Darth Sapiens Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Hey guys, I think I have something exciting here, it isn't bullet proof yet but I think I am hot on the tail of creating kotor tool maps, well, the kotor tool ".MAP" is actually a jpeg renamed to MAP, basically a shot from the top down of a module's floor (not that tricky to do), then, the info of interest, and hard-ish part is in the mapinfo.BFD this is what gives the module editor information like the offsets of the picture and I think the rotation. I'm a huge hex Noob, but even I can tell what the structure is, theoretically one can just append to the bfd an entry. BFD is a pretty popular GNU format I think, If I am correct this means it can be turned into an xml, something a little more familiar to people, and then turned back to the bfd. Here are some links to look up: http://collaboratory.emsl.pnl.gov/sam/bfd/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_File_Descriptor_library http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_Format_Description_language So, I am not a great programmer, but I think a tool could be made to easily edit an append new map values. What might this mean for modding? (If I am not mistaken) custom module mods can be made easier, no more manual coordinate finding and GIT editing to place things any more, we can make up the maps for Kotor tool that hadn't been made yet. this thread has a mirror-thread on Deadlystream. I'll post any updates I find here or there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canderis Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Does the map editor even work? I never really have tried to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sapiens Posted May 25, 2013 Author Share Posted May 25, 2013 I haven't used it much myself, definitely not for any serious projects yet, but this could be helpful for the scrapyard games and a few other module mods. I know a few modders have used it before (with the maps on the ktool site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Fett Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I think it's been pretty much universally accepted over the years that doing these things manually is the way to go. Gives you much more precision in placing things into your areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindikorr Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I don't know, I've used maps in my mod and you can place things very precisely with coordinates. Not to mention I still haven't got my head around kotors orientation system. I for one would like to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glovemaster Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 A method I used when I modded with areas involved decompiling all of the binary models for the module and importing them into 3dsmax, then use the module's room positioning data with the room base nodes to build the entire module, which gives you much more control at designing the module. If you wanted to take it a step further you could even import placeables and design the entire module like that, also by importing texture detail you can accurately and quickly do module reskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme kotor Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 ^So if I'm not misunderstanding you took the original model(s) into 3dsMax and reskined added places ect... Then ran it through Kaurora and used the model in game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Fett Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 No, he's saying he imported all the room models for an area into Max, used the layout co-ordinates in the game files to arrange them accordingly, then placed NPC's and placeables that way in the 3D scene itself. A good method, provided you've got the patience to build the modules in Max. Oh, and you've got to remember to convert the co-ordinates from centimetres to meters, which is what the game uses. Or is it tother way round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan23 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 A method I used when I modded with areas involved decompiling all of the binary models for the module and importing them into 3dsmax, then use the module's room positioning data with the room base nodes to build the entire module, which gives you much more control at designing the module. If you wanted to take it a step further you could even import placeables and design the entire module like that, also by importing texture detail you can accurately and quickly do module reskins Just wondering, how long does that take? Are you connecting all sections of the module- which is originally broken up when importing to 3dsmax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Fett Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Just wondering, how long does that take? Are you connecting all sections of the module- which is originally broken up when importing to 3dsmax The actual building of the module in Max can be pretty time consuming, but after that, it 's plain sailing. Makes things a lot quicker than starting and quitting the game every few minutes to test things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan23 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 The actual building of the module in Max can be pretty time consuming, but after that, it 's plain sailing. Makes things a lot quicker than starting