Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

26 minutes ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Does this have anything to do with that theory about Guybrush and Chuckie going home from the carnival to read a pirate book and arguing about how the story goes? 

I've never heard that one. I like it, as a device, though.

 

The way I see it, we'll open in the carnival, and as they go through the carnival, we'll see a lot of the things in the carnival look familiar, from all of the different games...

 

...and then maybe there'll be a time jump. We move past a bit of foreground scenery and suddenly it's guybrush taking his own kids there. The carnival has become a bit run down compared to how it used to be. Guybrush starts daydreaming and reminiscing about all the adventures he used to have here with Chuckie, and how much of the little stories they had were left unresolved. Starts to wonder how the story might have ended and as his mind wanders, we find ourself back in the world of Monkey Island, and soon land at a cracked and run down version of Melee, with an older Guybrush, wondering where his life went.

[KestrelPi]

Of course, it might be might more nuanced than 'it was all guybrush and chuckie's childhood imagination' (and I think a lot about that notion, but perhaps not EVERYTHING about it makes sense).

 

But it's not a problem for me, if that's the way they go with it. I was never bothered by the idea the Monkey Island world might be in some sense fictional, within the fiction. If the story was already 100% fictional then it doesn't really make it any MORE fictional to make it a fiction within fiction. It's still real to the characters living within the fiction.

 

I think it's only bad when it's used as a get-out, like when they decided to make one whole season of Dallas a dream so that they could write a character back in or something, as a way to just say 'ignore or all that, it didn't happen'

 

But like I don't think people were particularly bothered by the ending of The Wizard of Oz, because it was quite well integrated with the story - oh yes, she wakes up and in context it's clear she was having a strange dream about how she felt about all the people in her life, and it makes sense, and it doesn't invalidate the story that was just told, it just puts it in a bit of a new context.

Edited July 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 hour ago, OzzieMonkey said:

Does this have anything to do with that theory about Guybrush and Chuckie going home from the carnival to read a pirate book and arguing about how the story goes? 

 

I've never heard this theory before today. Is it just something that's popped up because people are trying to guess what's going to happen in Return?

 

I saw endless speculation when Twin Peaks The Return came out. Everyone was trying to be the one who "guessed it". It was like a race to predict the turns of the story. The thing is, there's only so many places a story can go. (Sad truth: If you stop a movie halfway, and then sit down with a pen and paper you can usually deduce any twists and turns that are coming -- it doesn't take much effort, it just spoils the experience.)

 

Eventually someone will guess correctly from the sheer law of averages vs possibilities. I don't know if anyone actually guessed what was going on in Twin Peaks Season 3, but I bet someone got close.

 

I know I won't stop speculation, but I reckon eventually (like someone pausing a film and trying to figure out the turns) someone will spoil it for themselves 😬

[KestrelPi]

6 minutes ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

I know I won't stop speculation, but I reckon eventually (like someone pausing a film and trying to figure out the turns) someone will spoil it for themselves 😬

I never understood this concept, myself. I don't feel like correctly guessing the ending is the same as knowing the ending. There are a few ways i think this could go, and it wouldn't shock me if one of my guesses is close to the truth, or if it's completely off. Either way, I'll be delighted, because I don't honestly know what's going to happen.

 

If it is something like one of the things I said I'll have bragging rights for days to say how much I called it, if not then I can laugh about how off base I was. And in the mean time, it's fun to try to guess.

Edited July 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[OzzieMonkey]

One thing that does intrigue me is...if the game starts in the carnival, why does the Part 1 title card evoke Melee Island? Will we get to solve any puzzles in the carnival as a prologue or will it be a quick cutscene before we're back to the pirate world? I mean, they could've edited the title card to say Part 1 when it's actually Part 2, but that's a stretch. 

[MurraySchull]

I guess the carnival could be a pre-credits sequence along the lines of Tales' opening. (Not to say that it will be its' only appearance) I'm curious if we'll return to Melee through the elevator in the underground tunnels rather than sailing there. Given that we presumably will be exploring Melee early into the game, I'd lean towards getting there through the shortcut.

[KestrelPi]

Yeah, my guess would be either that the carnival sequence doubles up as a UI tutorial or a cutscene and then Part 1 begins after we're fully back in the more familiar Monkey Island setting (however that happens)

 

I'm thinking about that title a friendly place. It wouldn't surprise me if the end of the prologue has guybrush arriving at Melee for the first time in a long time.

