Revan VS. Nihilus... who would win

[Lord Spitfire]

That's just hilarious, yet somehow I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry at this...

 

Because more than anything this convinces me that having any sort of meaningful discussion or conversation about Revan is next to pointless once the Revan fanboys get involved... You could say the same for the exile-fanboys, I guess, but I don't think they're quite as numerous...

 

That's . . . . sad, to say the least. While everyone knows that Revan pawns all, that's still . . . . just sad!

[The Architect]

Why? she is a Sith Lord and Sith Lords do not reveal all the sensitive information that they know even to their apprentices. I have posted an example to back my point.

 

Why? Why? Are you serious? Because she wants him dead! She knows how dangerous Nihilus is. She knows that he would’ve devoured all life in the galaxy if the Exile didn’t stop him. The Exile is the key to stopping Nihilus. Kreia knows that. So it would be illogical if she lied to him/her about the fact that there is no defence against his draining ability, apart from him/her.

 

Sith Lords don’t lie all the time you know. You have to ask yourself: what would she gain by lying to the Exile about there being no defence against Nihilus’ draining ability? A Sith Lord will only lie if they benefit from it in some way.

 

The problem is that Trayus Academy is the only region that we see intact on Malachor V in KOTOR II and many other regions have been destroyed. The Chronciles reveals that there were many other hidden tomb like cities on the surface of an intact Malachor V planet that Revan visited and he explored many of those hidden regions for more knowledge.

 

So things are not just limited to Trayus Academy. And we would never know that Revan might have possibly discovered a secret that could be used to counter Nihilus's Drain technique. After-all what Nihilus exhibited was not his own invention.

 

Isn’t it rational to believe that Kreia and Sion (who both knew of no defensive technique against Nihilus) visited these “other regions” of Malachor V you speak of? Why would it be limited to just Revan?

 

And yet you fail to realize that we are talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are standing close to each other or in a same place. In this kind of scenario, Revan can surely do what I mentioned.

 

So your point is already moot.

 

And yet you fail to realise that you cannot just disregard Nihilus’ drain; thus he would use it before Revan could get anywhere near him, meaning that they couldn’t have any type of 1 on 1, face to face battle. Or what, do you think that Nihilus would wait and for some reason let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him? Why would he do that? So your point is moot.

[Christos K]

Also in the video did you not see how long it took for nihilus' power to become full efect. If Revan did force jump Nihilus' power would do nothing but hit his slaves. I admit that is sad how many people vote for Revan on anything. But still There would be ways to kill nihilus. Since nihilus' power takes so long to become fully effective Revan could do force push, force lighting or anything that is not defense but offense. No one in the game says there is no defense against nihilus' power either. Why doesnt someone just send some crazy email to obisidian or lucasarts and ask them who would win in a 1 on 1 duel between Revan and Nihilus. lol they would do crap but you could still try. And would everyone supporting NIhilus that the EXile is the key to defeating Nihilus. THAT IS NOT A FACT. No one says that except all of the exile fan girls and fan boys.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Why? Why? Are you serious? Because she wants him dead! She knows how dangerous Nihilus is. She knows that he would’ve devoured all life in the galaxy if the Exile didn’t stop him. The Exile is the key to stopping Nihilus. Kreia knows that. So it would be illogical if she lied to him/her about the fact that there is no defence against his draining ability, apart from him/her.

Here are some cases:

 

A) She does not know that any defensive technique exists to counter the Drain of Nihilus. She tried to find one but she did not succeeded and thus came to a conclusion that no such defensive technique exists.

 

OR

 

B) She is not telling the whole truth to Exile. She does not wants to face Nihilus herself and since Exile is the only viable option to defeat Nihilus easily, so she sends him to defeat him and tells her that only she (Exile) is the key to defeat him.

 

My point is that whatever Kriea says is not always true. Unless it is officially declared that there is no defence to Nihilus' Drain, there will always be a possibility for a one to exist.

 

Sith Lords don’t lie all the time you know. You have to ask yourself: what would she gain by lying to the Exile about there being no defence against Nihilus’ draining ability? A Sith Lord will only lie if they benefit from it in some way.

