I'm sorry to say, but Malak is cooler than the three scrubs in this game [SPOILERS]

[Joe89]

Using the force to eat the population of a planet? A broken old brute who is enslaved twice by the same person? A crusty old lady who talks in riddles and actually travels with her main opponent on his whole quest?

 

I will take good old Darth Malak any day.

[tbl1]

Malak is better if you like the traditional sith lord, with: Commanding a normal army and fleet/empire, wanting to rule the galaxy, engaged in a war w/ the republic and the maniacal laugh.

[YertyL]

Using the force to eat the population of a planet? A broken old brute who is enslaved twice by the same person? A crusty old lady who talks in riddles and actually travels with her main opponent on his whole quest?

 

I will take good old Darth Malak any day.

I second that - although the three TSL baddies may appear more "interesting", there are simply too many flaws in the execution of their concpts ... Nihilus being described as ridiculously powerful (killing a planet with the Force - that's like 100+ (?) times the power of any jedi ever seen in any movie)and then appearing ridiculously weak in-game, Sion first cutting off Kreia's Hand and later obeying her without hestitation or question; Kreia's betrayal may be an interesting plot twist, however it (at least for me) raises some questions and frustration - how cool is it to have a master who continually tells you off for everything you do, secretly abuses you for her own goals and in the end trys to kill you?

Malak may be relatively chliche, but he fits his role nicely - and the strength of SW movies or games has never lain in intellectually challenging plot ...

[The Source]

Nihilus being described as ridiculously powerful (killing a planet with the Force - that's like 100+ (?) times the power of any jedi ever seen in any movie)and then appearing ridiculously weak in-game.

Hahaha...

I never thought about that. I must have dismissed Nihilus' background. He should have been your end nemesis, and then he should have kicked the PCs but inches from death. What the hell happened?

[90SK]

Using the force to eat the population of a planet? A broken old brute who is enslaved twice by the same person? A crusty old lady who talks in riddles and actually travels with her main opponent on his whole quest?

 

I will take good old Darth Malak any day.

 

If you like your villains simple, easy to understand and generally cliche, that's fine. Malak was good on the first go-around. But Malaks in every game, and things start to get really dull for people who like using their brain to understand the outline of a plot.

 

He should have been your end nemesis, and then he should have kicked the PCs but inches from death. What the hell happened?

 

They explain why Nihilus becomes weak after trying to feed off the Exile. Perhaps his weakness was a bit too prevalent in the finale, but you can dismiss it if you want.

[TSR]

Malak FTW. although i don't approve of his ideas, they;re were much better executed than TSl. i.e actually blowing a planet up and still being a hard nut, not supposedly killing one off with the force and being about as strong as a drunken tach.

[igyman]

We all know KoTOR 1 had a better executed story than TSL, but as for the villains I say Nihilus and it's a real shame there wasn't much info on him and that he wasn't the final boss. I always thought Sion would go down first, but then it turned out to be Nihilus, how disapointing.

[HerbieZ]

We all know KoTOR 1 had a better executed story than TSL, but as for the villains I say Nihilus and it's a real shame there wasn't much info on him and that he wasn't the final boss. I always thought Sion would go down first, but then it turned out to be Nihilus, how disapointing.

 

Bingo. Most of the story line from Kotor 1, delved into the past giving out lots of background information about Revan and Malak and keeping the player in the loop. Kotor 2 however used FAR too much mysticism, i mean Kreia was enough but they over played it with the mysterious Sion, Nihilus and Atris. These could have been very unique charactors if they did'nt use the "Kreia template" on all three of them.

[igyman]

Mysterious isn't a bad thing, the bad thing is that they've cut out the content that unveils the mystery. Yeah, I've heard all about Obsidian being pressured to finish the game, but that doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of stuff missing due to their rush.

[Prime]

and the maniacal laugh.

This is by far the most important thing.

 

Hahaha...

I never thought about that. I must have dismissed Nihilus' background. He should have been your end nemesis, and then he should have kicked the PCs but inches from death. What the hell happened?

Something to do with being a hole in the force.

[mimic666]

Thread: I am sorry to say, but Darth Malak is cooler than the three scrubs in this game.

Be that as it may, Revan is way the hell "Cooler" than Malak and Nihilus looks better as a "Bad Guy" as well as Sion.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Kreia was ok, but Malak was much better. He's just the typical evil guy who doesn't care about anything. He reminds me of Vader.

Sion is interesting and could've been a very cool villain...if he made more efforts to pursue you...

And Nihilus...yeah...

[HerbieZ]

Something to do with being a hole in the force.

 

So that's what he said.. He was lying

[Lord Foley]

Are you kidding? Malak was so disgustingly cliche it's beyond belief. I like Sion and Kreia better than him, though Nihilus is also a pathetic wimp.

