Grammar Wars

[Hallucination]

Mod note: Thread split out from this thread since it's developing into a topic of its own rather than "Getting to know each other". ~M

 

@Darth_Reader/KotO[REvan: Hi, I'm Hallucination. Once you hear what I have to say, you'll understand. [/herbie]

 

@Devon: I demand that you announce my awesome to all newbies, and include the fact that I have just attached a phonetics lab to my grammar cave.

 

P.S. 'Latter' has two more than one 't'.

[Dark_Lady]

@Devon: I demand that you announce my awesome to all newbies, and include the fact that I have just attached a phonetics lab to my grammar cave.

 

P.S. 'Latter' has two more than one 't'.

And the appropriate phrase in this context would be "announce my awesomeness," not "announce my awesome," "awesome" being an adjective and not something which can be announced, unlike the noun "awesomeness." Perhaps you meant to say: "announce the fact that I am awesome"?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Emperor Devon]

@Devon: I demand that you announce my awesome to all newbies, and include the fact that I have just attached a phonetics lab to my grammar cave.

 

Hello there newbies, that's Hallucination, by the way. Once you hear what he has to say, his perfect spelling and grammar (developed in his grammar cave's phonetics clab) will make sure you understand.

 

P.S. 'Latter' has two more than one 't'.

 

There's more than one way of spelling it (like 'color' and 'colour'). 'Later' is the one that's used where I live.

[Rogue Nine]

There's more than one way of spelling it (like 'color' and 'colour'). 'Later' is the one that's used where I live.

Uh, Hallucination's right. "Latter" and "later" have the same root (late), but "latter" specifically refers to the second of two mentioned things, as it was with you and Jae. "Later" is simply an adjective or an adverb meaning afterwards. Now you can argue different dialects of English, but the spelling on these two words are pretty universally accepted, as the addition or subtraction of that extra "t" changes the meaning substantially.

[Emperor Devon]

"Later" is simply an adjective or an adverb meaning afterwards. Now you can argue different dialects of English, but the spelling on these two words are pretty universally accepted, as the addition or subtraction of that extra "t" changes the meaning substantially.

 

'Latter' would seem mostly pointless if 'later' includes the instance it's used in in addition to other ones. Probably why I've not heard it used extensively.

[Rogue Nine]

Surely you've heard of the former...latter phrase in modern speech?

 

Hotel Asylum (written by Jae and Devon, and further modified by the later)

In this instance, you're the latter and Jae is the former. I don't quite understand what you mean by "latter" being pointless, since it makes more sense than "later" in this sentence. You're making "later" act as a determiner, when its usage is strictly regulated to that of an adverb or an adjective.

 

How exactly do you pronounce "later"?

[Emperor Devon]

Surely you've heard of the former...latter phrase in modern speech?

 

A few times. It hasn't been used at all by any people I've known, though.

 

In this instance, you're the latter and Jae is the former. I don't quite understand what you mean by "latter" being pointless, since it makes more sense than "later" in this sentence.

 

It would seem so if 'later' refers to anything succeeding the former. The only time 'latter' would be needed is if you were being specific, and referring to the second part of something. Of course, it's fairly pointless since there can be more than two things that come after something. You'd need a term for the third, fourth, fifth, and later ones as well.

 

You're making "later" act as a determiner, when its usage is strictly regulated to that of an adverb or an adjective.

 

English already has words that can belong to more than one category. It wouldn't be inconsistent to have the same with 'later'.

 

How exactly do you pronounce "later"?

 

Lay-ter.

[Jae Onasi]

You guys should be writing fanfics if you're willing to have esoteric discussions on the difference between later/latter. Yes, that is a shameless plug for the CEC forum....

 

And Emperor Devon, it is supposed to be 'latter', see http://www.bartleby.com/68/9/2609.html for short blurb on usage. It's used with some frequency in the Midwest.

