Simple question; Is LucasForums dead in all but name?

[Sithspecter]

So, you have the interest. You have the manpower. You have something that bears the semblance of a plan. I've even noticed the frequency of replies to this thread increasing over the past week. I'm no coder or web developer, but it seems to me that the powder's all in the keg. Someone just needs to light it. The next question seems to be whether the powers that be may be petitioned to act, or if new admins are called for to put the plan into motion (if that's what this is).

 

I'm not sure where you are reading all that from? I just combined your double post, with a humorous note. I'm just a simple moderator who tries to take care of a few things in Holowan Laboratories and wants to release a few more mods.

 

I really do love Lucasforums, but I don't have the know how to make any of the changes people are talking about. One thing that I do know is that Deadlystream, a forum tailored specifically for KotOR modding, is booming. I think an LF with a similar structure might do better.

[Adavardes]

@ Adavardes: Without going into all of the asshattery in the past, the admins were never trying to be unreasonable... and let's not pretend some of the members who had a problem with the admins were being reasonable people. The ugly truth that no one wants to admit is that we were ALL being asshats and no one wanted to say that they were wrong, all they wanted to do was try to convince people that everyone else but them were being asshats.

 

I was more speaking about forums in general, more than here. All forums had some sort of drama in the past that they try to distance themselves from, which was probably part of the problem with forums as a medium. It had to do with leadership coming from people that had no real reason to be leaders in the first place, because, in general, what people believed to be necessary levels of moderation tended to be overkill. When the amount of active staff is equal to or higher than the number of active users, there's typically a problem, and that's usually the first death pang you saw in forums back in the day.

 

Don't go fooling yourself either. With larger platforms, there are more rules and more restrictive rules than anything we ever placed on LF. The reason why it feels less restrictive is they're just that... larger platforms. It only SEEMS like there are less rules because there is A LOT more activity.

 

When LF was still large and busy with tonnes of activity, we didn't seem as unreasonable back then simply because so much was going on that no one had the time to complain about anything since so much discussion was being had about a variety of different subjects. No one had time to get into petty arguments about nothing.

 

Larger platforms tend to focus on copyrights and individual privacy more than they focus on content and censorship, which is really the focus of what I'm talking about when I'm talking about unnecessary rules that end up hurting forum communities. Again, this was more a general statement than singularly applying to LF. All in all, the rules are pretty moderate around here, but on other forums, they could get pretty strict, and admins would change them at will and on a whim, which is not good for discussion. People want to feel comfortable and free to express themselves, and when they're afraid of saying a bad word and getting the ban hammer, it doesn't exactly foster that feeling of safety and freedom, does it?

 

If I want to say "**** the system!" then I should be able to say it. When you start telling me not to say the f-word, that's when I start feeling like I'm back at high school, and I'd rather be somewhere else. That's really what I mean by restrictions. Facebook, tumblr, twitter, they don't keep you from saying what you want. In fact, I haven't run up against any moderators telling me I'm wrong, and I'm a very opinionated, rule-breaking sort of guy.

[mattig89ch]

I will say the look and feel does need to be updated. The current look doesn't look too friendly. The black background makes it seem all dark and UN-inviting. Not too mention the sheer listings of sub forums can be a bit overwhelming. It might be best to divide these sub forums into categories. FPS, RPG, Flight Sims, Puzzle, ect.

 

And, when I login, I have to get to a sub-forum to get to quick links and get to subscribed threads. My website design class does say the fewest amounts of clicks between a user and their desired destination is the best practice for any website.

[Taak Farst]

Judging by your outburst, Lynk, I'm going to assume you took my post in a harsh light, when that was not the intention. I would HOPE you wouldn't just give mod or admin status to every tom dick and harry that said they wanted it. That is not the way forward.

[Adavardes]

I think a lot of restructuring is in order, if an attempt at revival is at hand. As someone stated earlier in this thread, the forum is too bulky and too large, and needs to be dramatically resized and restructured to get it where it can function fluidly as a singular, solid community. Forums dedicated to older games need to be combined and synthesized into one "old school" style forum, where the newer stuff should be given the limelight, as that is where all the new members will be coming from.