 

Kotor 2 however used FAR too much mysticism, i mean Kreia was enough but they over played it with the mysterious Sion, Nihilus and Atris. These could have been very unique charactors if they did'nt use the "Kreia template" on all three of them.

 

Far too much mysticism? The entire point of the KotOR II plotline is YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON. That's why you have to hunt down the Jedi Masters, that's why you have to reconnect with the Force, that's why you have to accept Kreia as a teacher, that's why you have to confront the Sith Lords, and ultimately, your entire past. If they did what you said, it wouldn't have been the same game at all. I loved the setup of KotOR II's plotline, other than "OMFG Nihilus is like SOOOOO POWERFUL!!! Oh, BTW, you can kill him in 2 seconds lol". That was a big letdown.

[Diego Varen]

Are you kidding? Malak was so disgustingly cliche it's beyond belief. I like Sion and Kreia better than him, though Nihilus is also a pathetic wimp.

 

I have to agree with that statement, except about Malak. I liked Malak, except when he laughed.

[Prime]

Are you kidding? Malak was so disgustingly cliche it's beyond belief.

And yet he was awesome. Crazy, isn't it?

[PoiuyWired]

Well, Malak is "complete" at least:

 

Kreia is ok for the most part, though her ending (and ending for the series for that matter) needs more work, I don't see a dying old witch talking for hours standing up-right. At least let her drop down on the floor or against a pillar or soemthing.

 

Sion is nicely done, up to the end. I really wish I would get chased by ahim more, he is kinda scary. I also wish they have more in-depth cut scene on how he would once again bow down to Traya after he almsot succeed in killing her though, kinda out of place there.

 

Nihilus have good build up, but anti-climatic confrontation, most is said in his own thread already.

 

Atris is weakly done, I wish they would keep the Atris vs Nihilus confrontation scene, even though we know Atris won't send a chance. Either its a light-side-again Atris picking up the pieces, or option for DS Exile to command his Atris pet to do his bidding. That would at least be a nice thing to watch.

 

Basically kotor2 Villians lack a bit of depth, perhaps due to rush work.

[T.Nova]

Malak was tall, had a nice costume (the red suit was fitting) and he had the classical bad guy laugh. Cliched maybe, but still he was alot of fun. I did think Darth Sion was alright, but in the end he turned out to be some pathetic sob who submitted to an old witch. And I really hated Kreia, You don't know how satisfying it was to end that old witches life.

 

Darth Nihilus was supposed to sound like super bad guy that made Darth Vader look like a sissy, this was the pinnacle of the darkside, killing planets to fuel his power had me saying wtf? Next thing you you know he turns out to be some pathetic character.

 

But nothing beats Darth Malak at this point, the end duel was truly epic.. Master v.s Apprentice, Light Side v.s Dark Side (for LS characters) and the fate of the galaxy at stake.

[T.Nova]

Malak was tall, had a nice costume (the red suit was fitting) and he had the classical bad guy laugh. Cliched maybe, but still he was alot of fun. I did think Darth Sion was alright, but in the end he turned out to be some pathetic sob who submitted to an old witch. And I really hated Kreia, You don't know how satisfying it was to end that old witches life.

 

Darth Nihilus was supposed to sound like super bad guy that made Darth Vader look like a sissy, this was the pinnacle of the darkside, killing planets to fuel his power had me saying wtf? Next thing you you know he turns out to be some pathetic character.

 

But nothing beats Darth Malak at this point, the end duel was truly epic.. Master v.s Apprentice, Light Side v.s Dark Side (for LS characters) and the fate of the galaxy at stake.

[Mace MacLeod]

The entire point of the KotOR II plotline is YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IS GOING ON.

 

And that's the game's biggest weakness--being mysterious and vague is easy. Sooner or later you need the payoff, which unfortunately never really comes. There isn't a single moment in TSL that had the same "OMG! What...?! REALLY?!" impact as finding out the truth about your PC for the first time in KotOR on board the Leviathan, IMHO. On my first playthrough of KotOR, my first savegame after the Leviathan looked like

I'm Revan???????!!!!!!!!!

 

and there was no comparable moment in TSL. Sure it was a lot darker, more multi-layered and much more ambitious, but tragically they just ran out of money, time, and/or ideas and couldn't make the story threads all tie together. *sigh* Anyway, back on topic.

 

Malak was cooler only in that he was appropriately tough as a final villain. As a character, I found him to be just another one-dimensional, muah-ha-ha-ing generic evil guy. If he had a moustache, he'd be twiddling it in every cutscene a la Snidely Whiplash. Yawn. Still, fighting him was actually hard. He was a final boss who had some stones, unlike the TSL crop. Kreia, Sion and Nihilus were more interesting as characters (well, maybe not Nihilus--he was a character concept) but unsatisfyingly easy to clobber. Sion in particular could have provided a lot more storyline fodder if they'd fleshed out the story before rushing TSL into stores for Christmas...oh well.

