Endurance, not Health

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I've been playing TSL recently, and this just popped into my head while I was engaged in some combat. Why not, in K3, change HP (health points) into EP (endurance points). I'm tired of how when you hit someone with a lightsaber (or they hit you), they just lose some HP but don't die.

 

I think HP should be changed into endurance, meaning that as you progress through a fight, you start to tire out and your (or your opponents) attacks and blocks become sloppy. Eventually, if your opponent loses enough endurance, then you would be able to penetrate his defense and slice him with one swing. This system would still keep the same point-and-click style that the other two KotORs have, but the fights would look much more realistic.

 

Now of course, the combat isn't the reason that I play KotOR, but it would be a welcome addition to KotOR III.

[jonathan7]

I actually think that sounds like a great idea!

[Hallucination]

I had an idea like this one a while ago, so I approve it. It would also be a good reason to change the animations so people can't get impaled 20 times in a fight and still win.

[RedHawke]

I've been playing TSL recently, and this just popped into my head while I was engaged in some combat. Why not, in K3, change HP (health points) into EP (endurance points). I'm tired of how when you hit someone with a lightsaber (or they hit you), they just lose some HP but don't die.

Because it is based off of a PnP RPG system and that is how they work. Games like D&D (which D20 is based off of) is essentially a game of 'nics and cuts'. This kind of thing is part of the games core mechanics, and even if you called them Endurance points your complaints would still be there.

 

Remember if you instigated 'realistic damage' for the NPC's it would also apply to your PC, and dying the first time you get hit with a saber makes for a frustrating game to play.

[Carlo El Sanchez]

And its player vs CPU, Eagerweasel your idea sounds great and would be good in KOTOR III.

[Vaelastraz]

So far, I've not seen ONE rpg that emphasizes that much on realistic combat.

 

In every game, you have to hit your enemy till his healthbar reaches zero, that's just the way it works. Even Dark Messiah that focuses soley on combat...

 

Also, what about blasters and force powers? do they drain endurance too?

[Salzella]

you'd have to balance it right, but i like this idea, as some fights i've noticed can descend into stalemates in certain situations, it would certainly be more realistic aswell.

[Prime]

To me they are essentially the same system...

[Jason Skywalker]

Sounds a good idea, but i have to agree with Prime and RedHawke. They seem the same system and it would apply to your PC and NPC's.

[SilentScope001]

To me they are essentially the same system...

 

Of course! So, how about make a mod that replace Hit Points with...er..."Endurance Points!"

 

Realism FTW!

[Henz]

It's largely changing a letter really isn't it. HP or EP. I get what you're saying, but it wont bother me however they label it.

[Vaelastraz]

No it would be changing more than a letter.

 

Combat animations would always have parries and dodges, till someone gets "tired". Then a blow penetrates that opponent's defense.

[Ctrl Alt Del]

A simple and fair idea. I like it.

[Henz]

No it would be changing more than a letter.

 

Combat animations would always have parries and dodges, till someone gets "tired". Then a blow penetrates that opponent's defense.

 

Oh yeah. Didn't read it closely enough hehe.

 

Yeah it's not a bad idea. I don't mind the way it is, but less blows from a lightsaber would add to the realism and allow for more dynamic battles similar to the films, instead of whack, ouch, whack, ouch. hehe

[SilentScope001]

Combat animations would always have parries and dodges, till someone gets "tired". Then a blow penetrates that opponent's defense.

 

Ah. But, of course, the blow will penerates that opponent's defense when the Endurance Points get to Zero correct? That is when the person gets so tired he says, "PLEASE! Give me a mintue to drink some water! Please, so that I can go and destroy you!11!" Then you attack him one more time, and you finally penerate that defense! W00t! (And of course, the way to decrease the Endurance Point is to hit the enemy's "Endurance"...aka his body, thereby causing him to lose EP...)

 

Nah, no real point to put it in 'tired' animation. You already have one, with the enemy (and you) grabbing their sholuder in an attempt to keep themselves alive. They are already tired. And..."tired" lightsaber attacks? Come on, I don't think the developers would have that much time to program that in...and only for stylism purposes!

 

So, really, it is just changing a letter.

[Hallucination]

Ah. But, of course, the blow will penerates that opponent's defense when the Endurance Points get to Zero correct? That is when the person gets so tired he says, "PLEASE! Give me a mintue to drink some water! Please, so that I can go and destroy you!11!" Then you attack him one more time, and you finally penerate that defense! W00t! (And of course, the way to decrease the Endurance Point is to hit the enemy's "Endurance"...aka his body, thereby causing him to lose EP...)

 

Nah, no real point to put it in 'tired' animation. You already have one, with the enemy (and you) grabbing their sholuder in an attempt to keep themselves alive. They are already tired. And..."tired" lightsaber attacks? Come on, I don't think the developers would have that much time to program that in...and only for stylism purposes!

 

So, really, it is just changing a letter.

 

You've obviously never been in a sword or any type of weapon fight. When you get tired in the middle of a fight you don't ask for water, you keep on fighting. And it isn't when you get tired and need a nap that you would be killed, it would be when you're too worn out to move quickly enough to dodge a blow or when an opponent decides he should risk doing an attack that could kill you.

 

P.S. What's a mintue?

