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God? Do Jedi's have a God?

JinniX

By JinniX
in The Cantina

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JinniX Newbie

JinniX

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I have never seen Jedi's worship anyone or anything before, so do they worship something or someone, or do they just go around helping people and have to learn about everyone elses GODs so that they don't offend anyone?

 

 

Please, do not post directly in the SW forum, chose the sub-forum that's more appropriate next time ;) - coupes.

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Doomie Newbie

Doomie

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Jedi are supposed to be very tolerant and stuff, so it makes sense that jedi-students are allowed to keep believing whatever they believe when they join the Jedi order. As for a common god, in wich all jedi believe... i think that would be the Force.

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Kurgan Newbie

Kurgan

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Originally posted by Jinni Tsurugi

I have never seen Jedi's worship anyone or anything before, so do they worship something or someone, or do they just go around helping people and have to learn about everyone elses GODs so that they don't offend anyone?

 

 

Please, do not post directly in the SW forum, chose the sub-forum that's more appropriate next time ;) - coupes.

 

Now I don't know what every 2 bit EU author has said on the subject but I see it this way:

 

It probably depends on the Jedi in question.

 

The Jedi IS religious, in the sense that they have a "world view." Their world view, their "way of life" is that you use the Force in the service of others. You're guardians of peace and justice. You protect the Republic. You use the Force for knowledge and defense, etc.

 

However, that says nothing about "God."

 

The way I see it, a Jedi may have his own religion, seperate from his duties as a Jedi.

 

One way to look at it: In the real world, most religions require faith. A person need not accept the tenants of any belief system.

 

In Star Wars "The Force" is detectable by scientific instruments and provable in a laboratory. Thus it is fact, and requires no faith to "believe" that it exists, like gravity.

 

HOWEVER, there is no "proof" that the Jedi teachings are more right than say, the Sith teachings. So THAT part (ie: the "HOW" "WHY" and "WHAT" about USING the Force) is religious and requires faith.

 

So a person in the Republic may conclude that the Force exists, but think that both the Jedi and the Sith are nasty, stupid people and believe that you shouldn't use the Force at all, or that you should use it X way.

 

 

 

As to "God" here's some examples of how a Jedi might see it (don't read too much into the titles here, I made them up myself for the sake of ease of examples):

 

1) Atheist Jedi: There is no God. Nothing supernatural exists. The Force obviously exists, and is proven by science. Using the Force the Jedi way is the best for society because it maintains order or it helps me or the people I care about, etc. Remember that "atheist" simply means non-belief in deities, or the lack of belief in god(s). They may still have the "Jedi Order's religion" just as some modern Buddhists are religious and yet have no belief in god(s).

 

2) Theist Jedi: God exists. God created the Force, and wants us to use it for good. God may also work through the Force to test us or help us. Remember that Theist means a belief in the existence of god(s). So this person could be a monotheist (one God) or a polytheist (more than one god).

 

3) Pantheist Jedi: God IS the Force, and the Force is God. Religions that say it isn't are in fact wrong. The Force IS my religion. The Will of the Force thus is equal to the Will of God. OR, as I read in one EU novel Luke believes that "The Force embraces all religions" so it is some kind of ecumenical belief system. Or that could be interpreted as saying it's just science, and doesn't conflict with any religion, thus it doesn't say anyone is right or wrong. It's a neutral force (note that it says "the Force" and not "the Jedi" which are a specific Order).

 

4) Agnostic Jedi: I know the Force exists and I can use it, hopefully for good, but I'm not sure about God. It may be impossible to know anything about God, or it may be possible and I'll keep an open mind, but for now, I really don't know, and may never know.

 

5) Religion "X" Jedi: I follow X (fill in blank) religion (may be combined with Theist Jedi) and it's my personal belief system, that compliments but does not contradict my use of the Force. Just like a person can be a scientist and a person of faith, I can be a Jedi and a person of faith, without "worshipping" the Force.

 

6) Deist Jedi: God exists. God created the Force, just like the rest of the universe then left it to its own devices, while God "hopes that we use it for Good," it's really out of God's hands now. The Force is a natural energy that can be used for good or for evil and it's up to us to determine how things work out (God does not intervene, there is no Providence controlling things, no fate, etc).

 

The fact that certain people "doubt" about the Force itself is not surprising. Imperial propaganda after the Jedi Purges could lead people to wonder if it wasn't just a myth or a hoax that individuals existed who could manipulate unseen forces.