I never said that Sith Lords always lie all the time. But they do lie when they have some vested interests to consider or do not want to reveal sensitive information.

 

And you failed to note that Kriea indeed benefitted from that supposed "lie" or theory of hers by convincing Exile that only Exile is the key to stop Nihilus and Kriea won't have to go through a more difficult route to stop him. Thus she stayed behind and watched the results, which proved to be useful.

 

Isn’t it rational to believe that Kreia and Sion (who both knew of no defensive technique against Nihilus) visited these “other regions” of Malachor V you speak of? Why would it be limited to just Revan?

Once again you failed to note that Malachor V was a perfect and un-damaged planet when Revan visited it and it harboured many hidden tomb like cities filled with Sith knowledge/secrets apart from the Trayus Academy. This was before the conclusion of Mandalorian War.

 

Now Sion and Kriea visited Malachor V planet after the Mandalorian War and by that time, that planet was mostly destroyed by the "Mass Shadow Generator" and many places were lost and few places remained intact and Trayus Academy was the only notable region to visit in Malachor V as evident from KOTOR II.

 

Now how can Sion and Kriea gain as much information as Revan gained from Malachor V, when it was already a destroyed planet with few places intact when they visited it while this was not the case when Revan visited Malachor V?

 

My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.

 

And yet you fail to realise that you cannot just disregard Nihilus’ drain; thus he would use it before Revan could get anywhere near him, meaning that they couldn’t have any type of 1 on 1, face to face battle. Or what, do you think that Nihilus would wait and for some reason let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him? Why would he do that? So your point is moot.

Once again you do not know that how quickly Nihilus can unleash his Drain attack in a 1 vs 1 scenario and the opponent will not be just standing there to get hit by his attack.

 

It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber. In this case, Nihilus will have to counter the attack with his Saber and the duel will start. Now Revan will have the advantage.

 

So like Christos K said, Revan won't be just standing and watching.

 

You should understand that SPEED and SKILL are the two most important factors that determine the outcome in a 1 vs 1 combat scenario. And circumstances also play a vital role.

[Emperor Devon]

My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.

 

There are several reasons I'm extraordinarily skeptical Revan that learned some anti-Nihilus technique in these "tomb-like cities"...

 

First, the Trayus Academy is obviously the most protected structure on Malachor, having obviously survived the Mass Shadow Generator. Since this technique of yours is so rare and so powerful, why store it in one place that's much more vulnerable than another? That would've been idiotic for the Sith to do.

 

Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?

 

Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.

 

Lastly, supposing the technique even existed despite the above reasons, I don't see how it could exactly work. A Jedi drawing on the Force to protect themselves when facing Nihilus would be like pouring barbecue sauce over his meal. Since it's what he obviously feeds upon, simply coating a Jedi with the Force would simply give him more to eat.

 

It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber.

 

I'm quite surprised this didn't happen at Katarr. Honestly, do you think Revan could be faster than half a dozen (or perhaps several dozen) Jedi Masters attacking in unison? One Sith Lord is much less dangerous than they were, and Nihilus mopped the floor with them.

[Jediphile]

Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?

 

Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.

 

This is what I don't understand either. This supposed anti-Nihilus is complete BASELESS! There is no evidence or even hint of it in any source. None. At all!

 

So why are we even discussing it? Until such a time as such a power is established or even hinted at in ANY Star Wars source, it is a non-issue, because it does not exist. We might just as well claim that Nihilus was immune to force powers, that Kreia could timetravel, or some other equally wild idea pulled out of thin air with no basis to support it at all.

[SilentScope001]

So why are we even discussing it? Until such a time as such a power is established or even hinted at in ANY Star Wars source, it is a non-issue, because it does not exist. We might just as well claim that Nihilus was immune to force powers, that Kreia could timetravel, or some other equally wild idea pulled out of thin air with no basis to support it at all.

 

I claim that Nihilius is immune to all force powers.