and quitting the game every few minutes to test things. I would love to see a tutorial on - once you have the module sections connected - how this would be done and show how easy to jump in and out. Does this work with placeing triggers or just NPCs, PLCs, and skins? If connecting the modules sections into the one map- how do you know you did it right and didn't say- think you did place some npcs and then import= disaster? Is there an error message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glovemaster Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I would love to see a tutorial on - once you have the module sections connected - how this would be done and show how easy to jump in and out. Does this work with placeing triggers or just NPCs, PLCs, and skins? If connecting the modules sections into the one map- how do you know you did it right and didn't say- think you did place some npcs and then import= disaster? Is there an error message? No it's only really useful for getting coordinates from the scene, you still have to do everything manually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan23 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 No it's only really useful for getting coordinates from the scene, you still have to do everything manually Would it be easier to reskin the modules in this method? So if i want say a room in the western section of the module to have skins which i only want to show up in that room and not get repeated throughout the whole module- would this be a better way. Sorry for so many questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCarter426 Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 You could hex edit the models in order to have them use different textures. Importing everything into 3ds would make identifying the models a lot easier. Regarding making new maps... the map editor is great, and it's a shame so few modules are supported. I investigated this a while back, but I got just about as far; as far as I can tell, the BFD format is no longer supported by its creators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Fett Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Would it be easier to reskin the modules in this method? So if i want say a room in the western section of the module to have skins which i only want to show up in that room and not get repeated throughout the whole module- would this be a better way. Sorry for so many questions. Like JC said, you can just import the model part you want into Max and skin the area with a 'live preview' then Hex Edit the binary model afterwards. REALLY useful method of area skinning. Whenever I've redlined areas, this is the method I've used as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logan23 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 You could hex edit the models in order to have them use different textures. Importing everything into 3ds would make identifying the models a lot easier. Regarding making new maps... the map editor is great, and it's a shame so few modules are supported. I investigated this a while back, but I got just about as far; as far as I can tell, the BFD format is no longer supported by its creators. Like JC said, you can just import the model part you want into Max and skin the area with a 'live preview' then Hex Edit the binary model afterwards. REALLY useful method of area skinning. Whenever I've redlined areas, this is the method I've used as standard. Thanks for the tip! It is a lot easier to reskin and test before placing it in the actual game. One question I do have is the effectiveness of some of the skins, ex metal, - I like the new skin but when in game- I see that the reflective metal doesn't match. How would i resolve this? Do I need to get skin with or without the txt option with the skin export in kotortools? thanks in advance =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marius Fett Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 If you mean what I think you mean, then removing or dumbing down the CM_BareMetal should help. Just tweak the Alpha channel of the texture to increase the white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme kotor Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Well I looked into this quite a bit more and I'm going to have to say there's nothing we would gain from new maps. Now that you think I'm crazy allow me to explain. From what I understand the map maker CANNOT calculate for Z-Axis don't believe me look at the maps in KotorTool none of them have and Z differences. Sorry to be the one to shoot this down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbiemodder Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Don't stop! Please! I find using the module editor very helpful. Would be a huge benefit if could implement additional maps. As far as the Z-coord, not a big deal. U can get that from the whereami band as just input the data into the git file created by the module editor. Utc's will automatically bounce to the walkmesh without a proper z-coord. Keep going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sapiens Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Don't stop! Please! I find using the module editor very helpful. Would be a huge benefit if could implement additional maps. As far as the Z-coord, not a big deal. U can get that from the whereami band as just input the data into the git file created by the module