Something about EMI with CMI graphics

[Nfsfan83]

Guys I have weird, crazy and funny idea? I love classic 2D adventures and hate all 3D Monkey Island for me is finished on TCOMI. I never play 4 and others. But just wondering Bill Tiller made amazing job in TCOMI maybe some fans can transform Escape For Monkey island using adventure games studio or other program to 2D game like TCOMI and best part... On kickstarter this project will be  take money for Bill Tiller will be drawing all MI4 3D backgrounds in 2D TCOMI style? many pissing and stupid parts and puzzles can be deleted etc. Many sprites can be used from TCOMi (Gubrush all moves) Greetings

 

Reddit find image:

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by Nfsfan83

[ThunderPeel2001]

If this forum would allow me to give your post a thumbs down, I would do so.

 

Grim Fandango is near the pinnacle of anything LucasArts ever did. Converting it (or Escape for that matter) into 2D would not make them better games. 

[Laserschwert]

Why the hell is that in this thread though?

[Lagomorph01]

If you delete all the stupid parts and puzzles from EMI, all you're left with is one brilliant swamp puzzle.

[Thrik]

20 hours ago, Nfsfan83 said:

Guys I have weird, crazy and funny idea? I love classic 2D adventures and hate all 3D Monkey Island for me is finished on TCOMI. I never play 4 and others. But just wondering Bill Tiller made amazing job in TCOMI maybe some fans can transform Escape For Monkey island using adventure games studio or other program to 2D game like TCOMI and best part... On kickstarter this project will be  take money for Bill Tiller will be drawing all MI4 3D backgrounds in 2D TCOMI style? many pissing and stupid parts and puzzles can be deleted etc. Many sprites can be used from TCOMi (Gubrush all moves) Greetings

 

Reddit find image:

 

Are you aware of Return to Monkey Island?! 😀

[Nfsfan83]

Guys, if is a problem with my post, sorry and please remove or move to other thread. I love classic 2D Monkey Island games, and in this thread is about Bill Tiller so I only write my idea.

 

I never like it Grim Fandango especially in 3D crap 😛 I don't play Return to Monkey Island reject me shitty, flash, cheap graphics like SE.

 

Also we need in EMI classic Alexandra Boyd as Elaine voice. About stupid puzzles I mean only monkey kombat !!!

Edited May 8, 2023 by Nfsfan83

[Remi]

Split away from the entirely unrelated thread.

[Nfsfan83]

thank you

[ThunderPeel2001]

5 hours ago, Nfsfan83 said:

I never like it Grim Fandango especially in 3D crap 😛

 

[Rum Rogers]

Logged in after months just to show my utter disapproval for such a terrible lack of judgement for the invaluable gem that is Grim Fandango. I can't believe what I'm reading.

[Nfsfan83]

For you is a gem, for me is average LucasArts game simple. The Dig also is for me not too good. Monkey Island 1-3 rocks !!!

 

Ok, I must be honest , I played original Grim in many years ago and story is not bad but biggest problem is for me 3D graphics and look of main character. I love Beetlejuice 1988 movie, why that can't be in Grim normal-dead people. In 1998 3D graphics still in develop even FPS games didn't look good.

 

I watch now on YT Grim OST and music is nice.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Nfsfan83

[Rum Rogers]

Sure, I'm not trying to force you to like Grim Fandango, my point is that maybe the motivation behind your dislike is a bit weak? Grim Fandango has 3D characters/objects but the backgrounds are 2D, pre-rendered, and gorgeous? It's not a full 3D game at all.
Aside from that, it even made it to the museum of modern art for a lot of reasons: story, dubbing, puzzles, art direction, OST. All objectively top notch.
But alright I respect your personal taste 

[Vainamoinen]

I played Curse of Monkey Island in 2000 on my first PC, because stupid LucasArts wouldn't port the game to my Amiga

 

No, wait, maybe a less abrasive approach would be great for this discussion. 

 

I hadn't started to learn about art and style, so I basically took it all in uncritically. It was a great game! It had great music and the German voiceover was good too. It wasn't until much later that I started to question some of the stylistic and narrative choices in the game. Like making Guybrush a lanky, possibly even elegant pirate and of course making Elaine a literal gold statue with eyes bigger than my fist.

 

Escape didn't tickle my fancy as much, it's true, but its individual style at least prevented a repeat performance of the irks that I had with Curse.

 

 

On 5/8/2023 at 2:55 PM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

If this forum would allow me to give your post a thumbs down, I would do so.

 

Grim Fandango is near the pinnacle of anything LucasArts ever did. Converting it (or Escape for that matter) into 2D would not make them better games. 

 

Grim Fandango definitely is near or at the pinnacle of anything LucasArts ever did.

