How Will This Game Work?

[Shem]

I once said at Holowan Labs that I hope TOR crashes and burns because I really don’t like the idea of this game being an MMO. First off, the idea of paying a monthly fee to play this game *after* purchasing it makes me face red with anger.

 

Now, for the time being I’m going to look beside that as I’m going to be asking you to help me to comprehend how a MMO game would work in this setting because I lack the experience. Basically I’m an MMO virgin if you must know. So naturally I’m going to not understand a few things because of the missing experience. KOTOR was the first role playing game I had ever played and the first time I played it, it showed if you had watched me play it, but I really didn’t have any concerns playing it like I do now.

 

Here is the thing. I want this to be peaceful discussion. We must all act like mature adults. This isn’t to get me exited to try this game out. This is to see if it’s a game I would enjoy.

 

To be fair, I have been reading up on the game over the weekend, especially on the official site at LucasArts to see if they could answer some of my questions and it really hasn’t to the degree I would have liked it to as when it did answer a question, it raised another question I wanted an answer to on top of it and couldn’t get it. So this is my last resort to help me make a fair judgment. Some queries could sound very, very, very newbish, but anyway…

 

Let’s say I get the game, install it on my computer and open it up. Do you like try to join a team to get started? Well, from what I read at LucasArts, there was a FAQ and the answer to that was you could finish most of the game without companion help, but you will need it at some points. What I want cleared up is if it meant party members or actually people online playing too.

 

There was something brought up in the video that if you make a choice, you can’t go back and do another one to see how it would have played out differently. So that alone raises other questions. How live is this? Meaning it would sound like I can’t play the game at my own pace. What if I had to go to the bathroom and take a crap? Does that mean I have to hold it until the end of the game? What if I need to stop? Can I? If I can stop the game at any point with a save, then that would mean I could reload and start from the save point, but if I can’t repeat anything, what if I die? Do I have to start a new game? So much for a personal saga when you’re 10 hours in and everything is going great and then an enemy kills you and since you can’t repeat, you have to start over. Am I the only one who wonders this? Do I sound crazy or something?

 

I was told companions could betray you. If they do, and you die, do you start over? What if I get to the main boss, the Sith Emperor and die? I don’t get another chance to beat him until I play through the game again? What if that took me 30 hours to do? That would suck and all this when it was said in a video I can’t go back and try a different outcome.

 

Granted if I need another live player to work with, it would be with some people I know from Holowan, but here is the deal. We would have to play it at a time when we’re all available. If one leaves, do you stop there and lose progress and have to start over? Is the lack of experience starting to show yet?

 

It’s sounding to me that my personal saga online could end tragically several times before succeeding.

 

So if people are playing at once online, could someone kill the Sith Emperor and we all have to start over or something if many people are playing it live at once? I could be in the middle of hyperspace travel and all of a sudden a notice comes up and says the game is over with either some dark side person becoming the new emperor or the Republic has been restored.

 

How many people will name their character Revan that I run into? Maybe one of them would be called Revan4376 or something. As you can see I’m really having hard time understanding how this all mixes in to a point where it would be worth even trying.

 

For now I think this is enough to swallow for you all. Hopefully if you laugh at anything I have said, it wouldn’t be at me, but how I worded it. It’s time to educate me so I can graduate from my newb status on MMO’s. Hopefully people can understand where my concerns come from and point me in the right direction.

[adamqd]

A lot of your concerns are mine too, but I have MMO experience, so I can guess how certain aspects will play out, But they are mainly just the parts involving other people. From the look of the UI the NPC interaction and Biowares claims of a soloable story, It's already quite different to other MMO's (A fact which they have played on since the start) in fact it looks like Mass effect in the Old Republic... and apart from talk I have seen no Multilayer footage that couldn't be just a console 2 player mode.

 

Regarding groups, Guilds etc, it's purely optional and based upon finding people you wanna play with or friends you already know, whether you need to group to do a quest or not, it's far from forced... as I wouldn't expect to Solo a Leviathan haha. You can organize to do quests within your playing time, you arent stuck to a schedule... you could go and visit another city or duel someone etc while your friends come online, and of course they could do the same while your offline, it wont be a continuous linear story... I'm sure you could just mess around and socialize for a week then continue where you left off on your quest lines

 

I'm still on the fence about going back and experiencing two versions of a story... In KotOR your basically loading a save game and getting 2 for the price of one, whereas an MMO is as you say "Live", there is no Pause button, and your actions effect your character, progression, and items, so your actions actually have consequences hehe. The only problem with no Pausing is when you hit a Dungeon or Instance with a group make sure you have your phone handy and you have been to the bathroom lol.

