Kurgan Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I just got Star Wars: Battlefront for the PC today (about 3 hours ago in fact), and while it's so far not a bad game, IMHO, it's a little underwhelming so far. Granted, I have only played "instant action" on Endor and the first three Single Player missions on Galactic Civil War. I've also never played BF1942, so these impressions are from a complete n00b. Read on if you wish... First off, the game has some nice graphics. There's very little pop-up and there is a "fuzz effect" in the distance that gives it a certain feel, that's hard to describe. Almost like you're in a movie, rather than in a traditional game. There are videos of ships flying around in the sky (sadly I wished I could shoot them down but they are just videos) giving the world a "big" feel to it. However, that said, the models appear a bit blocky, I imagine this was done to save system resources for the many players in-game. A major complaint I have about the game so far is the "consoley" feel to it. This game is aimed primarily at the console market, with the PS2 version "leading the pack." The manual and box are sparse with info, since the learning curve of the game (so far) is pretty low. While you're in a big battle, it's basically a FPS/third person shooter where you capture checkpoints, as if you were playing "Domination" in Unreal Tournament, with some vehicles and some AI running around. I had problems with the control setup menu assigning my mouse buttons to other functions. Basically it seemed like I could only re-map mouse buttons 1 & 2 to anything. So I had to get used to the default controls instead, which, after a time, were adequate. Getting back to of AI, it's horrible! Lots of soldiers will crouch in front of solid objects and fire at enemies that are far away (attempt to shoot through the solid object they are in front of). The Jedi (Vader & Luke) look awesome, but they wander around or just stand there blocking blaster shots (including behind their backs), instead of wrecking havoc as I dreamed they would when I read about them on the web. : ( This game also brought back memories of Rainbow 6, a game where I (not being a brilliant military tactician at all) would slop my way through SP mission planning with little thought as to how to win, and yet, even without my help, my team would triumph. This happened when I got a phone call during one mission and I took a break. When I came back my team had won, easily. That's pretty amazing, considering how bad the AI seems to act when I'm around! I wanted to call in airstrikes against the Jedi, but I didn't know how yet, so that's something I'll have to look up. The consoley feel really shows with regards to the camera movements. The camera has an odd "floaty" feel that is hard to describe, but a big shock to a PC FPS player like me who is used to tight, responsive mouse aiming. You sort of float around towards your targets. Battles consist of either two people running past each other shooting dozens of shots and all missing, or just standing there firing away at each other from close range until one of you dies (or, as commonly happened to me the AI had their back to me the entire time and I just emptied my gun into them and they died without putting up any fight whatsoever... this was on medium difficulty). When you kill an infantry soldier they either drop a bacta tank or an ammo pack. No picking up of dropped enemy weapons to use them. I do like how you can get into ANY vehicle, regardless of what team you're on. Your character does a series of rapid somersaults and flips when you die, which is sort of funny at first, but starts to get old after about the 10th time, especially when it was from a badly timed grenade toss by your own team. I like how you can switch from third to first person on the fly, and you can do that as well with vehicles, but the controls/camera are somewhat odd feeling, as if you don't fully have control over your character and need to "fight" him to get him to go where you want him (especially true of some of the vehicles). I suppose this is due to the console model of optimizing the movement for analog sticks on a gamepad. Playing with keys+mouse it just feels off from the FPS games (like JA & JK2) I'm used to playing. Once you get past that it's okay though. I was thrilled to get into a Speeder Bike on Endor, but then I noticed the crappy camera (it feels like it's zoomed too much, and too low), and the fact that the map was cluttered with every manner of obstacle and view obstructing vegetation imaginable, so that trips with the Speeder were painfully short (I crashed and exploding into a grass hut, then a small torch, etc.). Moving around in short hops just isn't the same as blazing along like in Jedi Academy. I remember in JA Siege how I was unhappy that I couldn't ride out in the open but had to dodge through the maze of Tatooine homes on Siege_Desert, but that was infinitely more fun than here where you basically have to move, stop, move, stop, etc. Controlling the AT-ST, likewise got my blood pumping, until I realized how slow and clumsy it was. Okay, for the sake of balance, I thought to myself, this is okay. But I remember how simple and fun it was to control the AT-ST in JA Siege and this is nothing like it. Granted, the Imperials get a bunch of them, but still. The Camera is again set at an odd angle that doesn't give you much room to see what you're doing and aim while moving, etc. Again, I'll compare it to Jedi Academy and say "why couldn't they have done it THAT way?" Controlling a Skiff on Tatooine with multiple gunners was cool, but I wished that I could actually move around on the deck and control the guns, instead of being rooted into the "slot" of either driver, or one of the three gunners (with very