Ztalker Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Hmmmmm Interesting... Croatia went out against Turkey. I thought Turkey would play more offensive after the last match (the 3-2 was a sensation. Brilliant goals), but they didn't. I hope they will drop the 'save! SAVE! NO RISK!' football after this. They have all the potential in the world to play a mean game of football! And...Croatia...too bad. I enjoyed watching them, but it seemed they simply weren't ready. I had very high expections. Especially of Modric, which I find to be one of the best players. I hope a new Croatia will be ready in 2010. Anyways...Komrad Hiddink faces the Dutch tonight...thoughts? I think the Dutch are bit to over confident...Van Persie saying 'no-one can stop us' and stuff. I hope they win, but I wouldn't mind Russia beating them. Russia plays attractive football. It would be a bless for their country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Monance Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 So that's it. Germany is in the final round. Or does anyone seriously think that Turkey can stop them? There's a reason Germany is called the "tournament-team". I'll have to wait and see how Holland and Italy do vs Spain and Russia, but I think Germany is the top aspirant now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Being a huge fan of Guus Hiddink, if there is one man in the world that can set a team against a dutch side, its him! Go Russia for tonite!! Unless Italy somehow manage to play well, I really hope they get bundled out. Its the kick in the backside their public needs perhaps, to understand they need to put more time and energy into their *youth policy* !! All they seem to have gone on about in Italy was Inzaghi being left out the side... FFS! Gives some younger players some much needed international experience. The "9 over 30" they have been fielding simply defies belief, as far as forward planning is concerned! Croatia, France, Turkiye, even Portugal, all gave some good younger players a run this tourney, and their 2010 preparation will be all the better for it. I was thoroughly impressed with Turkiye's Arda Turan. One our teams stars this tourney, and only 21 yo Lets just hope the remaining matches we get are fun to watch Im utterly sick of seeing Germany and Italy win things, so if anyone other than them win, It'll be super! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawathehutt Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I am quite happy Germany won and Croatia lost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 Russia deserved winners; though if Spain get through I would expect them to beat the Russians again. If I may venture reasons for the Dutch's defeat... The tragedy that happened the Boulahrouz I think affected the whole squad. The injury to Arjen Robben... They lacked a winger all night; he could of been key to breaking the Russian back-line when it was 0-1 Finally I think they may have begun to believe their own press; and might have thought they were going to win in a manner similar to Spain. For whatever reason I don't think many of the Dutch players turned up. Russia were outstanding again, though I think at some point they will be punished for their lack of clinical finishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Firstly, ANY team that thinks it can get by on its previous performances and reputation alone, without putting 100% on the pitch deserves to get taught a lesson. Thanks to Guus Hiddink, Russia did it against The Netherlands. 3-1 in extra time (for those that didnt catch it). Hiddink has proven he's the best coach in the damn solar system. And Arshavin, looks like he's 12yo, but he can sure play! ...the last goal going through Van Der Sars legs, sweet....oh so sweet... go Russkys! Kudos to Turkiye and Russia for proving that a hard working team with a bit of belief can achieve anything. Still, both of these teams have a lot of hard work to do if they want to make a good showing at their next matches. mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Try hearing that one of your best mate's children has died, then see if you can give your all in a sport as fast paced and demanding as football against an equally matched team. Well, looks like I'll be cheering for Germany and/or Spain for the rest of the tournament. As long as Italy and Russia get put out, I'll be happy. And maybe Turkey, just out of spite. While Russia may have deserved to win, I still can't bring myself to cheer for the team that brought down my own. -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 And maybe Turkey, just out of spite. oh great work. *claps* If they were all so devastated about the tragedy that occurred, they seriously should not have taken the pitch. Otherwise, they are doing their whole nation a dis-service. When you are wearing your country's colours, you simply cannot walk onto the pitch without pledging to put 100% in. Simple as that. If they had won the game, the tragedy would have been cited as an inspiration. Unfortunately, when their performance wasnt up to muster, it is cited as an excuse. Where does the truth lie? I definitely