Razgriz1928 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Well, there's an explanation for that in-game. The fact that she is a manipulative witch don't change much of my opinion about her. I mean, Kreia is no different on that sense and we don't see many people openly hating her. She's basically a more attractive Kreia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGH ON PIE 14 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Very well put, JIGOS. Indeed. I didn't mean to say Atris thought "Sweet, sith relics! Let me bask in their dark power! Muuaahahaha!" It was probably a gradual change as you suggested. People like Kreia better because she is more subtle about it. Okay, it was obvious that she was a baddy from the start, but she was not as whiny or bossy as Atris. Also, Kreia did what ever was best for herself, and was willing to change her opinion or actions if the need arose. Atris stubbornly stuck to a flawed set of beliefs that reduced her to a whining schutta. Kreia had the subtle power of manipulation over evryone. All Atris did was order around her Handmaidens, who would obey her without manipulation. Just my two cents. ~HOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnseyy Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Indeed. I didn't mean to say Atris thought "Sweet, sith relics! Let me bask in their dark power! Muuaahahaha!" ~HOP Funniest mental image, ever. Anyway, yeah. I didn't vote the 'i hate her so much I'd cut her to bits', because really - she's not that unlikeable (if thats a word?) her character definitely adds depth to the story line, and everyone loves a good 'fall to the dark side' story. The fact that the writers made everyone dislike her is really good, because that was their point. If people like her, then that's for their own reasons... but I'm preeeetty sure the majority don't. Besides, I was sort of relieved to get to her place on Telos, after all of that fighting, where Bao, Atton or Kreia couldn't stay alive for more than two minutes. A nice little chat over a cup of tea. Ahh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Funniest mental image, ever. Anyway, yeah. I didn't vote the 'i hate her so much I'd cut her to bits', because really - she's not that unlikeable (if thats a word?) her character definitely adds depth to the story line, and everyone loves a good 'fall to the dark side' story. The fact that the writers made everyone dislike her is really good, because that was their point. If people like her, then that's for their own reasons... but I'm preeeetty sure the majority don't. Besides, I was sort of relieved to get to her place on Telos, after all of that fighting, where Bao, Atton or Kreia couldn't stay alive for more than two minutes. A nice little chat over a cup of tea. Ahh. Alright, I'm not thinking about you the same way again. I cannot sympathize with someone who's beliefs are so weak, yet behaves so hypocritically. I despise Atris because she is so convinced of her own superiority that she is dangerous. My aunt is just like Atris... even worse since suffering a head injury. If Atris were truly mad, then she would be the greatest sith EVER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattig89ch Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Its been so long since I voted I can't remember what I put. It was either meh, or I hate her. I do think that se was trying to do good, but her feelings got in the way. Remember what kreia said, that she loved you as anyone would love a hero. You hurt her, and brought back feelings best left alone (I think those were her words). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 but she was not as whiny or bossy as Atris. Kreia is less bossy than Atris? I must have missed something, because I don't recall Atris ever trying to make the entire crew of the Ebon Hawk into her personal βitcΠ. Atris doesn't do as much of anything as Kreia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyuuKage Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Atris is a stuck-up moron. period. Just hearing her name makes me think of her idiotic attitude during your long talk with her on Telos, regardless of whether you're LS or DS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW01 Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I think Atris is something of a pitiable character in TSL. There are references to the fact that she possibly regretted her inaction or envied the Exile's decisiveness. I think she would have been a very interesting party member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastila Sham Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 meh. Couldnt care less about this character Last time I played this game was over three years ago, and I have no recollection of the character. How's that for impressions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endorenna Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 You don't remember Atris!?!?!? Lucky...I don't think I'll ever forget that witch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I think Atris is something of a pitiable character in TSL. There are references to the fact that she possibly regretted her inaction or envied the Exile's decisiveness. I think she would have been a very interesting party member. Uh... are you sure you know who you're talking about? This is a character that betrayed the jedi at Katarr. She is the one who turned on the Exile both before the Mandalorian wars and after she returned. She was a sith down to her core. Intentions are worthless without deeds to back them. If Atris knew what she did was wrong, then it was worse than simply being ignorant of your actions. She was the worst villain ever created in the SW Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 Its been so long since I voted I can't remember what I put. It was either meh, or I hate her. just look at the poll results. the italicized one is the option you chose i reckon atris was kreia junior somewhat. some of those holocrons were kreia's teachings and there are many parallels between them. i dont think kreia was always the witch she was in the game. i'd actually really like to see her young, and see how she fell. or whatever she did. (see if atton's 'good-looking-female radar' was correct ) (kreia would be like, "'fall?' so relative...blah blah" *manipulate* "Fool!") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feagildin Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 I think Atris really just needed some loving. One night with the exile would've set her straight. As for the concept art, I think she was originally supposed to be the exile. Female canon after all. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. On topic, I liked Atris as a character. She needed a serious attitude adjustment, but I did pity her. She seemed like yet another victim of the poor decisions of the council. Going to war is not going against the LS. If the council had acted on behalf of the people of the galaxy, and had been self-sacrificial instead of self-preservatory, things most likely would have been very different. Atris may never have fallen, being free to follow the Revan, Malak, and the exile freely, without the emotional conflict of "betraying" the council, the Jedi, and her own moral code. Revan and Malak may never have "fallen", with all the masters there to counsel and strengthen the younger, more emotionally susceptible Jedi. In other words, Atris was simply already cut to ribbons internally by the strain of being pulled in two very different directions by two different attachment with what were, to her, very real, very justified reasons. Some may look at that as simple weakness, and maybe it is. But Atris is human, and humans are social beings, we all sometimes need companionship. Atris didn't feel as though she had that. She couldn't go to the council with her feelings, because she couldn't accept her own feelings. She couldn't follow the exile, because she couldn't bring herself to defy the council. In the end, feeling friendless and alone, she embraced the dark side, and it answered her call for companionship. The dark side became her "friend", her confident, her solace. The holocrons she gathered became her council, and she, still unwilling to admit she had abandoned all she knew to be right, masked her alignment with rationalizations of good intent. In the end, she fell, and Kreia's words embodied Atris' position best: "It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it." I voted for "She was cool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan Posted October 14, 2008 Author Share Posted October 14, 2008 good insight, Feagildin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGH ON PIE 14 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Kreia is less bossy than Atris? I must have missed something, because I don't recall Atris ever trying to make the entire crew of the Ebon Hawk into her personal βitcΠ. Atris doesn't do as much of anything as Kreia. No. Kreia is manipulative, not bossy, there is a difference. Kreia uses blackmail and force techniques on the crew to get her way. While I don't like her manipulating thte crew, I admire her skill with it, especially since it generally produced the results she wanted. Atris on the other hand was just a pathetic excuse for a jedi holed up in her ice acadamy "meditating with her holorons." When she speaks to exile she has an "I'm right your wrong you arrogant jerk" attitude. Kreia also tried to bring the exile over to her opinion but she does so through manipulation and persuasion rather than Atris' approach which is that she is right about everything and can never be wrong. @Feagildin: You have a good insight there. ~HOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Vader Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I think Atris really just needed some loving. One night with the exile would've set her straight. As for the concept art, I think she was originally supposed to be the exile. Female canon after all. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking. On topic, I liked Atris as a character. She needed a serious attitude adjustment, but I did pity her. She seemed like yet another victim of the poor decisions of the council. Going to war is not going against the LS. If the council had acted on behalf of the people of the galaxy, and had been self-sacrificial instead of self-preservatory, things most likely would have been very different. Atris may never have fallen, being free to follow the Revan, Malak, and the exile freely, without the emotional conflict of "betraying" the council, the Jedi, and her own moral code. Revan and Malak may never have "fallen", with all the masters there to counsel and strengthen the younger, more emotionally susceptible Jedi. In other words, Atris was simply already cut to ribbons internally by the strain of being pulled in two very different directions by two different attachment with what were, to her, very real, very justified reasons. Some may look at that as simple weakness, and maybe it is. But Atris is human, and humans are social beings, we all sometimes need companionship. Atris didn't feel as though she had that. She couldn't go to the council with her feelings, because she couldn't accept her own feelings. She couldn't follow the exile, because she couldn't bring herself to defy the council. In the end, feeling friendless and alone, she embraced the dark side, and it answered her call for companionship. The dark side became her "friend", her confident, her solace. The holocrons she gathered became her