[Rogue Nine]

It would seem so if 'later' refers to anything succeeding the former. The only time 'latter' would be needed is if you were being specific, and referring to the second part of something. Of course, it's fairly pointless since there can be more than two things that come after something. You'd need a term for the third, fourth, fifth, and later ones as well.

I've never heard of someone using 'later' to succeed to 'former'. And weren't you being specific and referring to the second part of something with your statement "written by Jae and Devon, and further modified by the later"? Seems to me you were referring to the second thing of two in that bit. And your point about more than two things is moot, since we're dealing with only two things.

 

 

English already has words that can belong to more than one category. It wouldn't be inconsistent to have the same with 'later'.

Uh, but you wouldn't use the word 'incontrovertible' as a noun or the word 'bag' as an adjective, since they do not function that way. It's the same deal with 'later', because as an adj/adv, it can't act as a determiner or a noun.

 

 

Lay-ter.

I thought you might have been pronouncing it "LAT-er" and simply misspelling it. But since you do believe it to be 'later', then you're just going to have to learn something here. After all, Jae's thrown her lot in with me and Hallucination. I don't think you've got a chance here, mate.

[Jae Onasi]

Devon just got grammar-pwned....

[igyman]

I think that all you people are missing the point and the point is:

 

And the appropriate phrase in this context would be "announce my awesomeness," not "announce my awesome," "awesome" being an adjective and not something which can be announced, unlike the noun "awesomeness." Perhaps you meant to say: "announce the fact that I am awesome"?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

In one short sentence this means: Hallucination got pwned!!

He is hereby removed from the honorable and responsible position of the Chief of Grammar Police and I am taking his place for the time being, he is now... the Deputy.

[Hallucination]

There's more than one way of spelling it (like 'color' and 'colour'). 'Later' is the one that's used where I live.

Color and colour are not alternative spellings, they're from different versions of English, so one is incorrect in one place X but right in place Y, while the other is correct in place X but wrong in place Y.

 

And the appropriate phrase in this context would be "announce my awesomeness," not "announce my awesome," "awesome" being an adjective and not something which can be announced, unlike the noun "awesomeness." Perhaps you meant to say: "announce the fact that I am awesome"?

I refuse to use 'ness' to make the word 'awesome' a noun because I feel it dilutes the awesome of the word. Also, I looked around for a few minutes, and found no proof that it exists outside of American English. Being a loyal subject of Her Royal Highness Elizabeth II, queen of Canada, I use Canadian English.

[JediMaster12]

Grammar Wars!

 

We now find our hero, in this case Hall arguing the difference between Canadian English and the bastardized American English. He has just justified his reasoning and now we await if the Dark Lord will challenge him...

 

Sorry had to do it since I was reading the last few posts while high on a sugar rush. Glad to be back after a while and I see some things haven't changed.

[Rabish Bini]

Technically, "awesomeness" is not a real word. Look it up. Try using define: on google, try looking it up on wikipedia, or in a dictionary. It is not a real word. In fact, here is a link.

But you could say, "Announce how awesome I am." But Hall is also wrong because "Announce my awesome." An adjective is never used at the end of a sentence unless it's describing something as in "The bear is brown." But since it's not, it's wrong.

Pwned by a 14 year old.

[CSI]

Technically, "awesomeness" is not a real word. Look it up. Try using define: on google, try looking it up on wikipedia, or in a dictionary. It is not a real word. In fact, here is a link.

But you could say, "Announce how awesome I am." But Hall is also wrong because "Announce my awesome." An adjective is never used at the end of a sentence unless it's describing something as in "The bear is brown." But since it's not, it's wrong.

Pwned by a 14 year old.

 

No comments, and I think Hall gots pwned...

 

@Hall: Come on, admit it...I dislike excuses...

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

The word "awesome" transcends grammar. I am confident Hallucination will prove this.

[Rogue Nine]

I think "announce my awesome" more grammatically sound than using 'later' in conjunction with 'former'. Besides, I don't think Hallucination was going for grammatical correctness as opposed to just defining the magnitude of how awesome he is. "My awesome" just sounds so much better than "my awesomeness".