 

It might be comparable to (don't wish to offend anyone here) issues that some people say are nonesense even though mainstream evidence exists for/against them scientifically, like those who are against evolution, or who are think Global Warming doesn't really happen, or those who believe in a flat earth, or who believe in alien visitations, etc.

 

=============================

Out of universe explanation is that "The Force" in Star Wars is a metaphor for religious faith, belief, passion, etc.

 

It can be a force (no pun intended) for good in good hands (like the Jedi) or for evil (the Sith). Obviously it's better to use it for Good, and Good will win in the end.

 

George Lucas believes in "God" (he doesn't go into a huge amount of detail though), and in "Good" and he chose to use the Force to represent that belief as something true in this fictional universe.

 

 

 

Addendum: There are a couple of things to realize about the Force (again just focusing on Lucas's presentation here, rather than what some EU author may have written):

 

Midichlorians are a measure of "force potential" not necessarily the Force itself. They can tell a person "the Will of the Force" according to Qui Gon Jinn.

 

Midichlorians may simply be "messengers."

 

Jinn of course seems to believe in the "living Force" and the Force having a "Will."

 

Is this compatible with what Obi-Wan says about the Force? He calls it an "energy field created by all living things." So it's a kind of "Life Force."

 

How can an "energy field" have a will? Does gravity have a will?

 

Qui Gon says that "without the midichlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force."

 

So which came first, life, the Force, or midichlorians?

 

Qui Gon believes that Anakin "May have been concieved by the Midichlorians." Rather than "concieved by the Force."

 

Interesting.

 

And the Force in the prequels seems to be "chosen" randomly, across species lines (different alien races) and since the Jedi are celibate it's not something passed down through normal biological reproduction.

 

But then in the OT we have "the Force is strong in your family"... "my father has it, I have it, my sister has it..."

 

Mmmmmmm.....[/Yoda]

 

If the Force is of one will, how does one account for the "Dark Side?"

 

Some have tried to say that the Dark/Good (or "Light") side is some kind of Yin/Yang thing, but Lucas's statements about the "balance of the Force" thing with Anakin seems to show that this is not so. Instead the Dark Side is some kind of abberation or corruption (like the concept of the "paraforce" in the early Star Wars scripts, used by the Black Knights of the Sith).

 

The Jedi also have a "Temple." Do they "pray" there, together? Is it for the "Jedi Religion" (the Order's teachings about justice and peace, serving others) or is it kind of an "ecumenical" chapel for the Jedi to share their various beliefs in harmony? (ie: the theistic, deistic, atheist, agnostic Jedi, etc if they choose). Or do the Jedi of the Old Republic "worship the Force" and this is where they do their private worship?

 

 

Non-Jedi in Star Wars use the phrase "May the Force Be With You" as Christians use the phrase "The Lord Be With You." Does this mean they believe in the "Will of the Force" (like Qui Gon)? Is this implying that the Force is God, or is it a way of simply saying "Good luck"/"Hope you succeed", etc? (Like "Godspeed" or "Go with God").

 

Anyway, my 2 dollars and 50 cents. ; )

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JinniX Newbie

JinniX

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Thank you all, and especially thank you Kurgan. That was the longest frigen post I have ever seen. You sure can talk a lot. All I asked was if they worship someone. I didn't ask for an explanation that fit 3 pages on "Word". But thank you anyways. I think now that Jedi have no God. They simply try to help anyone and everyone that they can that is in need. So thank you all.

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Prime Newbie

Prime

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Originally posted by Sabretooth

It may be an order and all, but I think it's like a special forces army.

But they are keepers of the peace, not soldiers. :)

 

In any events, I guess I kind of see the Jedi Order at the end of the prequel era as the Protestants view the Catholics. The Jedi may have one time had more mystical beliefs, but now they are a bit more tied up in the rules and regulations of the "religion."

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dark jedi 8 Newbie

dark jedi 8

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not to sound outta left field but when george lucas wrote in anakin skywalker as being the chosen one to balance the good and evil of the force, what real world, if any, situation was he trying to convey. an example i can think of is: how god sent down jesus to save his people and end years of suffering. is GL implying that the force, or midichlorians, sent anakin as a way of ending the galaxy's 20 year or so suffering under the reign of palpatine? just a thought. i know GL always has a way of interpreting messages from "our world" into the one he created so what do you guy's think?

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Darth Smaug Newbie

Darth Smaug

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The force was unbalanced since there where jedi turning dark...prophecy and legends tell that a chosen one would be extremely strong in the force and use it to bring it into balance....So even Anakin aka the cosen one could be dark sidish..and in the end the prophecy came true and he bring balance to the force in a strange way

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