limited firing arcs). And even then the guns take several shots to kill even unarmored foes. The atmosphere in the game is great. You really feel like you're in a Star Wars battle. All the sights and sounds are right. The characters are equipped right (although some may be upset about there being Darktroopers all over the place since Kyle Katarn destroyed them all, remember?) and look the part. However there seems to be a lack of depth. All you're really doing is capturing "command points" like UT's domination, until you've got them all, then you wait for a 20 second (or whatever) count and you win the map. Little things that bugged me are the fact that while you can toss grenades, you can't control how far you toss them, and they often will bounce off targets and not explode where you want them to. Likewise all the weapons seem incredibly underpowered. Even blaster cannons take multiple hits to kill a foe who isn't even wearing armor (I'm thinking Rebels here). I like how you can zoom in with just about every weapon. The classes are the same from map to map with just skin changes (often several classes share the same skin, only with a different weapon). Another thing that bugged me were the cutscenes. I know that this game was being marketed to coincide with the release of the Star Wars DVD's, but c'mon. The cutscenes are basically full frame clips ripped straight from the Trilogy DVD's with a photoshop filter run over them so they look all blurry and dark. It would have been nice to see some game engine cutscenes or something, rather than the same recycled Star Wars clips (even if they look great by video game standards). The logic was probably that since these are the "Star Wars Movie Battles" that the movie clips would be appropriate, however considering that the movies focus on the main characters, the vast majority of which are nowhere to be seen in the game (the few that are AI Jedi, and you only get one per team anyway under special conditions), it just seems lazy. If I wanted to watch the SW Trilogy I could just watch my DVD's. I know these are just random thoughts and I haven't given the game a full run through to judge it, and there's probably some stuff I'm missing, but so far I don't think it's shaping up to be worth all the hype. I do have a sneaking suspicion that the focus was on multiplayer though and perhaps that will be more fun with good ping and people who know what they're doing. My point isn't to write a full review, there are already dozens of those posted all over the 'net and in magazines. I'm just expressing one LFNer's opinion of this anticipated new game after a little bit of playing. I just have a feeling they cut a few corners to get this out in time to sell it alongside the DVD boxset. Maybe I'm being unfair. This feels more like an arcade game for casual gamer Star Wars fans, rather than what I imagined it to be (a dedicated "Jedi Academy Siege" type game that was bigger and better in every way). I bet it could be a lot of fun online, but it just seems to lack the depth I was expecting. Anyway, I could be off, maybe it'll grow on me more after I've played through everything. My advice if you're thinking of getting this game, give the Demo a whirl if you can or play your friend's copy. 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TK-8252 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I agree... kinda. It has a "rushed" feeling (to make the September 21st deadline with the DVD's), but overall it's way more fun than Jedi Academy. Just wait for some patches, modding, and a boost in the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebbers Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 after reading that...i have one conclusion....you think way too much into the game and you dont play for fun....your not a critic for a game review magazine so dont think too hard on it....just play and have fun....sorry but thats my view on games... yes i agree with the bad camera angles and lack of info in the box and in the manual...and the grenade death does get old/annoying after a while....when your flying any type of aircraft everything becomes a hazard threat, even in reality a torch could mean life or death so could a friggin bird! and the game is more based on MP...but i still enjoy playing it because i dont think so indepth about it and pick out every little flaw or mistake such as the dark troopers and kyle killing them...maybe there was a datapad laying around sombody found and taught the ways...who knows and who cares? and the lack of being a jedi in BF...why not just play JO or JA? play the game and dont think about it...if your like Kurgan i cant stop you from making your decisions about how bad, blocky, or 'not in the same time period' characters are.... i am jebbers and this is my response to Kurgan...dont hate me but, this is my opinion....Kurgan i apoligize again if i made you mad or hate me but, just play and dont think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I know what you're saying, jebbers, but - JKII and JA made me *feel* like a Jedi, doing Jedi stuff in a SW world. BF makes me feel like another MP guy chasing other MP guys who look like SW guys using SW weapons in SW-ish environs. I'm not too hard on the game because it has just proven out to me that I *really* don't like MP ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--ZeeMan-- Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 no i completely agree with kurgan. bf has several nice touches to it, but right now mp action sucks seriously, and flying the vehicles is a pain to learn, and using the speeders on endor and other levels is downright a pain because of the graphics change. overall, it has potentially, but right now i feel it's highly overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 