council, and she, still unwilling to admit she had abandoned all she knew to be right, masked her alignment with rationalizations of good intent. In the end, she fell, and Kreia's words embodied Atris' position best: "It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it." I voted for "She was cool." Agreed. I voted for "I love her to bits" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No. Kreia is manipulative, not bossy, there is a difference. Kreia uses blackmail and force techniques on the crew to get her way. While I don't like her manipulating thte crew, I admire her skill with it, especially since it generally produced the results she wanted. Those "do whatever I want you to or else, bitch" speeches Kreia gives to Atton and Mandalore don't sound bossy at all to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 No. Kreia is manipulative, not bossy, there is a difference. Kreia uses blackmail and force techniques on the crew to get her way. While I don't like her manipulating thte crew, I admire her skill with it, especially since it generally produced the results she wanted. Sure there is a difference between bossy and manipulative. And she's actually both. She plays the role of a teacher, and a grumpy one for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Yuthura Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think Atris became so blind with power when she was on the Council that she assumed it meant she was perfect and always right. Part of her anger for the Exile was that she wanted to feel superior to her and when she showed time and again that she was the stronger one. Wouldn't it make sense that Atris hated the Exile because she was always going to be stronger, despite all that Atris had going for her. Why do you think Atris was too afraid to fight the Exile the first time on Telos? No matter what you did to provoke Atris, she kept giving empty threats of which she never delivered. In truth, Atris was just a power-hungary tyrant who knew she would never become the greatest jedi, so she moved to have everyone else killed so she was the only one left standing. That's why she betrayed the jedi on Katarr, but never went herself. I hate arrogant, self absorbed, power mongers and that's exactly what Atris was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think Atris became so blind with power when she was on the Council that she assumed it meant she was perfect and always right. Part of her anger for the Exile was that she wanted [to feel superior to her and when she showed time and again that she was the stronger one. Wouldn't it make sense that Atris hated the Exile because she was always going to be stronger, despite all that Atris had going for her. Why do you think Atris was too afraid to fight the Exile the first time on Telos? No matter what you did to provoke Atris, she kept giving empty threats of which she never delivered. In truth, Atris was just a power-hungary [sic] tyrant who knew she would never become the greatest jedi, so she moved to have everyone else killed so she was the only one left standing. That's why she betrayed the jedi on Katarr, but never went herself. I hate arrogant, self absorbed, power mongers and that's exactly what Atris was. I thoroughly inspected every sentence in that post and could find at least two things wrong with every single one of them, but I wanted to save time, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGH ON PIE 14 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Those "do whatever I want you to or else, bitch" speeches Kreia gives to Atton and Mandalore don't sound bossy at all to you? No, the one with Atton sounded like manipulative blackmail to me. Kreia used his past jedi killing against him. That is not the same thing as bossy. Kreia wants to bend others to her will, but is not going to sit there and whine about how she is the only great one. Does Kreia like everyone? No. But she is smart enough to realize that everybody has a use. I'm not saying she does not want to have her way all the time...everybody wants there way. I'm, saying that she handled it more like someone who has sense, not some bratty 3-year old. With Mandelore, she basically just told him that the age of the mandelorians was over and that she wanted him to protect the exile. Kreia, believes that if you don't agree with her, than you are wrong, but doesn't everyone? You think DY and I are wrong because we don't agree with you and vice versa. All I'm saying is that I don't hate Kreia, because the way she goes about manipulating takes skill, not just spouting self righteousness and trashing the exile like Atris. The point is Kreia can deliver on her threats, while Atris is full of nothing but hot air. So you don't think Atris is arrogant or self absorbed? Hmmm... ~HOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 So you don't think Atris is arrogant or self absorbed? I never said that. Furthermore, I apologize if I implied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HIGH ON PIE 14 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Oh, well you said you found numerous things wrong with DY's post and arrogant and self absorbed were highlighted in yellow, so I assumed that was one of the things you disagreed with. Okay then, well, that will teach me not to assume, won't it? ~HOP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKA-001 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I see. To avoid further confusion, I've removed the highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 IMO kreia didnt need to be bossy. you'd talk to her and find out that she's already made you do what she wanted you to do without ever talking to you. *shudder* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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