But with the exception of polygonal main characters and pre-rendered backgrounds, technically it was just about as much 2D as its point & click predecessors. What's proposed here is literally in the title. It's not about "making EMI 2D". It's about "making EMI with CMI graphics". But that means stamping Bill Tiller's individual style on the sequel, or worse, on more games in LucasArt's legacy.

I'm not opposed to remaking, rebooting, remastering Grim Fandango properly, not at all (tank controls and flip through inventory were a mistake in my opinion). But it should be remade in the originally intended style as clearly laid out in the breathtaking concept art by Peter Chan. The game just didn't succeed in communicating all those suggested moods, the grit, the wide open spaces, the stylistic references, the vertigo inducing perspectives, the distorted architecture. If you have to look at the concept art to understand how it was originally meant, something went wrong from concept to execution.

What I never understood, particularly as we were gearing up towards the Return to Monkey Island release last year, is this weird and worrying fan obsession with CMI's graphics culminating in sometimes aggressive demands to model sequels after "that style".

 

Bill Tiller is great! CMI's artwork is great!

 

But it has no business in Grim Fandango. It has no business in Escape or Return.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Vainamoinen

[Lagomorph01]

I don't think the original poster wants Grim Fandango to be made in Bill Tiller's style, just Escape from Monkey Island.

My two cents, I'm replaying EMI as we speak, and I think there is so much more that's wrong with the game than just the art style. It actually barely feels Monkey Island-like to me. The humour is just wrong, Guybrush is turned into a real buffoon of a character by the dialogue alone, and the plot is way too convoluted and filled with plot holes.

 

Also, during this playthrough it's clear to me that the game had a much smaller budget than CMI or Grim Fandango, probably because LucasArts was shifting away from point click adventures. You'll notice the cracks if you look carefully, from the reused music all around, to the awful texturing in some of the backgrounds and the reusing of character models. Also the cutscenes are terrible. They feature close ups on some very bad texturing (Grim Fandango at least blurred those so it wouldn't be as noticable), and some of the cut scene shots are made in engine, which makes me wonder why they included them in cutscenes to begin with.

The most positive thing I can say about it, is that in the light of the 'revelation of ReMI'...

 

...it now clicks as the wonkiest adventure Guybrush ever came up with in an amusement park. And I actually enjoy it more because of that point of view.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Lagomorph01

[ThunderPeel2001]

14 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

What's proposed here is literally in the title.

Ironically, the title wasn’t actually written by the OP, it was written by Remi. The OP “hates all 3D” and Grim Fandango's "biggest problem is [the] 3D graphics". The hatred of everything 3D is a common refrain from certain LucasArts fans. They insist that 2D is better in all regards. 

It’s a silly POV because Grim Fandango is a masterpiece. (And the remaster literally added point and click controls, so what more do you want?) Plus, I think Grim Fandango looked great in 3D for the most part. (Sure there’s still some things I would change, even in the Remaster (the cheap “X” fingers, for example).)

 

Could you clarify what you mean when you say you’re not opposed to it being remastered “properly”?

 

I LOVE Peter Chan’s artwork, and would by so happy to see a Psychonauts 2 level of 3D detail and fidelity added to Grim Fandango, but the current Remaster does a mostly brilliant job… And I’m not sure that beautiful level of detail seen in Psychonauts 2 would add that much to the story/experience of Grim Fandango (although I wouldn’t be adverse to seeing it realised!). 

 

Edited May 11, 2023 by ThunderPeel2001

[danielalbu]

13 hours ago, Lagomorph01 said:

I don't think the original poster wants Grim Fandango to be made in Bill Tiller's style, just Escape from Monkey Island.

My two cents, I'm replaying EMI as we speak, and I think there is so much more that's wrong with the game than just the art style. It actually barely feels Monkey Island-like to me. The humour is just wrong, Guybrush is turned into a real buffoon of a character by the dialogue alone, and the plot is way too convoluted and filled with plot holes.

 

Also, during this playthrough it's clear to me that the game had a much smaller budget than CMI or Grim Fandango, probably because LucasArts was shifting away from point click adventures. You'll notice the cracks if you look carefully, from the reused music all around, to the awful texturing in some of the backgrounds and the reusing of character models. Also the cutscenes are terrible. They feature close ups on some very bad texturing (Grim Fandango at least blurred those so it wouldn't be as noticable), and some of the cut scene shots are made in engine, which makes me wonder why they included them in cutscenes to begin with.

The most positive thing I can say about it, is that in the light of the 'revelation of ReMI'...

  Reveal hidden contents

...it now clicks as the wonkiest adventure Guybrush ever came up with in an amusement park. And I actually enjoy it more because of that point of view.

 

I recently played Escape from Monkey Island after a couple of decades of not playing it.