 

Final Verdict:

Malak--standard seen one, seen 'em all bad guy. But tough as he should be.

Kreia, Sion--Much better and more complex villains. But wimps. And they shouldn't be.

Nihilus--a black coat on a hatrack has the same charisma. And a wimp. And he REALLY shouldn't be.

[Mosier]

Basically I see the difference between Malak and Traya to be like comparing Darth Vader to Darth Sidious. One uses brute force and is rather obvious about how they go about things while the other uses cunning and deviousness to reach the same objective by risking someone else's neck. (Nevermind the obvious cyber enhancements versus the shriveled cackling beneath a robe..)

 

Sion = Darth Maul

 

Nihilus = red herring

[Nema_Suneimi]

I thought that it was a mistake in TSL to make it so obvious that Kreia was the betrayer. You might have had that tension and OMG moment if she had been even more subtle in her ways and you really had to consider whether to believe in her or your other friends -- only to be thunderstruck when you realize you'd been manipulated by virtually everyone, especially Kreia, in the end. Everything was just too obvious.

 

The biggest OMG moment for me came with the final meeting with the Jedi masters -- like, noooooo Vrook (even though he was a crabby bastige)!!!

 

And, on topic -- I really liked Malak, his voice, his look, and enjoyed the challenge of the final confrontation. I don't think he should have felt any regrets when he died, however -- that was really weak -- he might have cursed the PC for being the one to lure him to the dark side, loading all the responsibility on the PC in an appropriately Sith-like manner, the way Saul tried to take a final stab at hurting Carth, and died laughing.

[Scars Unseen]

Malak was a walking advertisement against smokeless tobacco(the dark side causes mouth cancer... who knew?). Nihilis had potential, except the whole wound in the force thing bothered me to begin with. Sion was just plain boring to me. Kreia was really the only interesting one to me. A lot more backstory would have done all of the above worlds of good.

[lessthanjake2]

These three are in general weaker than Malak because they are so much harder to understand.

 

My first time through I didnt at all understand why Kreia was doing what she was doing. It actually took me like 3 playthroughs to realize that she wanted to somehow use you to kill the Force (and I still dont understand HOW she planned to do that). All she keeps saying is stuff like "You lived without the Force and thats why I sought you out." That basically tells me nothing about what she means to do with that unique trait of mine. Also I agree it wasnt enough of an "OMG!!!!!" moment when she betrayed you. You know it is coming all along really.

 

Sion is pretty cool. I dont mind the guy but he is totally in the background in the story. He is absolutely NOT a main part of it. He just provides a couple boss fights and that's all. Because hes not a big part of the story, nothing is really explained about him in great detail. You know that he was at Trayus Academy with Kreia and that she was an abusive teacher (probably in a mental way but thats another unexplained thing) and he betrayed her and cast her out. That's all you know, and frankly it is a weak back story that makes Sion an average villain at best. Also the fact that he never seems like much of a threat to you (besides being on Peragus, he doesnt follow you or do anything bad) makes him weak.

 

Nihilus also suffers from being hard to understand. The whole "feeding off of force sensitives" thing is a bit overly weird in my view to begin with. But it's acceptable. The only problem is that it is never explained why you are the only one who can kill him. No one tells you that you are the only one because he cant feed off of the force within you. If I remember correctly I didnt really grasp that the first time I played it (the problem being that you only get answers to this and stuff like it through certain very specific conversation choices that players dont always choose). And once again, like Sion, you get no backstory on him beyond what Kreia knows. It makes him seem like he came out of the blue and just is this totally random huge threat that you dont understand. Thats weak. And obviously the fact that hes so easy to kill is also weak.

 

What made Malak a good villain were things that these villains simply did not have. He was a constant threat to you, in that he blew up an entire world just to get you, and was having bounty hunters going after you and his apprentice etc etc. None of these villains were ever really a threat to you. Nihilus was a threat to Jedi and people in general, but not specifically you. Malak was also a good villain because he had large personal ties to your character. These villains either have personal ties to Kreia or are Kreia. You dont have personal ties to any of them and as such its totally impersonal.

 

 

Anyways my rant is over. KOTOR II makes me mad because the gameplay is IMO a lot better than KOTOR I but the story is just such a lesser story. KOTOR IIs gameplay with a KOTOR I level story would be perfect.

[Darth333]

While Malak was the typical SW villain type, Kreia was well done too.

 

I found that Kreia's character was fleshed out very well but that the other two Sith Lords were rather bland and forgettable.

 

As for the TSL storyline, I still enjoyed the game but the "wound in the force", the "echoes" and the "feeding off of force sensitives" thingies were just too esoteric for me, cut content or not.