C'jais Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 What's your take on this? Is it a result of religious indoctrination? A cruel and brutal way of taking someone's life? A question of tradition? Only appliable to rape victims? Is it a worse toll on the woman to give birth to an unwanted child, than to have it aborted? What have the man got to say in this matter? Is it fair to let the child be born to a poor, homeless mother with no income? Does pre-marital sex play an important role? And finally: Who do you think is generally more pro abortion? Women or Men? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Women are usually more pro abortion. I think its wrong no matter what the circumstances. I would never make my wife have an abortion.(When I get married) And yes i do think premarital sex has a lot to do with it. They have sex before marriage and then when the girl gets pregnant, Oh lets find the easy way out and have an abortion....it's not much, just ending a human life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skate Boy Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 A baby is still a living breathing human. I think it's wrong to kill it because you don't want to deal with it. You can't just go out in the street and murder some one because you don't want to deal with them. Abortion is murder no matter what. I think it's wrong. But that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 no its against my beleifs to kill someone....even if its before there born..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NerfYoda Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I completely support a womans right to choose. IMO (and according to Jewish law) the fetus isnt considered a human until the head and shoulders exit the birth canal. I'm also a member of the population control camp. People need to have less kids, and if abortion helps so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiRtY $oUtH™ Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 i agree...killing is killing, and then they try to say that its technically not a human. Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Well technically they'd kill it before it had any nerves... But it's only appliable if the birth could kill the baby(what's worse,a painful death or unfelt death?)or if the birth could kill the mother and the baby. And yes, the dad should have a say in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Interesting topic... I hope we can all keep it flame-free I myself am pro-choice; I believe that women should be able to decide what they do with their own bodies, whether that be to keep a baby or have an abortion... It's up to them. That does not necessarily mean that I will always agree with their reasons for doing so, whichever path they choose, but in all honesty, is it really any of my business if that choice does not affect me in any way? I personally don't think so, which is why I hold the opinion that I do. There is no definite point at which a baby changes from being a simple cluster of cells to being a conscious human being - that change is part of an ongoing process, and never stops throughout our lives, so I don't think that you can truly put a reliable cut-off point on when abortion should and should not be medically allowed... I do think that it should always be done before the baby's nerve system is developed enough for it to feel any pain, though, but I admit I'm not sure whether we know when this stage of developement occurs or not. I also think that women are usually more pro-choice, for what I see as obvious reasons. I'll probably have a fair bit more to say on this, but I'm a little tired right now, and don't feel up to debating at full steam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 This is about the toughest issue in America today... a lot of people say it should be illegal and should never happen, but then those same people say women should be able to do it in cases of rape and incest. But then, how would the courts decide if a woman was raped or if she was consenting but just didn't expect to get pregnant so she decided to say she was raped to get an abortion? I'm a Catholic, which means I uphold the Pope's doctrine of life. I do believe that life begins at conception and I would never, ever encourage a woman to get an abortion. And I stress again never. I'm not pro-abortion or even pro-choice because I believe that one choice is wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm anti-criminalization. I believe that if abortions were made illegal they would still happen, and that, in the climate of our criminal justice system in America, poor and minority women would get prosecuted for having an abortion more often than white women of "higher classes." Also, if abortions were made illegal, it would actually become harder to talk some women out of it. My cousin was considering an abortion ten years ago, and she brought it up with her aunts (including my mom) and grandma and they basically talked her out of it. Now would she have dared to come to talk to us about that if abortions were illegal? What if she had decided to go through with it and we all knew that she was pregnant, and all knew what it meant that she no longer was? No, she wouldn't've come talked to the people who talked her out of it. She would have been afraid that one of them would have turned her in on the chance that their arguments weren't convincing and that she would have gone to get an abortion anyway. Nobody to talk her out of it and one of my favorite cousins wouldn't be alive today. This also goes for priests. I'm sure many Catholic women contemplating abortions go to their priests, and many priests probably save their babies from an abortion doctor's machines. Project Rachel helps women who have had an abortion to cope with the physical and emotional aftermath in a religious and forgiving environment. Project Rachel