 

I think this game will be a completely new experience with aspects of many genres... So hopefully it will lose some of the floors of those genres too

 

It’s sounding to me that my personal saga online could end tragically several times before succeeding.

 

You will die, you will get your A88 handed to you by other players, you will fail to get items and have to repeat quests, that's the other aspect of the "No save game, No Pause Button" It's real time, so you cant just load up and still be undefeated. Failure teaches you the game, makes you a better player

[Keilara]

I don't think you'll have to worry about most of the things you've posted. From my MMO experience I think I can answer most of your questions.

 

Let’s say I get the game, install it on my computer and open it up. Do you like try to join a team to get started? Well, from what I read at LucasArts, there was a FAQ and the answer to that was you could finish most of the game without companion help, but you will need it at some points. What I want cleared up is if it meant party members or actually people online playing too.

 

I think you will be able to play alot of the game on your own. You start by creating your character I assume, and by entering the world with your character you connect to the server on which other people are playing. You can meet these people, talk to them, team up with them, but it isn't required for most of the game. Some missions or tasks will be hard or impossible to complete on your own though, so you will have to find help with your friends or strangers. About the companion help, this is a gameplay mechanic in SWTOR, it basically allows you to have one NPC 'party member', like the party members in the KOTOR games. You can likely choose one out of numerous options and be able to have them assisting you all the time, even when you're teaming up with other players.

 

There was something brought up in the video that if you make a choice, you can’t go back and do another one to see how it would have played out differently. So that alone raises other questions. How live is this? Meaning it would sound like I can’t play the game at my own pace. What if I had to go to the bathroom and take a crap? Does that mean I have to hold it until the end of the game? What if I need to stop? Can I? If I can stop the game at any point with a save, then that would mean I could reload and start from the save point, but if I can’t repeat anything, what if I die? Do I have to start a new game? So much for a personal saga when you’re 10 hours in and everything is going great and then an enemy kills you and since you can’t repeat, you have to start over. Am I the only one who wonders this? Do I sound crazy or something?

 

This basically means that if you make a choice in the game (let's say by dialogue to an NPC), you can't 'reload' to a save game before making that choice so you can choose another option which you would have preferred or to see how things would turn out with the other option. The only way of seeing how the other option would turn out is by creating another character. Of course you will be able to go to the bathroom while you're playing, most likely you will be able to decide yourself as to when you will engage the next group of enemies, so that you can go and take a crap in between if you want. The server saves your activities, statistics etc., so if you decide to log out for this, and you log back in, your character will be the same as when you last played it. Think of it as an autosave function which you can't turn off, and during logout/inactivity things in the world may change due to other players' influence, because the world/server is not dependent on your activity, and neither are other players.

If your character dies I assume it won't be game over, but rather there would be a death system in place. This is different with each MMO, some allow you to be 'reborn' at the latest checkpoint/graveyard/town/outpost, so that you are free to go back and try your last mission again. Sometimes this will have a penalty on your character, most of them aren't permanent (Think experience reduction, temporary stat or skills reduction, or a penalty to your gear durability).

 

I was told companions could betray you. If they do, and you die, do you start over? What if I get to the main boss, the Sith Emperor and die? I don’t get another chance to beat him until I play through the game again? What if that took me 30 hours to do? That would suck and all this when it was said in a video I can’t go back and try a different outcome.

 

Companions might betray you if you make choices that they don't agree with or don't approve. Again, if you die, it almost certainly won't be permanent. On a sidenote, I assume that it will take alot more than 30 hours to get to the last boss.

 

Granted if I need another live player to work with, it would be with some people I know from Holowan, but here is the deal. We would have to play it at a time when we’re all available. If one leaves, do you stop there and lose progress and have to start over? Is the lack of experience starting to show yet?

 

I'm almost certain you will be able to choose who you work with or group up with. Yes you would have to play at a time when you're all available, but if one would leave I think you will be able to invite a replacement for him/her, or continue without him/her.

 

I hope this cleared up some things for you about how MMO's work, if you still want some more info I'd recommend trying out an MMO for yourself, most of them have one or two weeks of free trial, in which you can play without paying, so that you can see how things work and to decide if you like the genre or not.

PS: Sorry for the lengthy post

[Miltiades]

MMO's are very much about tactics: you need to find the right moment to take a leak.

 

About needing other players or just party members during some parts of the game: That's not clear to me as well, though I would guess they mean online players. Playing solo may work in the beginning of the game, but as difficulty progresses, I think having party members with you will be vital if you want to survive. But perhaps, if you are the only player in your party, there won't be a timer that will force you to make a choice.