I agree. As for the airstrike, it sucks. Became a scout (sniper), switch your secondary weapon from grenade to recon droid. Activate secondary attack. You then get a free-floating camera. You can shoot at people with it, but it dies in 1 hit. If you secondary attack, a 5 second countdown starts, and when it reaches zero, an airstrike comes down on top of the droid, destroying it, and rarely destroying whatever is around it. The killzone is like.... 1 square foot, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Originally posted by jebbers after reading that...i have one conclusion....you think way too much into the game and you dont play for fun....your not a critic for a game review magazine so dont think too hard on it....just play and have fun....sorry but thats my view on games... You're wrong there, I do play for fun. But that doesn't mean I can't criticize a game, does it? I said I wasn't intent on making a review, just giving my impressions, etc. There are things I like about this game and things I don't like, I was just sharing them. You don't have to agree by any means. I have had fun so far, but some things have bugged me and I share them. yes i agree with the bad camera angles and lack of info in the box and in the manual...and the grenade death does get old/annoying after a while....when your flying any type of aircraft everything becomes a hazard threat, even in reality a torch could mean life or death so could a friggin bird! Yeah, it's a nitpick, like the "invincible cardboard packing crates you can hide behind" in so many FPS games. It's just funny that something made of grass or straw causes a big metal vehicle to explode in flames. ; ) and the game is more based on MP...but i still enjoy playing it because i dont think so indepth about it and pick out every little flaw or mistake such as the dark troopers and kyle killing them... I do the same thing with every new game I play. After I have learned everything I make up my mind whether it's a game I want to keep playing or stop playing and do something else. Analyzing a game a person plays is something I do naturally. The bit of trivia about the Darktroopers was meant to be a humorous touch, but I did see people bitching about that long before the game came out, even. ; ) Hey, you're free to have your opinion as much as you want bro and I'm glad to hear it. It's like when I played Jedi Power Battles, I bashed it as the worst Star Wars game I'd ever played, yet some people defended it and said how it was all about the fun, etc. So each to his own. maybe there was a datapad laying around sombody found and taught the ways...who knows and who cares? and the lack of being a jedi in BF...why not just play JO or JA? I do. I just brought up that they tease you by having the Jedi you can't control. I want to be an Ewok too, but I can't. Oh well. Dreams man, dreams! If modding is big with this game, who knows what will happen... I said the same thing about JA and not being able to get inside certain vehicles that are lying around. play the game and dont think about it...if your like Kurgan i cant stop you from making your decisions about how bad, blocky, or 'not in the same time period' characters are.... The time period thing isn't a game-breaking issue for me, just an observation. These are observations, not "omg this game is horrible don't buy it because of these imperfections." Just like when I got the Star Wars DVD's, I pointed out things I noticed about them, just because I thought they were interesting and maybe other people would like to hear about them or add their own stuff. Or maybe they would come up to me and say I'm wrong. That's fine too. ; ) i am jebbers and this is my response to Kurgan...dont hate me but, this is my opinion....Kurgan i apoligize again if i made you mad or hate me but, just play and dont think... No big deal, you didn't make me mad by saying you think I'm wrong. Remember we all have opinions. I even admitted I might be way off base since I have only had the game for a day! But playing a game and not thinking? Ha! Maybe in a week or so. ; ) If you mean the learning curve in the game, no I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily. It's an arcade style game, and reminds me a lot of Star Wars Trilogy Arcade (with freedom of movement). Basically hold your control points and blow up everything else. It's a fine idea for an FPS, I just wish the controls and cameras were better, or at least customizable so they could be tighter like a traditional FPS. Played through some of the Clone battles. Man I wish Lucas had showed us that much of the Geonosis battle in the movies! Pretty cool, and here the bad AI is more realistic because the Droids were such push-overs in the prequels, so it fit better. I also felt sorry for that poor lonely astromech droid puttering around on the battlefield, so I had to line him up in my sights a few times, just 'cause... PS: I did install the patch, but it's a small one that only fixes a couple of MP issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Originally posted by RpTheHotrod I agree. As for the airstrike, it sucks. Became a scout (sniper), switch your secondary weapon from grenade to recon droid. Activate secondary attack. You then get a free-floating camera. You can shoot at people with it, but it dies in 1 hit. If you secondary attack, a 5 second countdown starts, and when it reaches zero, an airstrike comes down on top of the droid, destroying it, and rarely destroying whatever is around it. The killzone is like.... 1 square foot, or something. Bummer. I really expected the Jedi to be an uber threat, like Sauron attacking the legions of the Last Alliance in Lord of the Rings or something (cutting through ranks like nothing), but no, instead they just act kinda like Admin Mod kiddies, occasionally