 

Also, I agree that the format should be updated to be a bit more appealing to modern audiences. Bright, simple, utilitarian setups with limited colour choices and a sleek design is usually your best bet nowadays.

 

Lynk, question for you: has anyone in the staff thought to contact Disney about this website? I have no idea if they'd care or be willing to do anything with it, but it's always worth a shot. They are, after all, very into buying up smaller groups to conglomerate their brand.

[mattig89ch]

Do we want the heavy hand of Disney to take over this forum?

 

I'm not sure I'd want to be on a forum moderated by Disney.

[Adavardes]

Do we want the heavy hand of Disney to take over this forum?

 

I'm not sure I'd want to be on a forum moderated by Disney.

 

It's a way to keep the place alive. Never said it was optimal, just an idea.

[Lynk Former]

@ Adavardes: You make it sound as if web forums are dead and buried... they're not. There are a lot of forums around the net that still exist and still thrive. The big difference between those forums and LF is that their subject matter continued to be relevant and people stayed on topic with the subject matter.

 

And as I've described before, when people stay on subject matter and have a lot to talk about, they don't notice any of the restrictions because no one is fussed about going on some bull**** quest for their right to free speech. Why? Because all anyone really wanted to talk about was Star Wars games instead of freedom of speech.

 

It's only when the discussions start to disappear, that's when we start to have people thinking about other things. Sure, there have been drama's in LF for quite a while, since the start even. But they were all washed away quickly because people got back to talking about what was truly important in this place... video games.

 

And don't take this the wrong way either, I'm not against free speech. Many of you never realised it, but I had actually quit being a member of staff because I had a major disagreement with certain people in the moderation staff in LF about the way they were conducting themselves by deleting peoples posts and doing all manner of things I didn't agree with.

 

I didn't just exile myself, I had the admins take away my permissions and reduce me back down to a member. This lasted for over a year, but after that I returned because I didn't want to see this place die a slow death. When I came back after a year, I tried to do the best I could to get life back into this place, but I ultimately failed at doing that due to the lack of support. One person can't reinvigorate this place, it needs to be a group who is dedicated to the task.

 

And again, I've gone over ALL of this in my previous posts.

 

As for social networks... you talk about it as if it has lots of upsides but no downsides. There are MANY downsides to social networks and it's one of the big reasons why web forums still exist today. Web forums are closed, they're restrictive both in the topics that members talk about and in the way members are expected to conduct themselves.

 

However, you are wrong about the moderators in a web forum being a negative and that it makes things too restrictive. Think of it this way, in many social media platforms that have more freedoms for their users, there are a lot more trolls and a lot more people who are free to act like asshats and prey on normal folk. This is a common occurrence and it often results in things like cyber-bullying which greatly affects the lives of younger people on the Internet. I should know a lot about this since I'm an Information Technology teacher at a high school and I have to go through this with all of my students during years 7 through to 9.

 

However, that's not the only issue. The OTHER issue is that since there aren't any formal moderators for social networking sites, it then falls to actual law enforcement agencies to police them. There have been many cases where actual charges have been brought up against people for things they've said and done on social media that have led to fines and even prison time.

 

You say you should be able to say "**** the system" sure, I agree with that. But at least recognise why the system for older style web forums exist. We have people volunteering to moderate this place so that we can take care of our business ourselves and not have the many cases of social media asshattery happening with rampant trolling and government/law enforcement involvement.

 

The moderators exist to funnel discussion in a certain direction, and no, this isn't a bad thing. When a web forum works, when people talk about the topic, they're too busy talking about the common interests of that forum to start anything that lasts for more than a few days. At most, you'll have people get angry at each other about how long Yoda's ears should be.

 

So sure, you can spout your "row row fight tha powah!" all you want, but when this place did work, no one cared anything about their right to freedom of speech, cause the thing they wanted to talk freely about was simple: video games.

 

 

@ Taak Farst: You completely misinterpreted my "outburst" so I'll say it simply.

 

You guys talk too much. I'm not saying that everyone should become mods and admins, however, if there are certain people amongst you who are passionate enough about this and want to save this place, you have to

 

 

DO SOMETHING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As for Adavardes question: No one has contacted Disney because no one is active to contact Disney in the first place.

