Return to Monkey Island

[Rum Rogers]

31 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

I think they're an incredible team of two very strong and very different characters , and I strongly believe they're going to give us great things. ❤️

I'm also expecting nothing less than greatness from this game. ❤️

[KestrelPi]

34 minutes ago, Vainamoinen said:

 

I love that latest interview in that respect, but I also really love the dynamic suggested in the early adventure gamers interview. Ron Gilbert, he seems to be all impulse, creativity, he's got drive and energy, he's ready to try everything both new and old, he's taking all the risks, oscillating between the extremes, but he's of course also grumpy as ever – thin skinned, vulnerable to negative comments, and prone to self doubt. That's where Dave Grossman comes in. He's got the motivation, he's all zen, he brings the "yes we actually can", he balances things out, he's at the theoretical and conceptual level when Ron has long since turned to his wonderful but not infallible instinct.

 

I think they're an incredible team of two very strong and very different characters , and I strongly believe they're going to give us great things. ❤️

 

Of course, the bit that's always in my head (while I agree with most of this) is how much will we miss the lack of Tim's voice. I mean Ron's said in the past he would give Dave certain characters, Tim others, and keep some for himself and generally knew how to portion that out based on the character. If Ron is all instinct and Dave is all positivity, then I wonder how Tim used to complete the set, and how much we will miss that.

 

I think, just looking at Tim's worlds he created after Monkey Island, he is really good at evoking a vibe. If you think about the world of Full Throttle, and how it felt like this vaguely post apocalyptic, sort of futuristic but sort of old fashioned, but never completely defined world, and then the writing in Grim Fandango and how good the writing of that was at layering in detail without feeling the need to spell everything out. He's an excellent vibesmith, creating and maintaining an atmosphere in a game, usually one where there's a bit of lurking darkness as an undercurrent. I often wonder how much he had to do with how CREEPY LeChuck is in MI2, for example. There's something a little bit ...I don't know, metal? about his portrayal in that game.

 

If Ron is the impulse and creativity, and Dave is a positive, intellectual force, maybe Tim is the grit that gives the thing texture and depth, and I hope they find a way of bridging that gap.

 

 

[Jake]

My Thimbleweed Park confession is, before I started playing I flipped the switch in settings for fewer injokes. I have no regrets. (There we’re still plenty of injokes but it felt like a normal amount for the type of story it was telling; I have no idea what I might have “missed out on,” and don’t even want to know, because the experience felt plenty complete without whatever I disabled with that checkbox.)

[KestrelPi]

9 minutes ago, Jake said:

My Thimbleweed Park confession is, before I started playing I flipped the switch in settings for fewer injokes. I have no regrets. (There we’re still plenty of injokes but it felt like a normal amount for the type of story it was telling; I have no idea what I might have “missed out on,” and don’t even want to know, because the experience felt plenty complete without whatever I disabled with that checkbox.)

 

I turned it off after a few hours, and I think it's been better for it.

[Jake]

I really like Thimbleweed Park. It’s one of the few games I’ve played since Monkey 1 and 2 that have the same nebulous feeling of “something dark and unknowable lies beneath the surface,” that slowly seeps into the game the more I played, which I guess means that’s a Ron thing. 

[Vainamoinen]

Thimbleweed Park was great. It's been a long time since an adventure game world opened up like this, without overwhelming you. It ruthlessly plunged you into the unknown with that central LucasArtsian parachute: There's always a way out and you can not die. It wasn't a trip down nostalgia lane for me, because I started out with TSoMI (yes I did play Maniac Mansion on my C128 when I was eleven, but besides finding the key to the front door, there really was no getting through any puzzle). So I think I gave it credit on its own merit. Variety of puzzles, design of puzzles, the music was great, the lighting really set a mood, and the flashbacks to introduce more player characters were a great idea. It was the first game where *bleeps* were funny instead of plainly annoying.

 

 

4 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

If Ron is all instinct and Dave is all positivity, then I wonder how Tim used to complete the set, and how much we will miss that. [...]