know that if I was the player in question, I wouldnt have even taken the field. How can you possibly even dream of playing a proper game in that mental state??? And unlike you, Doctor, rather than make personal attacks, my swipe was at the standard of play of a team that quite literally "believed its own hype" they got served. In other football bews, looks like Ronaldo has come to his senses and will edge his way towards Spain. Seem like Scolari may have had a hand in convincing him too. Even though Im a Barca fan, Im all for it. He needs to mature as a player, and the EPL or Sir Alex simply isnt going to do that for him. Though MU are trying hard to break away from the long ball game, as long as you still play against many other teams that still play that way, it can only do so much for developing your skills. Its a good move, which RMadrid fans and Portugal fans should be quite pleased about. Still not signed and sealed though mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 <snip> All the above is your opinion A7 - and I don't think not playing was an option; life does go on, and if you don't play your out anyway. So I think you do your nation more of a disservice by not playing. I'd certainly play regardless of my where I was mentally, but we are all different, some are more resilient than others. On a personal note, can you two stop having a go at each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltiades Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 The Dutch players themselves didn't look for any excuses. They said what was the truth: Russia was the better team today, and what a team they are. Was rooting for them from the start, partly because Hiddink was trainer, and yes, A7, he is one of the best trainers ever, in my opinion. Also, Doctor, you can't deny the fact that arrogance always creeps up a little in the Dutch team, whether it's due to themselves or to the media, it always happens. Me, I'm so happy Holland is out. But regardless of that, Russia was just unbelievable today. It could've been so much more than 1-3. I feared a little that their play was going to leave them vulnerable against Holland, but it turned out different. This team has a lot of potential, but what can you expect from a team which has Hiddink as trainer and players like Kolodin, Pavluchenko and Semak. But the real star was of course Arsjavin. What a player. I really hope they can prove themselves again against either Italy or Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 partly because Hiddink was trainer, and yes, A7, he is one of the best trainers ever, in my opinion. Indeed he is, though I wish people would just up about South Korea and 2002 as the only reason they got to the semi-final was thanks to some of the worst refereeing in the history of the game. And I'm sorry; this is coming from a neutral but Spain having 3 goals disallowed in that quarter-final goes much further than just poor refereeing and to a far more sinister place. Not that I think Hiddink had anything to do with match fixing; but as a qualified Ref myself I find it unreasonable to conclude that you could make 3 "mistakes" of that gravity accidentally. Especially given the linesman was 2 foot away from Jaoquim on the 3rd one, and if he thinks that was off the pitch, he should just no longer be a match official, but he should be given a guide dog as he would have to be blind! [/end rant] A7... In other football bews, looks like Ronaldo has come to his senses and will edge his way towards Spain. Seem like Scolari may have had a hand in convincing him too. Even though Im a Barca fan, Im all for it. He needs to mature as a player, and the EPL or Sir Alex simply isnt going to do that for him. Though MU are trying hard to break away from the long ball game, as long as you still play against many other teams that still play that way, it can only do so much for developing your skills. Its a good move, which RMadrid fans and Portugal fans should be quite pleased about. Still not signed and sealed though mtfbwya Would you like me to send you a CV of my various footballing qualifications because you clearly have never watched Man Utd if you think they have ever played a 'long ball game'. Chelsea and to an extent Liverpool both play long ball games. Neither Man Utd nor Arsenal do. You may also wish to respond to this post as you haven't yet... http://www.lucasforums.com/showpost.php?p=2481476&postcount=190 My opinion of Cristiano Ronaldo; he's a very good player, but I wouldn't want him in my team... Quite simply he is not a champion; Ronaldo is very good when things are going for him in a game, but when things go against him he goes missing. This is why both Messi and Kaka are better players. Also if I were Ronaldo I wouldn't leave United just yet, I'd stay for 2 more years then move... His development at United has been impressive - United are far better for youngsters than Madrid. Also if I was United, given Madrid's yet again disgraceful behaviour, I would say to Barca; give us Deco, Ronaldinho, Eto' and 10 million and you can have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 ... I made no swipe, Astro. It seems you