I have to say that it was better than I remembered, but I've realized that the problem with EMI is not that it's a bad game.

It's just a bad Monkey Island game.

 

It has its moments and I can even look past the graphics.

But it's just not "Monkey Island" material.

[Vainamoinen]

10 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Could you clarify what you mean when you say you’re not opposed to it being remastered “properly”?

 

I had a whole paragraph about that up there and eventually I just did not open that can of worms. There are enough cans of worms opened here I guess. Here, let me put it this way.

 

Back when Grim Fandango re-released, gog.com held an art contest. The deadline was brutal. I had a weekend. I opted for a messy technique with graphite dust and just went at it. I took a few minutes in photoshop to apply a brown tint. This was the result: 

 

As gog summarily ignored the effort, I posted the artwork on my favorite art forum. One of the members jokingly asked: "Is that old school or remastered?".

 

I answered: "Ten hours old school and then five minutes for the Remaster. Just like the game.".

[Rum Rogers]

I never really understood the hatred towards pre-rendered backgrounds as well.

First: A pre-rendered background from a 3D environment is a 2D background. I understand it's a different take on the art than hand drawn images, but it's still 2D.

Second: With EMI in mind, I appreciate there's tons of detail getting lost in the process, but this doesn't apply to Grim Fandango at all. It's detailed, realistic, art deco goodness.

But back to EMI again, it was the last high budget adventure game I remember and it's a great adventure game, just not a great Monkey Island game (as I always say and as has been said here already). It's such a shame because if the reception took into account the fact that after all it's a great adventure game on its own, we might have had more from LucasArts or at least their interest in the genre would have lasted longer.

Anyway, the bottom line is EMI gets bashed far, far more than it deserves.

Over and out.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Rum Rogers

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 hours ago, Vainamoinen said:

I answered: "Ten hours old school and then five minutes for the Remaster. Just like the game.".

 

Yikes! I thought *I* was hard on the Remaster I have a list of issues that I wish the Remaster had addressed, but I still think it's an improvement overall. You can't offend me, I'd genuinely like to hear your issues with the RM given how much mental energy and time I put into Remastering the game before Double Fine did. 

[Nfsfan83]

Writing my post about 3D graphics in EMI, I was not going to write anything about the Grim (that's not my type of game and that's it) I love 2D graphics (in adventures games or best platform games like Alladin) from my childhood when I grew up with best animation from Disney (Duck Tales and many movies) so Monkey Island in 2D for me are great games. Broken Sword 1 and 2, Toonstruck, Discworld 2, and of course COMI - best 2D graphics in SVGA. Peace

 

Bill Tiller game, imagine Escape in this graphics style...

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Nfsfan83

[Gins]

28 minutes ago, Nfsfan83 said:

Writing my post about 3D graphics in EMI, I was not going to write anything about the Grim (that's not my type of game and that's it) I love 2D graphics (in adventures games or best platform games like Alladin) from my childhood when I grew up with best animation from Disney (Duck Tales and many movies) so Monkey Island in 2D for me are great games. Broken Sword 1 and 2, Toonstruck, Discworld 2, and of course COMI - best 2D graphics in SVGA. Peace

 

Bill Tiller game, imagine Escape in this graphics style...

 

 

 

I loved Kaptain Brawe ❤️

[Rum Rogers]

2 hours ago, Nfsfan83 said:

Writing my post about 3D graphics in EMI, I was not going to write anything about the Grim (that's not my type of game and that's it) I love 2D graphics (in adventures games or best platform games like Alladin) from my childhood when I grew up with best animation from Disney (Duck Tales and many movies) so Monkey Island in 2D for me are great games. Broken Sword 1 and 2, Toonstruck, Discworld 2, and of course COMI - best 2D graphics in SVGA. Peace

 

Bill Tiller game, imagine Escape in this graphics style...

 

 

 

Kaptain Brawe was really cool, but it's not a Bill Tiller game. You might be referring to the failed Kickstarter campaign for Kaptain Brawe 2, which indeed would have had Bill Tiller on board but never happened.

[Nfsfan83]

29 minutes ago, Rum Rogers said:

 

Kaptain Brawe was really cool, but it's not a Bill Tiller game. You might be referring to the failed Kickstarter campaign for Kaptain Brawe 2, which indeed would have had Bill Tiller on board but never happened.

Wow , You have right !!! I always think that Brawe 1 was made by Bill Tiller team but

for sure Ghost Pirates of Vooju Island is Bill Tiller game and have feeling of TCOMI art styl !!!

 

http://www.billtillerart.com/pirateslife

 

And this: I love it !!! I know it is also in 3D but imagine it in classic 2D art

 

http://www.billtillerart.com/duke-grabowski-mighty-swashbuckler

 

Return of Monkey Island should look like this 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by Nfsfan83