no bond, nihilus couldnt control his power so what was stopping him from draining visas?

 

also with mandalore, if u look around the bridge to where you fight him, go to the edge and youll see his DRAINED NON-FORCE SENSITIVE crew! Explain that!

[Reclaimer]

Revan. Why?

 

Revan was a destroyer of worlds in a sense. He destroyed them from the inside. He could corrupt a follower more then the exile could. His studies of the True Sith on Malachor and the Unknown Regions made him understand their techniques, and his fall from Dark Lord of the Sith to a powerful Jedi made him understand both sides of the force and their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Nihilus was pure power. He was a pawn of the force, corrupted as Kriea had said. Nihilus relied on the force, while Revan didn't. Nihilus only lost against the exile because the exile was a hole in the force, he was nothing, and you cannot kill what is not there. Revan was in tune with the force, but his studies made him almost invulnerable to it, showing that he had become one with the force outside of death.

 

So I say Revan would win. His knowledge of Sith techniques and power and his own power would best Nihilus.

[stoffe]

well, bond or no bond, nihilus couldnt control his power so what was stopping him from draining visas?

 

Self-preservation? Not even a mindless beast would consume itself. And he's not quite as mindless as that, really. He sent Visas after the Exile and was behind the Sith activities on Onderon and Dxun.

 

also with mandalore, if u look around the bridge to where you fight him, go to the edge and youll see his DRAINED NON-FORCE SENSITIVE crew! Explain that!

 

I don't need to, since the game already does through dialog (with Colonel Tobin I believe) Nihilus slowly drains everyone in his presence, including his own crew, merely by being near them without expending any energy or will to do so. The crew of the Ravager have been with him for years, so the effects on them are plainly visible. Presumably he's actively shielding Visas from it, unless the "ambient drain aura" (or whatever) is weak enough that force sensitives (unlike his regular crew) can protect themselves from it.

 

The Exile's task force only makes a brief visit on the ship, an hour or two at most, and as such that innate drain would not be harmful during such a short exposure.

 

To actively drain someone, like the instakill drain he did to every living thing on Katarr and tried to do to the Exile, expends his power and makes him more "hungry". A Jedi might be strong enough in the force to make it worthwhile, but not a single non-force sensitive. As the game dialog says he'd have to feed on all life on Citadel Station and the planet below for it to be worthwhile if there are no force users.

 

Thus, unless Revan had some means to shield or block Nihilus drain power she would just prove to be a significantly tastier and more nutritious snack for Nihilus to feed on. The fight would be over before it had a chance to begin, being drained to an empty husk within seconds.