US Presidential debates

[Rev7]

As I keep saying, simply being in the military isn't enough to lead a war. Yes, he may have some expert knowledge about the military - but War doesn't just involve the military.

 

There's the politicians, the economic side of things, the diplomatic side, and the general public to consider as well with war.

I don't think that you quite understand the question. Who would use the military better.

 

There are more sides to war, on the homefront mostly, but war is war on the frontlines.

[Yar-El]

As i've said in another thread, we don't know how effective a President either of them will be until they are actually in the Oval Office.

You have a point there. We have hired some with and without military experience, and everything has turned out alright. However, we are in a different world. Military tactics and strategies are important more now than ever. We need someone who can use diplomacy and war when necessary. Negotiating with the enemy without preconditions is a waste of time. McCain understands that all too well.

 

I don't think that you quite understand the question. Who would use the military better.

There are more sides to war, on the homefront mostly, but war is war on the frontlines.

McCain's experiences in war will make him flexible. Being in a war that was considered unpopular gives McCain a unique perspective. He will be sympathetic to the men and women on the ground, and McCain will know how to use tact for a responsible resolve.

[Astor]

I don't think that you quite understand the question. Who would use the military better.

 

There are more sides to war, on the homefront mostly, but war is war on the frontlines.

 

Oh no, I understood it perfectly.

 

My point still stands - the candidate's experiences (or lack of) of the military doesn't mean they know how to use it better.

 

The question should really be do either of them have the wisdom to use it better?

[Jae Onasi]

McCain had training at the Naval Academy in Annapolis and was a commissioned officer from 1958 to 1981 when he retired. He was a fighter pilot for a number of years. He attended the National War college and commanded a squadron in addition to serving as the Navy's liaison to the Senate. As squadron Commander he improved safety and readiness to the point where the squadron got a meritorious unit commendation. If he had not made improvements I could see where his ability to use the military might be in question, but that's not the case. There's no question that McCain understands the military's ins and outs far better than Obama ever will, since Obama has not served in the military. I am not saying Obama can't learn, but he cannot match 23 years of military experience.

[Inyri]

So since my Uncle was an officer in the navy does that mean he can be president too?

[Litofsky]

So since my Uncle was an officer in the navy does that mean he can be president too?

 

Does he meet the requirements set forth by the Constitution?

 

Seriously, I realize that while McCain was tied to the military for a significant portion of his life, that does not, in of itself, make him fit to lead a nation. As Jae said, McCain may understand the military better than Obama, but that doesn't mean that McCain is any more fit to lead the nation than Obama. It just means that one was in the military, and one wasn't.

[Inyri]

Yes he does. My point is I don't see how it's really all that relevant. Being in the military certainly gives you an insight, but unless you're something equivalent to a 4-star General you don't have the experience to claim you know everything about how the military works on the large scale.

 

Sure, he was a Captain. That doesn't make him any more qualified to be president than Obama. Or my uncle.

[Litofsky]

Yes he does. My point is I don't see how it's really all that relevant. Being in the military certainly gives you an insight, but unless you're something equivalent to a 4-star General you don't have the experience to claim you know everything about how the military works on the large scale.

 

Sure, he was a Captain. That doesn't make him any more qualified to be president than Obama. Or my uncle.

 

Which is what I said.

[Astor]

Sure, he was a Captain. That doesn't make him any more qualified to be president than Obama. Or my uncle.

 

That's exactly what i've been trying to get at. Sure, he commanded a squadron. But that Squadron is just one aspect of a Military comprised of three different elements (Army, Navy and Air Force).

 

Which still isn't enough for anyone to effectively gauge who would be the better option.

[Jae Onasi]

So since my Uncle was an officer in the navy does that mean he can be president too?

 

The question was who could use the military best, Obama or McCain, and experience in the military is going to give McCain a substantial advantage in that particular department. I can't speak to your uncle's military experience and how it would affect his ability to serve as President, and it's irrelevant to the conversation anyway.

 

Arcesious and Astor--the topic is the debate, not Islam--please discuss Islam in the appropriate thread(s). Thanks.

[Arcesious]

The Palin - Biden debate should prove to be even more interesting than the Mccain - Obama one was...

[Achilles]

I'm sorry, if Palin is getting her butt consistently handed to her in softball interviews, she's going to get eaten alive by Biden.

[Yar-El]

I'm sorry, if Palin is getting her butt consistently handed to her in softball interviews, she's going to get eaten alive by Biden.

After last night's debate between McCain and Barrack, I think everyone will be stepping up the defences. I don't call Palin out yet. It doesn't look good, but I wouldn't count her out.