 

About not having the ability to save: MMO's have always been like that, everything about your character is stored directly to the servers. Dying in MMO's doesn't mean permanently dying. You can never really die, you are either revived or you return to a town or something similar. You won't see a "Game Over" screen. It can be frustrating, however, when you're doing a quest that takes an hour or so, you die without having the ability to revive, meaning you'll have to redo it.

 

About people leaving your party: if you join people you don't know for a quest, it can certainly be annoying when someone leaves without notifying everyone. Most of the time, if a player leaves, you will be able to continue what you are doing, but obviously, it'll be much harder from there on.

 

About killing the main boss: the story in an MMO is never finished, and it certainly won't restart. Everyone has his personal story, and everyone plays the overall story at his own pace. If you kill the main boss, only you and your party will be aware of that, but for another party, the main boss will still be there. You may get an honorable mention over the whole server for killing the boss, however.

 

About names: BioWare has stated they will put a filter on the names; which means no "Darth"'s, no "Revan"'s and other famous Star Wars names. There will always be people who use stupid names, though, for an MMO, that's inevitable.

[Hunted]

Let’s say I get the game, install it on my computer and open it up. Do you like try to join a team to get started? Well, from what I read at LucasArts, there was a FAQ and the answer to that was you could finish most of the game without companion help, but you will need it at some points. What I want cleared up is if it meant party members or actually people online playing too.

 

I'm going to start with the assumption that SWTOR will be like most other MMOs, having the most in common with World of Warcraft and Star Wars Galaxies. Obviously, there are certain details which may be different but the general idea will be the same.

 

MMOs are persistent worlds stored on a set of servers. When you turn on the game, you'll be prompted to log into your account and you'll choose which server to connect to. Typically, you'll always play on the same server, usually the same one your friends play on.

 

You can connect to the server any time and access your characters. Your friends do not have to be online when you are. The world is always there, but player characters (PCs) will come and go.

 

Most content is soloable, meaning you can do it by yourself. However, certain quests and locations throughout the game will be more challenging and will either require you to be much higher level or have a group of PCs to complete.

 

Now, SWTOR will be a bit different in that you will have companions. These are non-player characters (NPCs) who will assist you. I'd assume that even with companions you will still need to group with other players to complete some content.

 

There was something brought up in the video that if you make a choice, you can’t go back and do another one to see how it would have played out differently. So that alone raises other questions. How live is this? Meaning it would sound like I can’t play the game at my own pace. What if I had to go to the bathroom and take a crap? Does that mean I have to hold it until the end of the game? What if I need to stop? Can I? If I can stop the game at any point with a save, then that would mean I could reload and start from the save point, but if I can’t repeat anything, what if I die? Do I have to start a new game? So much for a personal saga when you’re 10 hours in and everything is going great and then an enemy kills you and since you can’t repeat, you have to start over. Am I the only one who wonders this? Do I sound crazy or something?

 

Unlike in single player RPGs, you cannot save your game in MMOs. Your character is constantly auto-saved to the server. You cannot quit and load your game to undo a mistake.

 

If you need to take a bathroom break, you probably should wait until your character is in a safe place or if you are with other players you can ask them to watch your back while you go.

 

You can stop playing any time you want. Your character will disappear from the world and when you come back they will reappear where they were when you left off. That means that if you're in a dungeon with a party and you leave they will continue on without you. When you come back, you'll still be in that dungeon, all alone, where they left you.

 

If you die, you'll likely be transported to some kind of graveyard or resurrection area where you will be assessed some kind of penalty (whether it is to item durability, exp, or simply time) and be allowed to continue on.

 

I was told companions could betray you. If they do, and you die, do you start over? What if I get to the main boss, the Sith Emperor and die? I don’t get another chance to beat him until I play through the game again? What if that took me 30 hours to do? That would suck and all this when it was said in a video I can’t go back and try a different outcome.

 

If companions betray you, you likely just lose them as a companion. Again, these are just NPCs. See above for explanation on what happens when you die.

 

Nobody will kill the Sith Emperor or likely any other big-name NPC. They will not be killable. The enemies that you can kill will respawn after a certain period of time so that the next group of players can kill them. If you die in the fight, you'll likely just have to start over on that particular quest. There are many, many quests in a character's career. Death just means you go back and try again later, it's not final by any means.

 

Granted if I need another live player to work with, it would be with some people I know from Holowan, but here is the deal. We would have to play it at a time when we’re all available. If one leaves, do you stop there and lose progress and have to start over? Is the lack of experience starting to show yet?