conveniently missed the ":xp:" I placed in my last post. For a moderator, not so much with the observation. That was a swipe. On a personal note, can you two stop having a go at each I'm only giving as good as I get here. I'm simply retaliating to undeserved stabs. It appears that Astro is either blind, can't read, or can't take a joke. Hey! Another swipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Cmon, Jonathan, the *whole world* has an opinion on what is going on with this character! We are just venting ours here. We neednt heed nor take them seriously And last I noticed, *neither* of us were tasked with the multi-million dollar responsibility of managing an EPL or Primera side. So, were just chippin in our 2c. Being top scorer of the EPL surely means Cristiano has distinguished himself among his peers, the very definition of a champion(apart from the fact that he actually is a member of a championsip team!) I like change, change is good. The weather, the women, the culture, the food, are all lovely in Spain, he'd be bonkers to not go ! [/iMO] Doc. I wouldnt play the smiley=Im joking game too much Can we stick to the football please? This isnt about you or me ![/2nd time] mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Unbelievable, truly unbelievable, Klassnic scores, soon after some other guy scores, then Modric and Rakitic choke. But honestly, we destroyed em, Olic missed a sitter, open goal, all he had to do was hit it on target, and he hits the bar, and Srna missed a sitter too, cross cam in, all he had to do was redirect it, but he kicks it towards the sideline. Olic, our running machine, was absolutely cr@p. Holland losing to Russia, that always happens to Holland, they dominate group stages, then lose, same goes for Spain, for me, the teams to beat are Russia and Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 lolz...jonathan, yes. send me your CV. I'll forward it to El Gato, my director of football operations! So if your so up on football Astro, why on earth do you think Man Utd play the long game? Because they don't and never have under Ferguson; your going along with a national stereotype (which for many English/British players is correct) but is not correct with Man Utd, nor for that matter the pretentious team that is Arsenal. If your offering me a job, where are you based? who do you work for? and what's available? Cmon, the *whole world* has an opinion on what is going on with this character! We are just venting ours here. We neednt heed nor take them seriously My experience is thus; many people have opinions on football; and most don't have a clue about the game, nor have they played it at any significant level. And last I noticed, *neither* of us were tasked with the multi-million dollar responsibility of managing an EPL or Primera side. So, were just chippin in our 2c. Being top scorer of the EPL surely means Cristiano has distinguished himself among his peers, the very definition of a champion(apart from the fact that he actually is a member of a championsip team!) My opinion; Champions are shown at big moments, how they come back from disasters; it's easy to play well when everything is going for you. For an example of this look at Brazil's Ronaldo; loosing France 98, then 4 years of injury hell and coming back to win the World Cup in 02. Zidane's career would be a study in such moments as well; Champion's don't give up and keep fighting... You could see for example when Chelsea equalised in the Champions League final see that Ronaldo's head dropped - and he didn't come back into. Neither do I recall either Zidane or Ronaldo missing penalties on the stage Cristiano has. (They both missed pens, but never in big moments, consider Ronaldo's hat-trick of pens vs Argentina, now that's pressure and response! I like change, change is good. The weather, the women, the culture, the food, are all lovely in Spain, he'd be bonkers to not go ! [/iMO] I didn't say he shouldn't go, and change can be good - testing in a different league etc, but I don't think he should go now, he's going to go - but this United team could go onto dominate in Europe, Madrid are too unstable to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 So if your so up on football Astro, why on earth do you think Man Utd play the long game? c'mon, they have their lapses. And, its who they play against that shapes their skill set/bag o tricks. Though MU are trying hard to break away from the long ball game, as long as you still play against many other teams that still play that way, it can only do so much for developing your skills. If English players(most of them playing in England), style is so untainted by the LB tendency, why *Have they appointed an Italian coach *Are they not in E2008 ?? Capello himself has said, he never can hope to move england away from its LB style! But wants to develop a 'mix' where they become comfortable keeping the ball, rather than thumping it. But again, in saying all that, Im not hoping to convince you of anything, just as you should please realise that your comments may not any effect on me or anyone else!! If everyone in the world discussing the game *agreed*, how