 

So don't go around and be all "yay, Hallucination slipped up", because I think he did that intentionally. Meaning you all got pwned.

[Dark_Lady]

Technically, "awesomeness" is not a real word. Look it up. Try using define: on google, try looking it up on wikipedia, or in a dictionary. It is not a real word. In fact, here is a link.

*snip*

Pwned by a 14 year old.

Actually, my dear 14-year-old, Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published in 1913, defines the word as:

 

Awe·some·ness

n.

The quality of being awesome.

 

Awesomeness has been a word for at least nearly a century. (To tell you the truth, I looked it up myself before correcting Hallucination to make sure I wasn't slipping up horribly. )

 

I think "announce my awesome" more grammatically sound than using 'later' in conjunction with 'former'.

Technically, there is no such thing as "more (or less) grammatically sound," unless it is a case of the usage being grammatically acceptable in some areas and not in others.

 

So don't go around and be all "yay, Hallucination slipped up", because I think he did that intentionally. Meaning you all got pwned.

And how Hallucination could "pwn" us, by deliberately slipping up in a matter he has been proclaiming himself "master" of, eludes me.

 

I refuse to use 'ness' to make the word 'awesome' a noun because I feel it dilutes the awesome of the word. Also, I looked around for a few minutes, and found no proof that it exists outside of American English. Being the loyal subject of Her Royal Highness Elizabeth II, queen of Canada, I use Canadian English.

Agreed. It is American English. But it is indeed English. "Announce my awesome" is incorrect in any form of English (including Canadian). Also, not knowing which country you hailed from, I offered two different corrections, "announce my awesomeness" and "announce the fact that I am awesome." The latter is correct in any dialect of English. So this excuse is moot.

[Rabish Bini]

Actually, my dear 14-year-old, Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, published in 1913, defines the word as:

 

Awe·some·ness

n.

The quality of being awesome.

 

Awesomeness has been a word for at least nearly a century. (To tell you the truth, I looked it up myself before correcting Hallucination to make sure I wasn't slipping up horribly. )

 

Really? I didn't check in the dictionary, I used google. Ah well, can't pwn them all.

 

@Rogue9 - Me? Pwned? Bah humbug. Announce my awesome does not go. Read my last post.

[Rogue Nine]

I'm not disputing the incorrectness of "announce my awesome". I'm simply stating that it can work colloquially.

 

Y'all need to get a sense of humor.

[Hallucination]

The word "awesome" transcends grammar. I am confident Hallucination will prove this.

Awesome transcends all of the English language, as shown in this spiffy mathematical expression: awesome > English grammar > gravity.

 

 

@Dark_Lady: It's not a mistake if it's intentionally by someone who is fully aware that it is wrong. It's still incorrect, but it's not a mistake. Remember that a cook burns the top of creme brulee because he's supposed to burn it.

 

@Dev-Dev McNancy: I have a phonetics lab, not a phonetics 'clab'.

[Rabish Bini]

Sene of humour? Okay. HAHAHAHAHA. Good enough?

 

@Hall - A cook may burn a brulwateva, but he doesn't burn spelling.

 

I have a question about grammar. Is it correct to say, "How much fun we had had." If you think about it, it makes sense. But I don't think you can put the exact same word together in one sentence, unless they have to be together, in which case they are seperated by a comma.

Any thoughts?

[Grey Master]

This is one of the best threads around.

[The Source]

The door is ajar.

[Rogue Nine]

Sene of humour? Okay. HAHAHAHAHA. Good enough?

No.

 

@Hall - A cook may burn a brulwateva, but he doesn't burn spelling.

This wins for worst comeback of the year.

 

I have a question about grammar. Is it correct to say, "How much fun we had had." If you think about it, it makes sense. But I don't think you can put the exact same word together in one sentence, unless they have to be together, in which case they are seperated by a comma.

Any thoughts?

Voilà.