 

It’s sounding to me that my personal saga online could end tragically several times before succeeding.

 

You don't always have to play when your friends are on. Like I said, most of the content will be soloable. If you're in a group with friends and one leaves, you make the decision to push on or try again another day. It just depends on how difficult the challenge is.

 

So if people are playing at once online, could someone kill the Sith Emperor and we all have to start over or something if many people are playing it live at once? I could be in the middle of hyperspace travel and all of a sudden a notice comes up and says the game is over with either some dark side person becoming the new emperor or the Republic has been restored.

 

Again, important NPCs like the Sith Emperor will not be killable. Enemies that are killable will simply respawn after a given time period.

 

How many people will name their character Revan that I run into? Maybe one of them would be called Revan4376 or something. As you can see I’m really having hard time understanding how this all mixes in to a point where it would be worth even trying.

 

Hopefully the game will filter out names like Revan, Skywalker, Solo, Vader, etc. and hopefully numbers will not be allowed in names (unless you can play a droid).

[Shem]

Everything I hear so far about how this game possibly works is making me sick to my stomach. This whole thing is messed up. We should at least have an option to play it as a single player at our own pace, etc, etc. Again, unless something comes up that changes my mind, I hope this game will crash and burn.

[Trench]

That's rough Shem. I agree with you, but that's rough.

[Nedak]

I agree with Shem.

 

My personal expectations for this game has dropped.

[Da_Man_2423]

...I hope this game will crash and burn.

 

Same here. I would hate to see one of the best gaming developers succeed at creating an enjoyable experience.

[Master Shake]

300 years means you can do whatever you want.

 

I hope this game kills WoW, however I'm only really interested in finding out what happened to Revan and the Exile.

[WraithPrince]

Well if they do succeed they can fund a very good k3 if they ever think of doing it.

[Hunted]

If this fails (which I doubt it will) you will not see another KoToR game, guaranteed.

[GonkH8er]

Do you know WHY you pay each month?

 

Because the game isn't finished after you play for 20 hours...

 

It keeps going and going and going.

 

 

As for your other questions, no you won't die permanently. You'll probably respawn back in town, minus a bit of XP.

 

Yes, like any online game, you can't pause it. That's the nature of online games.

 

No the game wont end when someone kills the main boss. He will respawn and everyone will get a chance to kill him.

 

People can come and go online as they please. Bioware has even said you can pull people into your instanced events while they're underway.

 

If you want to do an event a different way, you'll probably have to use a different character. You'll end up having a few of them.

 

The game is broken up into quests. No one quest will take you 30 hours (i'm assuming).

 

If you do die mid quest and have to do it again, you should only lose 10 minute-2 hours of your time. Believe me, if you're at all serious about playing an MMO, this IS NOT a large amount of time.

 

 

You'll make plenty of friends in game from various time zones, and there will always be randoms you can party up with for quests.

 

 

Maybe you should go try another MMO for a couple of months just to see how they work.

[Astor]

While I may have reservations about the game (this will be my first MMO too), i'd much rather reserve judgement until after i've played it.

 

At first I wanted it to burn, but now i'm looking forward to seeing what'll come out of it, good or bad.

[Jan Gaarni]

Why We Pay to Play by Raph Koster, former lead designer of Ultima Online, and Creative Director of Star Wars Galaxies. He also worked on EverQuest II and 2 of its expansions.

 

It's abit of a read, but it gives you an idea why we pay monthly fees.

 

 

As for you Shem, you are looking at this game waaaaayyyy too linear.

This game will give you the freedom to do whatever you want.

 

Want to just hang around in a bar all day with friends, go go.

Want to kill some NPC's, go go.

Players? That's fun too. Not so fun when they kill you though.

 

Obviously there'll be some restrictions to what you can and can't do, but far from the restrictions you usually get in single-player games.

 

Just thought of a good single-player game you can compare this game to: GTA IV.

Go where you want, do what you want, quest when, where, and what you want.

 

Another is Oblivion, which is a single-player RPG, versus WoW, EQII, SWG, EVE, etc. with are MMO-RPGs.

 

Basically, the keyword for this game is, freedom.

[Nedak]

Kind of Off-Topic but.

 

Welcome back Jan?

[Prime]

Actually, I was very skeptical at first, but what I have seen has increased my interest greatly. It sounds like much of the game can be played SP style, which I prefer, and the idea of having a huge world to roam is very appealing. And if I can limit who else I play with that is good too. I just dread going to a city or bar where EVERYONE is a Jedi named Revan. So Shem I think there is hope yet, and maybe just you and me will play together.