pwn1ng somebody, and mostly just standing around trying to look "cool." I spent about 5 minutes or so trying to kill Vader with various weapons, but he just stood there with his back to me blocking everything. Arrghh... If they patch anything, I hope they patch the AI, it really could use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I really dont think hardcore FPS gamers will like BF at all, its just get a squad together, hop on a speeder and fry some foes ! Im usually not a MP gamer, or into shooters much, but I just played BF at a Lan - great fun with friends... at the end of the day, BF isnt revolutionary or awe inspiring, just a bit of fun with a SW flavour. And the fact that you can stalk ewoks and gungans and take em out makes it very appealing to the likes of me.... also, I want a blood patch, or dismemberment ! No crap about laser cauterizing wounds, gimme the red stuff ! mtfbwya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Wow - this is sounding disappionting. I grew up on PC games, and have always loathed the nonsensical, "floaty" feel to console shooter games, where you're running one way, and your camera gets too easily discombobulated and points another way - it's just silly. One disappointing trend appears to be continuing, and that is with the eye toward being console-friendly, most PC games now have horrible vehicle control, as well as the aforementioned camera control. With a PC game, one has joysticks and such that can be utilized, which make vehicle control very easy. But, sadly, more games are moving away from what has worked well in the past, to a control model that, although perhaps more universally portable, sucks. I guess I'll have to try the demo before I get this game. But from the sounds of it, this is yet another game that has been dumbed down for the masses, extracting any spirit of fun that may have been residing in the now hollow shell of a "game". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 at the end of the day, BF isnt revolutionary or awe inspiring, just a bit of fun with a SW flavour. exactly how i feel. it's a fun and entertaining game. a good way to kill a couple of hours. if you hoping for more than that then you will be disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I'd have to agree with some of what Kurgan said. The graphics are not nice at all, half of the guns just look like bricks with a few more chunky bricks slapped on for effects, and maybe a tube stuck on for good measure. The hero models are the worst models I've seen in any Xbox game ever. The skins look like some cheap stunt double they used. The vehicles are incredibly disappointing, the aircraft are put to shame with the small maps, and when you can't go full speed with them at all because "you are leaving the battlefield!". The only vehicle I liked was the AT-AT. It felt so rewarding stomping to the rebel base on hoth, crushing soldiers and shooting Taun Tauns. The computer AI ran perfectly for me, they don't seem to run around hiding behind block walls at all, they take part in the action and help me get from cover to cover by shooting at where the enemy is. The heros AI is crap though, half the time they stand there doing nothing and then the next they're at the enemy spawn killing about 10 in a few seconds. Then a few seconds later they'll walk into a wall and not move for about 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Well, when i was on Rhen var Harbor, our Luke Skywalker Accompanied us trough the ice caves, clearing the path for us, so we could ultimately capture their main spawnpoint. I also haven't noticed any bad AI with normal bots, either. Except that they keep shooting at the Jedi Heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I bought the game, I played it for a week, and I gave it to my dad because he kinda wanted it. I don't miss it. I really didn't enjoy myself, it felt like nothing but a twitch fest, whoever pulls the triggers faster is the winner. Overall I'd say Battlefront is a waste of 50 bucks. I did not have fun for longer than 30 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Skip this piece of crap and buy Battlefield 1942, its expansions, Battlefield Vietnam, or Joint Operations and its upcoming expansion. Star Wars skins and models are all you're going to be paying 50 bucks for if you get this turd. Man I feel robbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 My question is, apart from potential community improvements through mods and whatnot (and IIRC there is no plan to release tools), is there any reason to think there will be a large Battlefront community in 4 months time? 8 months? A year? If not, I'll probably just wait until it is in the bargain bin for $10. I'd love to try the PC demo. If there was one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomie Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 My question is, apart from potential community improvements through mods and whatnot (and IIRC there is no plan to release tools), is there any reason to think there will be a large Battlefront community in 4 months time? 8 months? A year? Yes, that large community is already there. Though it hasn't reached the fanbase the Jedi Knight series has, it's quickly growing. Very quickly. And everyone that says it's a pile of **** that will waste your money: That's just your opinion. I like it. It's just as with Episode one. Some people hate it, and some don't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightNinja Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Kurgan your post are t00 long , i just read the half of the first half but anyway SW:BF is really nice, much better than GC mod of BF1942 and its the only war based game (shooter) of SW so im really glad with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Originally