 

That's why I said in my previous post, if you want to do something, contact the entire admin list, say that you want to become staff members and actually do something with this place and get something done. If you guys actually manage to do that, I'll support you guys with whatever you do, I don't even care if you wipe away this entire place and start fresh, just as long as you guys

 

DO SOMETHING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because, truly and honestly, there is no one left on the staff who is doing anything here aside from clearing away spam bots. And as I've stated a billion times before, the LucasArts Fan Network is more than just LucasForums. So if one or more of you actually does do SOMETHING, I hope you think more than just about LucasForums itself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, part of me doesn't believe any of you will do anything... you're just waiting for someone else to stand up and do something. And perhaps, there is one person who does stand up... but one person is not enough. I know because I was that one person before, and I even managed to get a few more people, but even that isn't enough, it has to be A LOT of people who are 100% dedicated to the cause.

[Taak Farst]

LucasArts doesn't even exist anymore Lynk. It's hard to revitalize a forum for a company that doesn't exist and games that are at least a decade old. It would have to become a STAR WARS fan forum. Otherwise it's far too niche.

[Ferc Kast]

The thing is that Deadly Stream seems to fit this bill and I've heard has quite a large crowd. Lucasforums must first try and find a new purpose. Maybe shift towards a film and tv forum too, instead of a primarily gaming forum based on old games.

 

I've been here since 2007, which makes me feel ancient but it wasn't really all that long ago. Yet, regardless, I've barely ever set foot out of KotOR's forum because I simply found no reason to. A more general, simplified, consolidated forum would improve such an issue that I have no doubt others have too.

 

I've been around for just as long, though lately I've more been involved with my RP guild in SWTOR. These days, I mostly lurk on LucasForums.

[Zoom Rabbit]

And again, I've gone over ALL of this in my previous posts.

 

I used to compose long, wordy diatribes for the forums, which it seemed to me no one was reading...so I performed an experiment. Right in the middle of one of my long posts I inserted the sentence 'Mice wear hats in Spain.'

 

Just to see if anyone was reading it.

 

No one commented, meaning no one was reading them. Since then, I've made my points in shorter posts. You're definitely one of the good guys, Lynk; keep fighting the good fight.

[milestails]

I used to compose long, wordy diatribes for the forums, which it seemed to me no one was reading...so I performed an experiment. Right in the middle of one of my long posts I inserted the sentence 'Mice wear hats in Spain.'

 

Lol nice.

[Lynk Former]

@ Taak Farst: LucasArts, the name does still exist and the LucasArts logo is still used in modern Star Wars games. LucasArts the developer, however, does not exist.

 

So yes, the LucasArts Fan Network still stands as what it is, because all Star Wars games still fall under that title. Just as all Star Wars movies still fall under LucasFilm. Disney owning Lucas' empire now changes nothing about those division names and how they are used.

[Alexrd]

Actually, the name LucasArts was dropped as well. Now it's just Lucasfilm (see GOG partnership and the new Battlefront).

[Canderis]

Still LucasSomething.

[Taak Farst]

To be honest this is the first I've heard of a currently existing LucasArts Fan Network. Even lfnetwork.com is dead.

[Lynk Former]

@ Alexrd: Nice to know. Must have done it in the last few set of media releases cause it wasn't a few months ago that I still saw the LucasArts logo still there on Battlefront material... or I was going mad and imagining it O.o

 

@ Taak Fast: What I'm trying to say is that this place is more than just the forum. It became big because of the web sites attached to it that people visited. At the very least, my aim was to re-jig jediknight.net into a Star Wars gaming site that would be the front for the planned new and improved LucasForums. A place where we could post news, articles, podcasts, etc and link those back to forum discussions and community stuff.

 

The reason I emphasis the importance of such a web site to act as a front is because with enough content, it tends to attract people looking for information about Star Wars games from random places. They find the site, they see the forum, they join in on the discussions and the forums grow.

 

 

 

In any case, if things actually start moving, the "LucasArts Fan Network" as a brand name can still stand. We'd just use JediKnight.net as our front and "LucasForums" as our branding for the forums. Still works because LucasFilms still exists and LucasArts did exist in the past... and there is more to the whole Lucas empire than just Star Wars. There is also Indiana Jones and all the other non-Star Wars games that came out because of LucasArts.