 

"Ah, after so many weeks at sea it feels good to finally be back in a..." LeChuck's ship looms into view...

 

Part I

A Friendly Place

Edited July 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[ThunderPeel2001]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

I never understood this concept, myself. I don't feel like correctly guessing the ending is the same as knowing the ending.

 

I agree. Even if you guess correctly, it's not worth any bragging rights because it's just a guess. It's not like anyone could cleverly deduce anything at this stage. It's just randomly throwing story elements at a wall until they stick (which, incidentally, is part of the writer's process).

 

And later, once we have more information, if you do cleverly deduce something then you're only spoiling a plot twist for yourself. (I agree this can be satisfying, but given that Ron making a new Monkey Island is so incredibly rare -- and unlikely to happen again -- I'd personally put planned surprises over satisfaction at outwitting him and Dave.)

 

Anyway, that's just how I see it. I don't expect anyone change their views.

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

I agree. Even if you guess correctly, it's not worth any bragging rights because it's just a guess. It's not like anyone could cleverly deduce anything at this stage. It's just randomly throwing story elements at a wall until they stick (which, incidentally, is part of the writer's process).

 

And later, once we have more information, if you do cleverly deduce something then you're only spoiling a plot twist for yourself. (I agree this can be satisfying, but given that Ron making a new Monkey Island is so incredibly rare -- and unlikely to happen again -- I'd personally put planned surprises over satisfaction at outwitting him and Dave.)

 

Anyway, that's just how I see it. I don't expect anyone change their views.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think it's particularly impressive to correctly guess any of this. But that doesn't mean I won't quote myself and say CALLED IT the moment I get anything even slightly correct 😄

[ThunderPeel2001]

18 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think it's particularly impressive to correctly guess any of this. But that doesn't mean I won't quote myself and say CALLED IT the moment I get anything even slightly correct 😄

 

The Nostradamus principle: If you guess enough random things, eventually one of them might look right  

[KestrelPi]

1 minute ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

The Nostradamus principle: If you guess enough random things, eventually one of them might look right  

Ha! Exactly. Though, in my own defense I think I've only guessed a few things: how I think the intro might transition from carnival to whatever the game story is, how I think Part I might play in, what LeChuck's deal is right now, and whether the Voodoo Lady will be in the game (this one was a long shot gamble and I already lost )

 

I should make some more wild predictions.

 

*The circus will be there, but abandoned

* Meathook and possibly Hook Isle will not feature in the game.

* The grog machine will still be in the same place

* We'll finally find out the story of that troll

* Captain Smirk is dead

* the new pirate leaders make Guybrush go through a whole different three trials designed for a new generation of pirates.

* Eventually that box carrying ghost helps you beat LeChuck

[Scummbuddy]

 

 

(Futurama - Episode 2: "Moon Lander returned to this site by the Historical Sticklers Society".

 

A similar plaque will be found within the head of the Giant Monkey Head.

 

[KestrelPi]

36 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

* Captain Smirk is dead

 

Okay, though let's get bold and specific with this prediction:

 

Captain Smirk is not only dead but died immediately after giving you swordfighting lessons, hence there being no answer after he closes the door on you for the last time.

 

When you go there all you find is THE MACHINE, with his skeleton on the end of the sword.

 

If you talk to the skeleton, one of the dialog options is:

 

* How appropriate. You fight like a cow.

[madmardi]

20 hours ago, Thrik said:

Oh, but it’s so charming and really captures the hustling town atmosphere…

 

Okay, back to EMI bashing I see...

 

IMHO they made a clear choice to artistically change the look of Melee (and Monkey) Island, rather than trying to recreate it exactly as in MI1 but in 3D. Although part of me wishes that it had been a bit more accurately done, I also understand their reasons for not getting all caught up in making it super accurate. They most likely would have had to deal with criticism even if they had done it well, and stylizing it was a smart choice.

[madmardi]

16 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

In many ways I could have been okay with them changing the layout if it had even felt a little bit like the same place. Like, had a similar vibe, or SOMETHING. But going back over it and looking at the scenes it's hard to believe it even IS Melee Island. It captures nothing of the vaguely eerie night-time vibe from MI1, where everything sort of washes into the same colour palette and so the rare exceptions (like the circus tent) really stand out. I feel like even if they'd significantly changed the layout for the new game, it would have been instantly recognisable as Melee.