 

If Ron is the impulse and creativity, and Dave is a positive, intellectual force, maybe Tim is the grit that gives the thing texture and depth, and I hope they find a way of bridging that gap.

 

Ohhhh Tim is Rock'n'Roll, Tim is song and dance, Tim is anarchy and rebellion, Tim is chaos, he's unchecked emotion, he's overconfidence and cordiality. When Ron grumbles into his beard and Dave keeps all silent, Tim will boom like a kakapo on rimu overdose. He's the fresh mints that Guybrush keeps in his pockets until in Chapter 13 he needs to really freshen things up. He's making one vastly successful, brilliant game after another and still has to fire a whole lot of people pre-release, let alone sell his company to Microsoft. He's introducing tank controls into what could have been one of the greatest point and clicks ever, for the mere sake of innovation, and still seems to be proud of it 25 years later.

 

I don't know where in the game exactly, but I'm sure I'll miss him one way or another.

 

 

11 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

This is pretty cool.

 

Some great reharmonization at the beginning there, plus the seamless transition to Captain Kate's theme – I love it!

Edited May 20, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[KestrelPi]

2 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

He's making one vastly successful, brilliant game after another and still has to fire a whole lot of people pre-release, let alone sell his company to Microsoft. 

 

Well, I agree with some of that, but I don't know about that bit. Depends how you measure success, but arguably Psychonauts 2 is their first real commercial success and the rest just... did enough to keep them afloat, and had decent long term sales. One thing that I think was very striking about Double Fine is that in all their struggles, and all their never-quite-exploding in the way I would have loved, they basically managed to retain staff for WAY longer than most game companies, and only really had to consider redundancies on a couple of occasions, under extraordinary circumstances (and I think some of those people were subsequently re-hired). I think the selling to Microsoft feels like way less of an unpredictable move when you consider just how long they spent cruising under their own power, and how much of a struggle it must have been NOT to constantly be firing people and cutting back.

 

Some people took some stories from Broken Age and wove it into a narrative of financial incompetence, but to me, the story of Double Fine is overwhelmingly one of extreme resiliance against all odds, and this Microsoft thing is just Tim coming to terms with the fact that if he keeps rolling the dice, he's going to hit snake eyes.

 

I think Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts, some but not all of Broken Age, and Psychonauts 2 have made me realise I do really like Tim's voice as a writer, and while I can't untangle the first two games enough to understand exactly what might be absent without him, I hope they manage to absorb enough of that DNA from the first two games to make his presence felt indirectly.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Vainamoinen]

18 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

I think Full Throttle, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts, some but not all of Broken Age, and Psychonauts 2 have made me realise I do really like Tim's voice as a writer, and while I can't untangle the first two games enough to understand exactly what might be absent without him, I hope they manage to absorb enough of that DNA from the first two games to make his presence felt indirectly.

 

And with this I will agree, unconditionally.

[neoncolor8]

3 hours ago, Jake said:

My Thimbleweed Park confession is, before I started playing I flipped the switch in settings for fewer injokes. I have no regrets. (There we’re still plenty of injokes but it felt like a normal amount for the type of story it was telling; I have no idea what I might have “missed out on,” and don’t even want to know, because the experience felt plenty complete without whatever I disabled with that checkbox.)

Lucky you! When I played this game there was no switch for fewer in-jokes. It was too much tbh, i really hope they learned their lesson for RoMI. 

[Romão]

12 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

This is pretty cool.

 

 

 

I think this is the coolest version of Lechuck's theme I have ever heard, and that's saying something

[Rum Rogers]

1 hour ago, Vainamoinen said:

He's introducing tank controls into what could have been one of the greatest point and clicks ever

And still managed to make it one of the greatest adventure games ever! Just dropped the point and click, amazing.

[Niemandswasser]

51 minutes ago, neoncolor8 said:

Lucky you! When I played this game there was no switch for fewer in-jokes. It was too much tbh, i really hope they learned their lesson for RoMI. 

It was the same for me. I played a couple of hours then stopped because it was just obnoxious. Played it all the way through after they introduced the toggle switch and...still didn't like it very much. If I never play another adventure game that's just about how great adventure games are it'll be too soon.