boring would that be Heck, the legions of journalists in and around football would be out of a job!! Its not a math problem, its football, with many many variables, they crux of which being the human variable, which *no one* can ever hope to predict!! agree to disagree, that is the key mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 c'mon, they have their lapses. And, its who they play against that shapes their skill set/bag o tricks. That's why they are Champions of Europe then? If English players(most of them playing in England), style is so untainted by the LB tendency, why *Have they appointed an Italian coach *Are they not in E2008 ?? Capello himself has said, he never can hope to move england away from its LB style! But wants to develop a 'mix' where they become comfortable keeping the ball, rather than thumping it. Do you actually read what I type? your going along with a national stereotype (which for many English/British players is correct) English playing style has everything to do with the shocking crapness of the coaching and the stupidity of most English people involved at any level in football - the national side won't be improving any time soon. That said the Premier League does have the largest set of 'strong' clubs in the continent currently; Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal. I fail to see how the England national team has any bearing on Man Utd's style of play? You may also want to consider the number of foreign players playing in the Premier League; current figures there are more foreign players than 'home grown'. Capello won't win anything with England for the simple fact England don't have players good enough to win a major tournament and that far too many England players have massive ego's which amuses me as they aren't half as good as they think they are. The nationality of the coach has nothing to do with tactics, and everything to do with their being np English coaches of sufficient calibre around; Steve Mclaren was in some people's opinion the 'best' English manager; which says it all. But again, in saying all that, Im not hoping to convince you of anything, just as you should please realise that your comments may not any effect on me or anyone else!! If everyone in the world discussing the game *agreed*, how boring would that be Heck, the legions of journalists in and around football would be out of a job!! Its not a math problem, its football, with many many variables, they crux of which being the human variable, which *no one* can ever hope to predict!! Your wrong about Man Utd playing long ball football... end of. agree to disagree, that is the key mtfbwya Agreeing to disagree is one thing, but if you tell me something is blue when I can see it is white, I'm going to argue an arm and a leg. Just as I know Man Utd don't play long ball football, you can continuing thinking such; I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, I don't like Utd, but your still wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 *Are they not in E2008 ?? 'Cos we beat 'em 3-2 And no, Man Utd don't play long ball football, otherwise, they wouldn't really have that much need for some of their better players... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Down Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Man, I can cry like a little girl! Why Holland, why?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabish Bini Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 ^probably because they were sad over Boulahrouz's prematurely born son's death, and Guus Hiddink's a better coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Do you actually read what I type? lolz. I do. I also find it amusing that you think you are categorically correct. MU may not play your ugly thump n run, but is far from the beautiful game. Nothing played in the United Kingdom is anywhere near beautiful. You seem vehement they dont play LB, sure. Not old school 70s LB. But what it is apart from a group of players and a clever manager applying some non UK tricks to a league still predominated by a LB mentatlity. Its inescapable. Geez, if it werent for the pulling power of the British Pound, the UK would still be the world cesspit of football creativity. Teams, like your beloved ManU, have only started to play a new brand of football due to the influx of skillfull players from outside of England. As you said, there is something *seriously* wrong with that nations mentality at a fundamental and core level. Doshing out for an Italian coach isnt going to fix the problem overnight. But who cares really, none of us are getting paid to implement our learned theories, why bicker like mugs at a pub mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan7 Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 lolz. I do. I also find it amusing that you think you are categorically correct. MU may not play your ugly thump n run, but is far from the beautiful game. Nothing played in the United Kingdom is anywhere near beautiful. You seem vehement they dont play LB, sure. Not old school 70s LB. But what it is apart from a group of players and a clever manager applying some non UK tricks