[SilentScope001]

You've obviously never been in a sword or any type of weapon fight. When you get tired in the middle of a fight you don't ask for water, you keep on fighting. And it isn't when you get tired and need a nap that you would be killed, it would be when you're too worn out to move quickly enough to dodge a blow or when an opponent decides he should risk doing an attack that could kill you.

 

I was using the art of scarcasm in an attempt to make my point. The current system looks fine. And what if we DON'T like sword fighting? What if we prefer using The Force, or using blasters?

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Then you attack him one more time, and you finally penerate that defense! W00t! (And of course, the way to decrease the Endurance Point is to hit the enemy's "Endurance"...aka his body, thereby causing him to lose EP...)

Uh....no. The way to "penetrate" a person's defense is not to hit his body. If that were the case, there would be no point in this. To make him "tire out", just continue to make strikes until he loses all (or most) of his "endurance points" (that's just a name I came up with, of course it wouldn't have to be "endurance"). Also, the amount of points the person loses could still be defined by his defense and whatever defensive or will saves he makes. If a person makes a save, he would lose less. If he doesn't make a save, he loses more. I admit, in essence it's not that much different from the current system, but "looks" and "realism" is what I want improved.

[Vaelastraz]

What's the point of having more realism than any other RPG in combat, when Kotor is clearly not focussed on combat...

 

Anyway do i get that right?

 

You attack and behind the scene, it is STILL calculated if you hit your opponent or not. In case you hit him, his endurance points drop by a certain amount, however the combat animations show you a parry or dodge.

Once that opponents Endurance points are 0, the combat animation shows you a successfull attack, which goes through defenses and is not blocked or dodged.

 

Ok. So, healing powers are now "endurance restorers" ? Same for medipacks?

What about force lightning, does that train endurance too? What about blasters?

 

Sorry, but to me it doesn't make sense.

[Sabretooth]

The idea sounds sort of good, even though it deviates from established RPG standards. But IMO, the system should be only be implemented aesthetically, i.e. the lightsaber never actually hits your enemy till the final blow - till which it is missing and parrying. Also, a "Rest" feature would allow EP healing. But an actual reduce in attack and defense value would most likely hinder the D20 system.

 

A second problem I see is, that if your endurance drops low, I don't know if a friendly Force Heal will help you. And a man with no endurance does not necessarily mean a man without health... So, Endurance can possibly be a third factor, figuring alongside Health and ForcePoints.

 

You will start each battle with 50% Endurance, and it will increase as you attack your enemy successfully. BUT, it will decrease if you use items,miss or get hit. Once your endurance reaches 100% (or 90-100) you will be able to release a powerful attack, which can be possible with a new class of Feats. This attack will drop your Endurance back down to 25-50. Losing endurance to 0, will make your character limp and your attacks will become sloppier. To avoid the battle become one-sided, there will be an Endurance-penalty, i.e. If you attack an Enemy thrice successively (regardless of Power Attack, Flurry or Crtical Strike) your Endurance will be decreased.

 

Endurance of 0-25 will dictate sloppy, inaccurate attacks, 25-50 will be poor-quality attacks, and 50-100 will be standard attacks.

[Henz]

Yeah I'm thinking it should be mostly asthetic in terms of melee dueling.

 

The endurance thing could sort of work with blaster/lightning... blocking lightsaber style until you're nackered and get hit.... gets into over-complicated territory though.

[Sno0ze]

Hmm well it does sound like a good idea but, there is one thing about KotOR. Saber fights have a severe lack of uniquity in them. And if you were fight for longer just trying to get their endurance down, then get to the fleshy part, it might look and become just boring. I think KotOR could progress to using a completely real time combat system. While the turn based system makes KotOR recognizable and stand out against the others, in some ways like for adding an endurance system such as this a real time system I think would be necessary.

 

Although to compensate for the repetativity of the fights, more gore could be added, severed limbs etc.. but then your entering a different arena.

 

~Sno0ze

[SilentScope001]

What's the point of having more realism than any other RPG in combat, when Kotor is clearly not focussed on combat...

 

Quoted For Truth. Really, what's the whole point of making KOTOR realistic? If you really want it, just mod it in. It's not that hard.

 

And if you put this in, you nerf fist-fighters and pistol weilders. That is hardly fair.

 

Combat is already intense for me, and I do not want to have developers waste time making a better system when they can make a better story.

[Hallucination]

What's the point of having more realism than any other RPG in combat, when Kotor is clearly not focussed on combat...

I just think after I get beheaded for the fifth time in ten minutes I get a bit bored.

 

Ok. So, healing powers are now "endurance restorers" ? Same for medipacks?

 

I believe that numerous times in the EU Force-users have used the Force to eliminate fatigue or for a short burst of energy. Medipacks could contain steroids or painkillers.

 

What about force lightning, does that train endurance too? What about blasters?

Call me a sissy, but I imagine getting hit by lightning would hurt, and for Jedi it might take a bit of conscious effort to weaken the effects. As for blasters, dodging/deflecting them might be a bit tiring.

 

Keep in mind there could still be glancing blows/flesh wounds in the fights, just not stabs through the heart or beheadings.

[PoiuyWired]

Well, mind as well keep the whole HP thing, but change the animations. I mean, no point changing something obvious like HP to some weird s terms.