[madmardi]

9 hours ago, Niemandswasser said:

It was the same for me. I played a couple of hours then stopped because it was just obnoxious. Played it all the way through after they introduced the toggle switch and...still didn't like it very much. If I never play another adventure game that's just about how great adventure games are it'll be too soon.

 

I don't know... I just played it for the first time and I loved TP. In fact it made me wonder where I've been for the last few years... Really wished I had backed it from the beginning. 

 

When I started playing the in-jokes were turned off by default, so about an hour in I turned them on. And to be frank I thought it was strange that anyone would have complained that there were too many in the first place. Isn't that the type of game they were going for all along? It really does fit in with the story. I wish they were turned on by default, seeing as that was the way it was originally meant to be played.

 

And speaking of story, I really liked it. I grew on me as I progressed and by the end I thought they did a great job planning it all out. And to give it a bit more context, I'm not normally into mysteries, murder plots, or generally any story that is a bit dark. I always loved Monkey Island (as it was fun and funny) and I really enjoyed DOTT (as it was also funny and cartoony), but I would initially stay away from serious or dark stories, such as The Dig or Grim Fandango. Eventually I ended up giving all of the LA adventure games a try, and was very pleasantly surprised, but it usually took some time for me to get into them.

[madmardi]

18 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Yep, it’s my biggest concern that Ron tries to out meta himself to the detriment of the story. 
 

It’s weird. I agree with the things that Ron says in interviews and on his blog about adventure games. The importance of story. The importance of the game world. Why adventure games suck, etc. but then I play Thimbleweed Park and I go… what happened to all that stuff you said?

 

I believe it’s 1. Story above all else. 2. Love your characters. 
 

In the first version of TP, the main characters didn’t really have any personality. Dialogue for them was patched in later. Am afterthought. And then the story was completely jettisoned at the end. 

 

This I have troubles understanding - I don't know how you can say "the story was completely jettisoned at the end". That was the story... that was the story they came up with and had planned from the beginning. And knowing that ending, everything before that fits into it really nicely. It wasn't like they ran out of time or something. 

 

Anyways, nothing wrong with people not liking a story, but I guess I just don't understand the comments that make it sound like the story was going great and they just drove it off a cliff.

 

As for the dialog between characters, Ron did admit that was something he should have thought about and included much earlier - my thoughts are that it was simply an oversight since doing full dialog trees wasn't something that was decided from the beginning. IMHO, Ron and Gary knew their characters so well having designed them and redesigned them countless times that they made the mistake of forgetting that the player doesn't know them as well as they do. I think Ron realized that it was a missed opportunity to develop the characters deeper... which is why he quickly patched it into the game.

Edited May 21, 2022 by madmardi

[madmardi]

I just realize that my first two posts to these forums in over 14 years were about Thimbleweed Park and had nothing to do with RTMI. Sorry for being off topic, but I feel like everything has just been overanalyzed and I'm dying for new information. A few more screenshots, a gameplay video, or something would be lovely!

[Lagomorph01]

21 minutes ago, madmardi said:

I just realize that my first two posts to these forums in over 14 years were about Thimbleweed Park and had nothing to do with RTMI. Sorry for being off topic, but I feel like everything has just been overanalyzed and I'm dying for new information. A few more screenshots, a gameplay video, or something would be lovely!

No problem, MadMardi! We are all dying for more information, and the topic has been derailing and rerailing for pages now. Welcome back!

[OzzieMonkey]

28 minutes ago, Lagomorph01 said:

No problem, MadMardi! We are all dying for more information, and the topic has been derailing and rerailing for pages now. Welcome back!

By the time we get more info the conversation will have derailed so much that it really will be a Return to Monkey Island 😂

[KestrelPi]

I'm deeply curious, but I would beg people to stick to spoiler tags as I'm still playing about where the story of Thimbleweed is going to go.

 

After all, Monkey 2 also had a rug pulling ending, but while some people didn't like that, a lot of people, especially here DO like it, and are intensely interested in what that ending means for Return.