[JediAthos]

Actually, I was very skeptical at first, but what I have seen has increased my interest greatly. It sounds like much of the game can be played SP style, which I prefer, and the idea of having a huge world to roam is very appealing. And if I can limit who else I play with that is good too. I just dread going to a city or bar where EVERYONE is a Jedi named Revan. So Shem I think there is hope yet, and maybe just you and me will play together.

 

Don't worry Prime naming conventions will likely prohibit the use of certain names from Star Wars, and I'll bet that'll be one of them.

 

In pretty much all MMO's it's your choice who you talk to. Don't want to talk to someone? Don't. Group with someone and find out they're a jerk? Report them, and ignore them in the future. You will also likely have a friends list of some sort so you can keep a running list of people you know, or people you've grouped with before who were good players.

 

The game world here is going to be huge spanning multiple planets with, according to Bioware, a great deal of solo content, and a different story arc, with different missions for each character class. Bioware is doing so many things that no other MMO does that you really can't compare it to the others that are out. In any MMO you can play at whatever pace you want...I played WoW for years without joining a hardcore guild or raiding seven days a week, and I still managed to get 2 1/2 characters to max level before I decided I wanted to give it up. I played by myself a great deal of time, and requested help from others when I needed to. I found that most players, even the ones I didn't know, were generally just there to play and enjoy themselves.

 

They've said it themselves, Bioware is not looking to create a WoW killer, and frankly I'm glad because all the other games that have tried to be such have failed miserably. Blizzard designed a fantastic game, around an epic franchise, and found a formula to keep people interested and keep them playing. Bioware is trying to do the same thing, but in their own way. To those that have no previous MMO experience...I would say give it a chance. You never know...you might just like it.

[Master Shake]

So Shem I think there is hope yet, and maybe just you and me will play together.

It doesn't hurt to hope.

[Trench]

If I end up playing it, I hope to be able to play with my fellow "TeamFett" and "Guild of Mand'alors" members.

They still need to make a K3.

[Lord of Hunger]

I am also hoping that this will be the death of WOW and other MMOs like it. From what a friend told me about it, too much freedom equals boredom and lack of story. Some story restricts the freedom but only to a certain degree and removes boredom. That's why I think TOR will prosper. Shem, I really recommend that if have the time you should try TOR when it comes out. I am inclinded to, but I am not sure if I will have the money or time.

 

As for K3, I still fail to understand how such a game would be desireable, but I can recommend that everyone wait for Revenge of Revan. Logan23 is doing a great job.

[JediAthos]

Given the amount of subscribers World of Warcraft has, their dedicated fan base, and their quality of content; WoW is NOT going anywhere anytime soon. What you should be hoping for is a game that enjoyable, interesting to play, and will live up to the intentions that Bioware has as they develop.

[Gurges-Ahter]

While I may have reservations about the game (this will be my first MMO too), i'd much rather reserve judgement until after i've played it.

 

At first I wanted it to burn, but now i'm looking forward to seeing what'll come out of it, good or bad.

 

I'm in this boat. It's also my first MMO, and I hated the idea that it wasn't another RPG like K1 and K2. MMO's have little appeal to me as they have a reputation for taking a lot of time (which I don't have) and lacking story (which is all I care about). Hopefully BioWare will take care of the latter concern, although there's not much that can be done about the former.

 

That being said I will try TOR hoping that the story is encapsulating enough to make up for the amount of time it takes and the monthly fee. That's what I'm reserving judgment for.

[Darth Avlectus]

I'm in this boat. It's also my first MMO, and I hated the idea that it wasn't another RPG like K1 and K2. MMO's have little appeal to me as they have a reputation for taking a lot of time (which I don't have) and lacking story (which is all I care about). Hopefully BioWare will take care of the latter concern, although there's not much that can be done about the former.

 

That being said I will try TOR hoping that the story is encapsulating enough to make up for the amount of time it takes and the monthly fee. That's what I'm reserving judgment for.

 

I cannot shake the idea that if this does not go over so well for the reason that people loathe the idea of a monthly fee, that this game may end up getting massive rennovations and wind up being ported to the next gen consoles--you provide the servers. Anything for a last ditch sale.

[WraithPrince]

I don't see how a monthly fee's a problem since the adverage game nowadays is $50 and your paying what $15 a month? your saving money for a game you'll play for more then a week.

 

An adverage playthrough of kotor was what mybe a week? maybe less if you had item mods. Well the adverage MMO you can play for one character for months (if you like that class) even if you play a class that your not to found about you will still play it for maybe a few weeks.

 

Your probably saving money not buying a whole new game every month.