editor. Utc's will automatically bounce to the walkmesh without a proper z-coord. Keep going! oh i plan to keep going the missing z coordinate in the editor, is probably stored in the bfd under the map's header, I think I know what one of those values are the arbitrary z coordinate possibly. my hypothesis: the editor has the ability to use/generate horizontal (xy) coordinates but inserts the arbitrary (constant) z coordinate along with them. and though we might not have the z coordinate automatically, what would be amazing is that we can now create our own flat-ish modules and use them in the module editor, bonus imho. now i'm sidetracked from my other mods *again* lol i'll see what my research comes up with on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fair Strides 2 Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 oh i plan to keep going the missing z coordinate in the editor, is probably stored in the bfd under the map's header, I think I know what one of those values are the arbitrary z coordinate possibly. my hypothesis: the editor has the ability to use/generate horizontal (xy) coordinates but inserts the arbitrary (constant) z coordinate along with them. and though we might not have the z coordinate automatically, what would be amazing is that we can now create our own flat-ish modules and use them in the module editor, bonus imho. now i'm sidetracked from my other mods *again* lol i'll see what my research comes up with on this. When you're done, could you perhaps send me the research and findings? I might be able to use them in a project of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme kotor Posted June 6, 2013 Share Posted June 6, 2013 Again I hate to break it to you but when making the KotorTool maps you put in 1 Z-Cord and all of the templates are spawned there. Do to fail safes with the map editor it will not automatically correct the Z-cords it will simply not spawn that template. From what I have read (not to say you couldent do it) Fred Tetra couldent figure out the Z cords. Good luck with that . As far as the flat maps go: you will need a VERY talented 3d modeler as there are many simingly random z changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sapiens Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 ok so i have done some research today, i have found i can move around the map entries in the bfd, i also have found out they contain a sort of offset for displaying where things are in the view port, for reference here is a ansi of the bfd Show spoiler (hidden content - requires Javascript to show) .....ÿÿÿÿ.............Hkotor_tool, Version=1.0.2102.39894, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=null......kotor_tool.MapInfo.....MapList.Version...System.Collections.ArrayList................System.Collections.ArrayList....._items._size._version....................... .....................................................................................................kotor_tool.MapInfo+Map.....L.S.Name.MapName.LXMul.LYMul.SXMul.SYMul.LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff...................................m02aa.26.93.26.58.12.47.12.54ï...A...-.........................m02ac.26.82.26.82.13.43.13.43i...c...·...³.....................m08aa.23.5.23.5.0.0¤...Ä.............................m10aa.34.78.34.78.17.39.17.39Ä...Á...b...á.....................m10ab.43.88.44.21.94.21.94«...T...Ï...(.....................m10ac.38.4.38.4.19.2.19.2¤...y...N...:.....................m11aa.0.0.20.1.20.1........°.........................m16aa.0.0.31.91.31.91........¾...-.....................m42aa.0.0.11.66.11.66........]...ª................ ....m43aa.20.06.20.5.10.02.10.022...7.......r................!....203tel.27.98.28.09.14.14.úÿÿ.úÿÿHýÿÿ.ýÿÿ.............#....204tel.43.6.43.6.21.8.21.8vñÿÿÙôÿÿ»øÿÿlúÿÿ.............$....207tel.67.67.33.56.33.56hþÿÿ.õÿÿ4ÿÿÿ‚úÿÿ.............%....208tel.39.46.39.46.19.7.19.7jùÿÿ.þÿÿ·üÿÿ.ÿÿÿ.............&....502ond.28.6.28.6.14.29.14.29.ýÿÿ ôÿÿ…þÿÿ.úÿÿ.............'....904mal.25.25.12.88.12.88áóÿÿFöÿÿ½ùÿÿøúÿÿ.............(....201tel.32.16.32.16.16.08.16.08¤øÿÿmùÿÿRüÿÿºüÿÿ............."....906mal.28.34.28.36.7.07.7.07…...ÎöÿÿŸ...³ýÿÿ. my assumption is that the pattern: MapName.LXMul.LYMul.SXMul.SYMul.LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff is used throughout like MapName.LXMul.LYMul.SXMul.SYMul.LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff m02aa .26 .93 .26 .58 .12 .47 .12 .54 so mapname is obvious, lxMul lymul sxmul symul, not so obvous other than x&y refer to their prospective axis, and l probably means either lower or left, no clue what S means. LXOff.LYOff.SXOff.SYOff are likely offsets for displaying the .map in the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fair Strides 2 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 here is a ansi of the bfd So is this ANSI C, ANSI text, or what? Which type of ANSI is it? I tried to search google for "ANSI" and didn't get much help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sapiens Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 So is this ANSI C, ANSI text, or what? Which type of ANSI is it? I tried to search google for "ANSI" and didn't get much help... it says ansi in the hex editor, its just a wqy to view the data as oposed to say hex or binary ts like using the ansi view of ktools hex editor.i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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