 

My reaction to the ending of MI2 at the time was that it sort of blew my mind while being confused. As time went on I started noticing all of the stuff through the first two games that support (while not fully explaining) the ending, and now it's hard for me to imagine it ending any other way.

 

If I'm going to get the rug pulled in some way with Thimbleweed i think I'm going to have to really get into my 10 year old brain and try to imagine if it would have blown my mind similarly.

 

Anyway, they don't call me the Topic-Get-Back-Onner for nothing. Let me make a prediction: at some point during Return, a character will call Threepwood "Thimbleweed"

[OzzieMonkey]

18 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Anyway, they don't call me the Topic-Get-Back-Onner for nothing. Let me make a prediction: at some point during Return, a character will call Threepwood "Thimbleweed"

I think that's a pretty safe bet, it's not far off from Thriftweed, after all. 

 

On the topic of spoilers, it's gonna be an absolute minefield navigating that stuff when this comes out, not as bad as when a new Marvel or Star Wars thing comes out though (this is still a niche series after all). I would hate to find out what the true Secret of Monkey Island™ is through a wall of text on a forum post, for example. 

[Toymafia88]

59 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Anyway, they don't call me the Topic-Get-Back-Onner for nothing. Let me make a prediction: at some point during Return, a character will call Threepwood "Thimbleweed"

This is... genius!!!

 

It's also very much Ron's style of humour. 

[Toymafia88]

I'm finally ready to start my Monkey-a-thon. I was hoping for a release date before I started but I'm getting a bit impatient waiting for news.

 

My only issue is what order to play them.

 

With Return being a Monkey Island game that takes place right after 2, my natural conclusion is to play 2 last.

 

So I'm thinking of playing the Non Gilbert trilogy first (Curse, Escape and Tales) and then play the Ron Gilbert trilogy of Secret, Revenge and Return.

 

Kinda like watching star wars is better out of order with episodes 4, 5, 6, 1, 2 & 3

 

 

Or...

 

Do i just play 1 and 2, then play Return... then play Curse, Escape and Tales.

 

The lack of clarity on what Return is makes it hard to plan a marathon...

Edited May 21, 2022 by Toymafia88

[OzzieMonkey]

Appropos of Return using the old logo instead of what the SEs and Tales went for, I decided to make matching ones for those games.

Edited May 21, 2022 by OzzieMonkey

[Toymafia88]

7 minutes ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Appropos of Return using the old logo instead of what the SEs and Tales went for, I decided to make matching ones for those games.

 

I always found Tales's logo really distracting. Looks so much better like this.

 

Thank you for making this 😁

 

You know what would be cool to see?

 

A logo of Mi2 but that fits with the naming structure of the other games.

 

Like... Revenge of Monkey Island

Edited May 21, 2022 by Toymafia88

[madmardi]

23 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

I'm finally ready to start my Monkey-a-thon. I was hoping for a release date before I started but I'm getting a bit impatient waiting for news.

 

Soon as Return was announced I started my own Monkey-a-thon (great name btw!) and finished a few weeks ago. As it was over ten years since I've played them (maybe more like 15 for some?) it was a great trip down memory lane. The first four were pretty strongly etched into my brain, but with Tales it almost felt like I never had played it before. My guess is that's just because I only played through Tales once when it first came out (compared to countless times for the others)... but on a positive note it felt like a whole new game!

 

If nothing else, I'm grateful that the announcement of the new game inspired me to go back and replay these gems. Love them just as much as I did when I was a teenager.

[Jake]

54 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

My only issue is what order to play them.

 

I would not overthink it, and play them in the order they were made!

 

40 minutes ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Appropos of Return using the old logo instead of what the SEs and Tales went for, I decided to make matching ones for those games.

This color is a little dark but is otherwise exactly what I wanted the Tales of MI logo to look like, but LucasArts wouldn’t let us at the time, because it was the “old school” logo and didn’t reflect the current state of the brand. I was pretty sad that as a result it wasn’t allowed to match the rest of the series (other than the special editions). Makes me happy to see this again.