would be gone if abortions were made illegal, because there is no statute of limitation on murder. And yes, it would have to be murder if abortions were made illegal. A lot of Republicans say they would only prosecute the doctors. Can't do that. At its heart, it would be a contract killing. You cannot say you would ignore the crime of the woman if abortions were illegal. I think that this is an issue that needs to be dealt with morally and not politically. This is an issue that is older than time, and no laws imposed in this or any nation will fix the problem. I've read that 80% of women have tried to abort their own pregnancies before going to a doctor. We need to change the way people look at the unborn child, need to make them respect its life. Only by a change of outlook can any progress on this issue be accomplished. We also need to support programs that help single and poor mothers, as well as adoption agencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NinjaGaiden_ Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 abortion is wrong no matter how you look at it end of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted November 9, 2002 Author Share Posted November 9, 2002 If abortion is murder, you have to define what "taking a human life" is - and to do that, you need to define what "human" is. I prefer the biological explanation: Let's say I take a blood sample of you - each cell has the DNA provided to make a new human being. Now, if I were to destroy those blood cells, I'd be destroying the ability to make new life - I'd be destroying cells. The same can be said about egg cells - if I were to destroy them, I'd be halting the advancement of human life. But are your cells what makes you human? At the moment of conception, the embryo is no more advanced than a cell from your finger nail - and it holds the same genetic information as one, except it has been mixed with another person. The embryo is unable to think or experience sensations - it isn't human in my book. It's ok to waste millions of sperm cells (millions of men do it every day), and likewise it is alright to waste egg cells (millions of women do it every day). If put side by side, it is still alright to destroy these cells. The moment that these cells interact however, nothing magical or holy happens - the cells exchange genes, and they change to a single cell, but nothing else happens. Via mitosis, this cell duplicates itself - but it's still just cells we're talking about, just as if we were talking about 50 sperm and egg cells for example. If you want to assume that something extraordinarily holy or divine happens at that instant, then go right ahead, but we're still talking about something as natural as taking a leak or bending a knee. If I kill 37 cells I'm a murderer, if I cut off a microscopic amount of tissue I'm a doctor. I'll say that when a child is born, it's able to sense and experience the outside world, think, and support itself without a womb. Whatever your opinion is, we're far too many people already on this planet. Reproductive cloning or having far too much sex without protection and no abortion isn't going to lessen this problem. You may think I'm a cold hearted killer, but know this: I'd rather have women complete the pregnancy and adopt their child to someone who can't have one - unfortunately, women develop quite a bond with the child during the pregnancy, and it's often hard to let go, even though it's more practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt-Liell Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 No way! its cruel and every human has the right to live provided they didnt do something terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-s/<itzo- Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 nay in my heart but yay in some extent. i mean it's not my baby let the mother do what she wants with her baby. you gotta put your feet in their shoes. especially those who gets pregnant in an early age. i can undertand what they are going through. they are not mature enough to handle that kinda responsibility. plus who i'm i to judge, i don't want to be one of those people who go as far as killing the doctors, setting bombs and what knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Even though I try stay out of the controvercy I believe in pro choice. Almost all the problems in this world can be traced to overpopulation. War, hunger, poverty, you name it. Overpopulation plays a big part. To avoid the abortion thing all together people just need to not get pregnant. Whether it be abstenance (sp?), or any form of safe sex that works. But if unwanted pregnancy does happen, the parents, mostly the mother, should be able to choose what to do. Pregnancy is hard on a woman. A huge burden. And abortion is also merciful to the baby that would grow up in poverty, abuse, hunger, or any other kind of misery. Death is better than misery. For both sides. For people who really want kids, they should only have one. World population must be reduced. And its not like abortion is painful to the fetus. Hey if I was aborted, oh well. I wouldnt know Im missing anything. And thered be plenty of other people out there whod turn out better than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kstar__2 Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 i don't think it is my right to judge those who do it, but if you have a baby, you cannot go saying halfway there "ow i don't want it anymore" (this is different with rape, than i fully understand it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I've written a number of papers on this topic...couldn't find all of them, but here's a little snippet from one of them. My personal beliefs on the topic of abortion have gotten me some strong opposition. I’m pro-life all the way, except for extreme circumstances. I do not oppose abortion out of any religious standpoints since I myself