 

As Canderis said, it's still LucasSomething.

[Ser'eck]

And that there is the main problem. Everyone is trying to hold on to these really old games just because they were made by Lucasarts. When in reality they are dead and forgotten by most everyone else. The only people interested in them are the ones that grew up playing them, there are not that many kids today interested in them.

 

The old games need to be let go and their forums need to be archived. If someone really wants to keep their memories alive they can simply do so with a fan made website.

 

We have new games on the horizon that we could make a fresh start with. But we have to let go of nostalgia and let the old LF die with dignity. This forum will not get any better the way it is, NEVER! It's time to admit that and move on.

 

Lucasforums - A forum for Lucasfilm movies and games, with an archived forum for all things Lucasarts.

[Lynk Former]

@ Ser'eck: You do realise that we can't simply change the name of this place unless new domain names are bought. Are you going to pay for that?

 

As for archiving stuff, I've already said that that's what we should do and it was rejected when I suggested it.

 

Bleah, I should really just make my posts dot points with no more than 5 words per dot point.

 

- Old staff has no motivation

- Everyone stuck in past

- Suggested archiving and start fresh

- No one wants to let go

- No new people coming in

- Too much talk, no action

- Everyone wants others to do it

- Going around in circles, fun

 

 

...I know what NEEDS to be done, but no one is going to let me do it and I don't have enough people backing me to do it to begin with.

[Alexrd]

Still LucasSomething.

 

Lucasfilm was the parent company, that was never going away.

 

@ Alexrd: Nice to know. Must have done it in the last few set of media releases cause it wasn't a few months ago that I still saw the LucasArts logo still there on Battlefront material... or I was going mad and imagining it O.o

 

Yes, it's fairly recent. Although Battlefront was always Lucasfilm. I believe the LucasArts logo still appears on TOR related material, but that's probably due to being an old project. Every brand new product/re-release was replaced by Lucasfilm/Disney Interactive.

[mattig89ch]

Oh come now, there are people re-discovering these old games all the time. gog has many of these games on their catalog.

 

I never did play republic commando until I picked it up off gog via a sale.

 

I think archiving the old forums would be a bit much. Condensing them down into a few forums would be better (imo).

[Taak Farst]

Well, Lynk, personally, I'd absolutely love to help and would if I could devote myself to it as much as I can. However, I have no web design skills or ANYTHING that is useful really, so I won't put myself forward. If we need moderators in the future however, I will happily talk to you or other admins about it.

 

Can this forum grow? Yes. But relevancy is key. Consolidation and modernization revamps are needed on here first and foremost, with us maybe simply ditching most if not all the banner websites like starwarsknights.com and sticking with just jediknight.net, and putting all the older games into one forum, with maybe giving newer games like Battlefront their own space.

 

Just ideas, nothing useful.

 

EDIT: What I'm trying to say Lynk is that I certainly back you and the forum and would help any way I can. But yeah, we need more numbers.

EDIT2: mattig89ch, are those people who are rediscovering the old games coming HERE though?

[Ser'eck]

@ Taak Farst: I too have no web design skills but I am willing to learn what is needed to help. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean you can't learn it.

 

I have already contacted each admin about this issue and requesting to be apart of the staff.

 

Lynk is right, those of us who really want to see this place come back to life need to step up to the plate, even if we don't know what we are doing.

[Taak Farst]

We need people who have made more than an average of one post a week since they joined, to be fair.

[Canderis]

I have, as well, contacted all of the admins about helping. No response yet, but I am serious about wanting to help. I just don't know what else I can do as just a regular user.

 

The only thing I personally care about keeping around is all the modding threads. They are far too useful to let die, but moving them is probably fine.

 

The way I see it, the first step is to redo jediknight.net, after that the forums need the attention. With the forums, there's a few options, IMO.

1) We can erase mostly everything and start fresh. Now, I don't exactly think this is the best option, but it is still an option.

2) We can archive all the existing forums and start fresh. No new posts would be added to them, they'd still be around, but dead and locked.

3) We can reorganize everything into a few forums and move everything to its appropriate new home. (Classic Game Discussion, Star Wars: The New Era Games, and Non-Star Wars. Then make as minimal as possible of sub-forums for those areas)