[Darth333]

The Palin - Biden debate should prove to be even more interesting than the Mccain - Obama one was...

Judging from Palin's interview by Katie Couric it should prove at least entertaining...

 

I can't believe there is a possibility this person could one day have access to the Nuclear Football..."oh...what does this button do?"

 

 

* D3 goes back to watching the Canadian political circus*

[Litofsky]

I'm sorry, if Palin is getting her butt consistently handed to her in softball interviews, she's going to get eaten alive by Biden.

I hope she does. I mean no disrespect to Palin (well, maybe a little), but unless you can handle the 'baptism by fire,' I'm not sure you've got the guts to lead the country.

[Astor]

I'm sorry, if Palin is getting her butt consistently handed to her in softball interviews, she's going to get eaten alive by Biden.

 

In every interview i've seen, she's avoided all the questions, with vague answers or answers that don't make sense - being able to see the Russian Coast is apparently important when considering the Georgia Situation, after all.

 

And that interview she did the other day was just as bad. I've never seen Biden in an interview, but if he can at least answer questions in a clear way, then Palin's sunk.

[mimartin]

Did we see the same debate? Iraq was no doubt in the forefront. You can't leave out Iraq when talking about foriegn policy.[/Quote] When you are running for President under your party’s banner and the incumbent President stated a unpopular war, you do not bring it up every 5 seconds if you want to win the election. McCain still seems to be under the impression that the American people believe the Iraq War was a good idea.

Iraq and Afghanistan are now one war.[/Quote] I disagree, the war in Afghanistan is a war fighting those that attacked us on 9/11/2001. The war in Iraq is our own creation. It started as a giant Easter egg hunt where there were no hidden eggs and has turned into a quagmire. Who really believes when we pull the surge back the Shia and Sunni people are going to suddenly start acting like long lost brothers? Probably only the same people that thought the Iraqi people would welcome us like liberators instead of invaders.

Obama originally said at press confrences that the surge wouldn't work. McCain was just pointing out Obama's sudden change in support.[/Quote] Yes Obama did, but at the debate Obama also stated the surge worked. Yet, McCain said he had not admitted that even though everyone that watched the debate knows Obama did (with the expectation of those wearing the ever popular Republican rose color glasses).

Last night was a reminder of how much more experience McCain has. [/Quote] As my 73 mother pointed out to me the debate did point out John McCain’s experience. It also pointed out to her his age. With the inexperience of his running mate, McCain’s age worries her. Since John McCain is only one year my Mother’s junior she has a real issue with his age considering his running mate. So yes, I believe experience will be a factor, but I believe how that translates into votes depends of the voters perspective. If John McCain would have picked a running mate with experience he could have locked up the experience issue, yet he did not.

 

So my original point stands, is McCain trying to lose the election? He has the experience and expertise (not counting his apparent lack of knowledge on the difference being the different Muslims) in foreign affairs, yet he continually reminds the American people of his support of an unpopular war. He has the experience to be commander and chief, yet he picks a running mate with very little experience.

[Litofsky]

So my original point stands, is McCain trying to lose the election? He has the experience and expertise (not counting his apparent lack of knowledge on the difference being the different Muslims) in foreign affairs, yet he continually reminds the American people of his support of an unpopular war. He has the experience to be commander and chief, yet he picks a running mate with very little experience.

 

While it may appear that way, I believe that McCain seriously believed that choosing Palin would help him. Perhaps he thought that she would siphon off angry Hillary voters? By any standard that's an unsure, unstable path. I guess we'll see the extent of McCain's choice at the upcoming debate.

 

Again, I think McCain took an unwarranted risk, and we'll see what it'll cost him.

[Achilles]

McCain still seems to be under the impression that the American people believe the Iraq War was a good idea.

Meh. I understand what he's doing, but I don't agree with it.

 

I'm probably reading more into this than what should be considered "normal", but I think it's important to focus on the underlying narrative of each candidate's position. McCain's narrative is that American's aren't quitters (and if you vote for the other guy, then you're saying that we are. See: false dichotomy). Republicans are very good at tapping into these messages (see: yellow ribbons, American flag pins, jingoism, etc).

 

So does McCain know deep down in his heart that the war is unpopular. I'd like to think that he's smart enough that the answer would be yes. So why continue to bring it up? Because (if you notice) when he talks about the war, he doesn't talk about the war: he advertises the narrative (not accepting defeat, defending democracy, etc). Next time you see McCain confronted about Iraq, watch how quickly he runs and hides behind his talking points (and refuses to come out). One of those fun little things that once you notice it, it's pretty obvious.