am far from pious. (But I'm working on it). Rather, my pro-life motivation stems from my upbringing and my own conclusions from my wide and varied studies on the subject. Many of my friends are pro-choice and that is understandable, since I live in New York, which is the heart of liberalness. But I find the arguments for abortion specious and wholly heartless. First off, the statement that abortion is a good thing because it is a way of controlling world population demonstrates how much value for human life has depreciated. We see abortion as a means of making sure we don’t overpopulate. Preposterous. That's like equating ourselves to animals. We kill them off in a flash, just to control population. Then there are the arguments that state that the developing embryo is not human, just mere tissue that is growing. This I find especially loathsome in its reasoning. The embryo is in the process of becoming a human being. It will not grow to become a cow, a pig or any other animal. It will grow into a living, breathing human baby. Terminating it before it has the chance to develop into one is a horrendous thing to do. And then there is the issue of increased promiscuity. Women who are sexually promiscuous and don’t care how many times they get pregnant see abortion as a way out of the problem of raising a child. This just demonstrates how far we have come along as a society. When women can have sex and not deal with the consequences of their actions. In my opinion, if you have sex, you must be able to deal with the consequences of it. Only in rare, very isolated cases must abortion be allowed. If the mother’s life is in severe danger, an abortion should be an option, but the decision should be up to the mother. In cases of rape and incest, abortion is an option as well, but even so, it is not the child’s fault that the mother was raped, so why should it have to pay for the consequences of something it had no part in? Then you have that whole disgusting practice of taking live fetuses, fresh from being aborted, and literally ripping them apart for research. As I read this as I was researching, I was appalled. Ever since I heard that babies were being killed right in their mother’s womb I’ve been ardently against abortion, but after reading about what happens after the abortion has been done, I’m so much more against it now. Pro-choice advocates and supporters of research may condone it, saying there is some marginal benefit. I for one, will not. I cannot and will not support the butchering and killing of innocent human lives who are not even given a chance to live and breathe on their own, thanks to the politics and skewed ethics and morals of our nation. Abortion is an issue that will continue to be a topic of much heated debate for many years to come. It is not something that will just disappear. It tests the grounds of so many people’s beliefs and morals that there will probably always be conflicting opinions on it. We can only hope that our society will be able to drag itself out of its moral and ethical quagmire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I am for Abortion. It is not simple to conclude if you do or don't agree with it, but in the end I do agree that it should be carried out in certain circumstances. In this day and age, we all know that the number of pregnancies, especially among teenagers, is constantly on the increase. Things are only getting worse, where I live anyway, and it is resulting in teenage single parents unable to support there children, of whom they did not necessarily want. Is it fair to say that these people should be put through this, and then sentanced when something happens to the child after it is born? I believe that people should have the choice to keep their baby or not. Nowadays, without Abortion, things will only get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Darklighter tsk,tsk,tsk if you dont want the baby then you shouldnt...well...do it...There is a reaction for everything you do and if you dont want the baby atleast you could but it up or something EVERYONE deserves a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Originally posted by Tyrion (what's worse,a painful death or unfelt death?) When it comes down to it, its STILL DEATH. Abortion is wrong, I dont even think i'll try to post in this thread because i know many people will post saying stuff like "If its not alive how can you kill it?" The Second the Sprum his the Egg it becomes a living Organ, there for it lives. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 GOOD SAY ZDawg I AGREE WITH YOU 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% if you think the washington DC sniper is wrong for killing people WELL SO IS Abortion in a way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Originally posted by ZDawg When it comes down to it, its STILL DEATH. Yes, but y'know, there are different ways to die..I am sure the baby would love to have a nice,quick,painless one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kjølen Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Nay! Definatly, the moment the egg is fertalized, a sould is born, thats what i was taught. Think how sad it would be to kill a soul 2 months into its life. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Gnarly Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I am sure the baby would love to have a nice,quick,painless one... (IM ALSO SURE THE BABY WOULD LIKE TO LIVE ITS LIFE IT COULD LIVE AND ONE DAY....CURE CANCER FOR ALL WE KNOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Nine Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I'm pretty sure the baby would like a shot at life even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elijah Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 Agreed, Death is not an Option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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