posted by RpTheHotrod I agree. As for the airstrike, it sucks. True dat. I did a test, camped near an ammo droid and called like 10 orbital strikes. I think i got 1 kill. Its inaccurate as hell, and it does much damage, but on such a small field. Patches it needs. Play it now and then, but now galaxies and some bfv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mex Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 The problem is with modding all those wierd .lvl files. It's impossible to find the files to skin the weapons and trees. It's like a maze in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebbers Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 reguardless of what ever you swampies say about this game being a piece of fecal matter....thats dandy but you cant bring me down...no sir! i like the game and it works for me to kill gungans and ewoks.... i am done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Originally posted by jebbers reguardless of what ever you swampies say about this game being a piece of fecal matter....thats dandy but you cant bring me down...no sir! i like the game and it works for me to kill gungans and ewoks.... Naw - that is like the people who called JKII & JA two of the 'worst games ever'. I'd call it a ~80% game - which means it is a good game, but it is sharing mind-space with some 85 - 90% MP games. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapNColostomy Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Originally posted by Doomie And everyone that says it's a pile of **** that will waste your money: That's just your opinion. I like it. It's just as with Episode one. Some people hate it, and some don't... Ummm...yeah, I know that's my opinion. I said it. So that's a bit of a redundancy. This whole thread is based on opinion. If opinions bother you so much, the internet must suck for you. I notice you aren't telling people that DO like the game "that's just you're opinion." Why's that? Don't they also need to be told what their opinions are by you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK-8252 Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 Orbital Strikes, as they are now, really aren't worth the effort of leaving your player defenseless and managing that fragile little droid into enemy territory. I think it'd be neat if the Imperial Officer could be modded back in, and he could have the Orbital Strike, but it would be called via binoculars, so it's easier to make a target to bombard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 Holy cow, the SP campaign is frustrating. No mid-level save, and your team is completely incompetent. Basically on every mission you have to do EVERYTHING yourself, and pound the orders keys until your fingers bleed. Things started to get annoying about the fourth or fifth mission. Honestly playing Instant Action is much more fun than this so far... Hitting the "hold" command does help a little, because normally the AI will grab the vehicles you need to use and go off and crash them. Or on the missions with starfighters they'll just dogfight forever instead of actually trying to take out command points. But it only seems to work if you are in close vicinty (so hope for a lucky spawn next to a vehicle). I wish the "secondary item" thing could just be a button rather than having to be a toggle (like the Recon droid or concussion grenades, etc). I like being able to bind things to keys. This seems another deliberate holdover from the console versions (having limited buttons on a gamepad). In SP, even though all the AI are incompetent, the enemy wins simply because they begin with more people. So it's up to you to save the day. I suppose they had to make you the "hero" but it's danged annoying when your teamates feel so useless. At least the follow orders, sometimes. This is in contrast to the "instant action" mode which is basically MP but offline with bots, where it's possible to get up, walk away from your computer and return to find your team has won. I don't know why the AI is so horrible in the SP campaign... especially in the "infantry only" missions (Bespin was a very grating experience). Another way this game is consoley is that it seems based on the model of repetative play... keep playing it over and over and over again until you memorize everything (ie: the "one right way to do it") and do it perfectly. Which is cool I guess, but just not something we PC gamers are used to. The manual mentions unlockables, but the readme addendum says that is in error. Saw a lot of servers (all using default options.. ie: friendly fire on, no heroes), but only about 4 of them had decent ping to me (odd). I want to like this game, I really do, but there are so many points where I just wish the developers had done this or that, etc. and made it a better experience. If mod making is possible with this game, the first thing that should be considered is JA style camera/zoom views for the vehicles. By upping the mouse sensitivity the "floaty" effect can be diminished but it still isn't quite like I'm used to with traditional FPS's. Though I still haven't played online yet, I did notice that hosting an internet game I'm only allowed "Max Players: 7" (!) and up to 32 bots. Strange... I thought you could have 32 players? In a "LAN Game" you can select up to 50 (!) and 32 bots. Sorry for the long posts, but I could take my time and write a nice well-thought out, balanced, non-rambling and diplomatically worded essay review, but I don't feel like it. I'm playing this game to let off some steam after work and until I get too tired to stay awake anymore, rattling off my impressions as I lose consciousness... ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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