[Yar-El]

McCain still seems to be under the impression that the American people believe the Iraq War was a good idea.

Watch the polls. Aproximately 50% do agree with the Iraq war. I may not agree with the original intell, but I absolutely agree that it was the right thing to do.

 

Why are people ignoring the polls? McCain and Barrack are only seperated by the margin of error. Estimated 50% for McCain and 50% for Barrack.

[Jae Onasi]

While it may appear that way, I believe that McCain seriously believed that choosing Palin would help him. Perhaps he thought that she would siphon off angry Hillary voters? By any standard that's an unsure, unstable path. I guess we'll see the extent of McCain's choice at the upcoming debate.

 

Again, I think McCain took an unwarranted risk, and we'll see what it'll cost him.

 

I think he picked her for several reasons.

a. Female, when the Dems rejected Clinton as even VP.

b. From an oil state

c. Conservative to appeal to that side of the party.

d. She's not Romney, who McCain clearly could not stand.

e. She apparently doesn't have serious skeletons in her closet.

f. She can speak in front of crowds articulately. TV is a very different matter, obviously--she clearly has a difficult time with that.

 

Seeing what she's done on TV lately, I think Biden is going to win the debate, unless she really pulls herself together and Biden says something really stupid.

[Achilles]

a. Female, when the Dems rejected Clinton as even VP.

"The Dems" didn't reject her. Obama did.

e. She apparently doesn't have serious skeletons in her closet.

Trooper-gate?

f. She can speak in front of crowds articulately. TV is a very different matter, obviously--she clearly has a difficult time with that.

No teleprompter in interviews

[Q]

I think he picked her for several reasons.

a. Female, when the Dems rejected Clinton as even VP.

b. From an oil state

c. Conservative to appeal to that side of the party.

d. She's not Romney, who McCain clearly could not stand.

e. She apparently doesn't have serious skeletons in her closet.

f. She can speak in front of crowds articulately. TV is a very different matter, obviously--she clearly has a difficult time with that.

g. MILF.

Fixed.

 

And, yes, it is relevant to this discussion as it was most likely a factor in his choosing her.

[Tyrion]

I think he picked her for several reasons.

a. Female, when the Dems rejected Clinton as even VP.

b. From an oil state

c. Conservative to appeal to that side of the party.

d. She's not Romney, who McCain clearly could not stand.

e. She apparently doesn't have serious skeletons in her closet.

f. She can speak in front of crowds articulately. TV is a very different matter, obviously--she clearly has a difficult time with that.

g. Milf.

h. Milf.

i. Milf.

j. Milf.

k. Milf.

l. Milf.

m. Milf.

n. Milf.

o. Milf.

p. Milf.

q. Milf.

r. Milf.

s. Milf.

t. Milf.

u. Milf.

v. Milf.

w. Milf.

x Milf.

y. Foreign experience with numerous exotic lands, in particular Idaho.

z. Milf.

 

Fixed for emphasis.

[mimartin]

Watch the polls. Aproximately 50% do agree with the Iraq war. I may not agree with the original intell, but I absolutely agree that it was the right thing to do.

 

Why are people ignoring the polls? McCain and Barrack are only seperated by the margin of error. Estimated 50% for McCain and 50% for Barrack.

Why are people ignoring the polls?

 

According to the latest poll number taken by CBS/New York Time 09/21/2008 – 09/24/2008 when asked: "Looking back, do you think the United States did the right thing in taking military action against Iraq, or should the U.S. have stayed out?"

 

39% said it was the “Right Thing”

 

55% said we should of “Stayed Out.”

 

6% said they were “Unsure.”

 

Call me old fashion, but when I was in school 21 years of my life, 55 was a bigger number than 39. Thing may have change, but I’d still rather have 55 dollars than 39 dollars.

 

As to the Presidential polls, I see a relative unknown African-American, first term Senator with 50% of the vote while John McCain, an American hero and senior Senator, with only 44% of the vote. 6 points is beyond the margin of error and a huge lead in a country so divided. I also see that the poll number have widen since the debate. Again, IMO these numbers have nothing to do with McCain and everything to do with President Bush and the fact he is a Republican. It is an economic issue. It is still an eternity of time in a campaign, but unless McCain distances himself from the current administration, I do not see him winning. Bush’s job rating was 66% disapproval as of 09/23/2008.

 

...and Biden says something really stupid.

This, if Biden’s past history is any indication, is highly probable, of course Palin saying something stupid will not shock me either.