 

Well, I disagree, as it felt right as Melee to me. I'm not really sure what I think of mimicking the layout exactly, and I'm not saying I'm against it for Return, but if they had done something like that for Escape (but in 3D) I don't know if it would have gone over as well at the time. I think part of that has to do with it now being 30 years later, and this game really is dripping with nostalgia, even if it is pushing to be a new MI game at the same time.

[Remi]

In defense of EMI... Had they stayed a little bit closer to the concept art's details, there would likely be fewer complaints.

 

 

And to keep this ReMI related, going by Thrik's screenshot above, it looks like they took the docks from it!

 

[Thrik]

Speaking of EMI…

 

 

[KestrelPi]

44 minutes ago, Remi said:

In defense of EMI... Had they stayed a little bit closer to the concept art's details, there would likely be fewer complaints.

 

 

And to keep this ReMI related, going by Thrik's screenshot above, it looks like they took the docks from it!

 

Even looking at that picture, I'm thinkin' where did all these palm trees come from? These are the trees we see in Melee:

 

 

I don't think it's unfair to say that the vegetation and landscape of an island is a really strong influence on its character...

 

and another major influence would have to be the architecture - and where in the original game and ReMI the roofing looks slightly ramshackle, in that concept art it mostly looks sturdy and nice.

 

But as I say, for me it was a lot more about vibe than layout specifically. I just never really 'bought' it as Melee. The Mansion came close, but even then, it becomes a rather different place when it's not overshadowed by huge, ominous cliffs, right?

[Vainamoinen]

5 hours ago, Marius said:

Zombie Guybrush from the end of Tales reading this with a tear in his eye.

 

The Zombie Guybrush one, that I should have known. Sadly my replay this year ended horribly in episode 4. 😬

 

 

[Vainamoinen]

6 hours ago, Marius said:

I'm sure this theory has been mentioned before: Monkey Island is surrounded by a "voodoo mist", right? So, what if you get to different versions of the island, depending on the voodoo spell you are cooking to get there.

 

I smell a hell of a puzzle chain, or rather puzzle shish kebap, coming up, and I really want to stir that soup again.

[Vainamoinen]

TRIPLE POST WOHOOO.

 

Just stepping in to add that they really have to release Return to Monkey Island once we hit page 100.

[KestrelPi]

The Secret of Monkey Island is that it's an interdimentional nexus leading to and from different versions of itself and possibly everywhere else too.

 

Sure. I'll buy it.

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by KestrelPi

[MurraySchull]

Really hoping the storekeeper makes a reappearance, and that he'll be voiced by Jess Harnell once again. I know we saw a brief glimpse of him in that original Melee screenshot but hoping we get some more interactions.

 

Wondering to what degree other characters/returning voice actors will be appearing in the game. I know we've seen glimpses of Wally, The Scumm Bar Chef, Cobb and Otis, etc. but we haven't recieved official confirmation on their returning voice actors yet. Carla sounds identical to her MI1SE actress, who also voiced the Voodoo Lady, so I'd imagine she'll be back in both roles too. We also know Rob Paulsen is voicing the lookout once again, which to me feels like a nice bookend!

[Thrik]

28 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

Even looking at that picture, I'm thinkin' where did all these palm trees come from? These are the trees we see in Melee:

 

 

I don't think it's unfair to say that the vegetation and landscape of an island is a really strong influence on its character...

 

and another major influence would have to be the architecture - and where in the original game and ReMI the roofing looks slightly ramshackle, in that concept art it mostly looks sturdy and nice.

 

But as I say, for me it was a lot more about vibe than layout specifically. I just never really 'bought' it as Melee. The Mansion came close, but even then, it becomes a rather different place when it's not overshadowed by huge, ominous cliffs, right?

It seems daft but yes the palm tree thing struck me too, given the prominence of Melee Island’s pine forests in the original game.

 

The Special Edition naturally covered the overhead map in palm trees.

[MurraySchull]

It really says a lot about how well realised and memorable these locations from the games feel to us that we're still here debating about what Melee Island is supposed to look like, even down to weather or not palm trees grew on the island! A less well realised world wouldn't have inspired that discussion.