to a league still predominated by a LB mentatlity. Its inescapable. Geez, if it werent for the pulling power of the British Pound, the UK would still be the world cesspit of football creativity. Teams, like your beloved ManU, have only started to play a new brand of football due to the influx of skillfull players from outside of England. As you said, there is something *seriously* wrong with that nations mentality at a fundamental and core level. Nothing in the UK is anywhere near beautiful? Amusing that, given that many experts hold Arsenal to be the best team club to watch currently in Europe and perhaps the World. Personally I think it's a bit too pretentious, and a little too much style not enough substance. That said it's easily the most easy on the eye football played by any team in Europe this season. You clearly don't watch the Premier League much and take a look at United's Current team, they don't have a single centre foward of the type needed to play long ball. Having watched them over the past 20 years, Ferguson isn't a long ball manager - he originally played 4-4-2 with 2 holding players and 2 wingers, and has gradually changed his style. And if United's style of play is so poor why are they Champions of Europe. Also a long ball team (Chelsea) also got to the Champions League Final, not sure what that says for Europe's finest? Doshing out for an Italian coach isnt going to fix the problem overnight. The fact you say that is clear proof your not reading my posts... Given that I don't think England will ever win anything. But who cares really, none of us are getting paid to implement our learned theories, why bicker like mugs at a pub To assume, makes an ass out of u and me. An incorrect assumption on your part, as it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 OK, boys, time to quit the flame-baiting/name-calling/insinuations (hint, that means both The Doctor and Astro) and stick to soccer, because I really don't want to give either of you infractions. If I see any of that behavior continue, however, I will. I haven't read this thread because soccer just isn't my thing, but it has now achieved Momerator Attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Auch, Jae Holland deserved to loose. When you start to belief in your own status, you will only fall harder. Russia fought brilliant, because with reaching the quarter finals, their goals was already reached. So they played freely, and went for it. And Holland...although they are professionals, the death of Bouhlarouz' child must have gotten the best of them. Look at this: - You walk on the pitch with a child in front of you, the mascottes. - Childs everywhere. - Most of the Dutch have children as well. Most of them are young parents as well, with really litle todlers cheering for them at home. -That black band that's around your arm all match long. If you sum it up, it's quit... But still, kudo's to Russia. They were faster. stronger. better. whatever the circumstances where. Although they form a strong excuse. I'll cheer for Russia from now on. Italia doesn't deserve it, Spain is my nr. 2, (but I dislike arrogant players like Torres). Germany has won far too many times and I believe Turkey plays one of the worst systems of the tournament. Far to defensive and...bah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 ...An incorrect assumption on your part, as it happens. Assumptions? These type of threads are like 'religion threads without the religion', ie. people flapping their arms about thinking they are right and others are wrong. Here are some basic rights and responsibilities we have when expressing our opinion in a public forum: *We should not harrass others that our view is correct, and the other persons is not *We can ever hope to change another persons outlook *By attacking another persons outlook, we should not want our view to be be transferred to that other person Like I have said, its not a math problem with a finite answer. Just learn to live with others opinions, even if it disrupts your ordered sense of the world! Now, you've mentioned your 'credentials' twice now. My credentials go no further than being a (non professional) player and being a spectator, which is as far as many our credentials here would go, I dare say Just out of curiousity. what are your credentials? By all means tell us , Im quite intrigued As for the ManU LB saga It seems Im in good company when I muse that MU havent entirely been able to shake of their LB mantle... now jonathan, whether you decide to reveal your credentials to us or not, I dont mind being wrong along with the fabulous Mr Cruyff I'd say he knows a little bit about football !! Im not saying any more on the subject than "I agree with Mr Cruyff!" @Jae, I thoroughly support any beat downs you hand anyone in this thread who gets out of line(including myself of course). Being a soccer thread, handing out a red or yellow card would be entirely fitting!! as I said, agree to disagree is the key. ...30 mins to go to Italy v Spain, may the team that works the hardest win! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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