 

Why? I tried to use Force Lighting on Nihilus and it said, "Failed!" Since gameplay equals reality, and I always tried to use Force Lighting, and I always tried to use other Force Powers, but they failed...hm. Nihilus may not be immune to all Force Powers, but he has a lot of immunity, and if Exile cannot break that immunity, I don't know if Revan can either. Much easier to say that Nihilus is immune to all force powers.

 

Revan loses. Revan is the Heart of the Force, after all, meaning that he is a good Force User...but the Force is meaingless against a monster with high Force Resistence. And Nihilus is an AWESOME lightsaber duelist, he knocked out Mandalore with one of his great lightsaber swipe, so Revan won't stand a chance. If Nihilus doesn't use his Force Drain (because, you know, he's bored and he wants to have some fun too as a monsterous monster), then Nihilus can wipe out Revan because he is immune to Force Powers and that he is a good lightsaber duelist. Nihilus would just Force Spam Revan.

 

End of story.

===

Seriously, this has gone long enough. Who decides who wins in a battle between Revan and Nihilus? LA. If LA wants to give in to fanboys and let Revan win, then Revan wins. But LA is surely not getting my money any more for giving into fanboys and ruining Nihilus.

[The Architect]

Read post 306# from Emperor Devon to see why I believe no anti-Nihilus force power exists.

 

Once again you failed to note that Malachor V was a perfect and un-damaged planet when Revan visited it and it harboured many hidden tomb like cities filled with Sith knowledge/secrets apart from the Trayus Academy. This was before the conclusion of Mandalorian War.

 

Now Sion and Kriea visited Malachor V planet after the Mandalorian War and by that time, that planet was mostly destroyed by the "Mass Shadow Generator" and many places were lost and few places remained intact and Trayus Academy was the only notable region to visit in Malachor V as evident from KOTOR II.

 

Now how can Sion and Kriea gain as much information as Revan gained from Malachor V, when it was already a destroyed planet with few places intact when they visited it while this was not the case when Revan visited Malachor V?

 

My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time.

 

Ah, but since I believe that Kreia and Kae are the same person, I believe she didn’t first visit Malachor V after the Mandalorian Wars, thus she had access to all these “other regions” of Malachor V like Revan did. And she still found no anti-Nihilus power.

 

Of course I could be wrong about Kreia being Kae, but there are many clues in TSL that suggest they are the same person, and there is no proof in the game that they aren’t the same person. That doesn’t mean they are the same people of course.

 

Once again you do not know that how quickly Nihilus can unleash his Drain attack in a 1 vs 1 scenario and the opponent will not be just standing there to get hit by his attack.

 

It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber. In this case, Nihilus will have to counter the attack with his Saber and the duel will start. Now Revan will have the advantage.

 

So like Christos K said, Revan won't be just standing and watching.

 

You should understand that SPEED and SKILL are the two most important factors that determine the outcome in a 1 vs 1 combat scenario. And circumstances also play a vital role.

 

You can’t possibly be that… for Pete’s sake!

 

Once again you have IGNORED the FACT that Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him?

 

Revan CANNOT force jump thousands of miles. Revan CANNOT kill someone with force storm who is thousands of miles away from him/her.

 

Read this once again: Revan COULD NOT get CLOSE ENOUGH to Nihilus to be able to harm him in the first place.

 

Your most likely counter argument: Yes but if Revan was close enough to be able to kill Nihilus, he could force jump him and kill him, or use force storm and kill him.

 

My argument against that:

 

a) Since Nihilus drains and eats the force, one can assume that he would just absorb any force powers thrown at him by a REGULAR force user, thus force storm/lightning wouldn’t work on him.

 

b) You CANNOT just disregard Nihilus’ force drain just to suit Revan. Nihilus wouldn’t wait for some reason and let someone powerful like Revan get close enough to him to kill him. Why would he do that?

 

Also in the video did you not see how long it took for nihilus' power to become full efect.

 

How do you know that I didn’t see that Nihilus vs. Sion video? I did. Before I say why I believe Nihilus wasn’t using the same power he did on all life save Visas on Katarr, I’ll explain why Revan WOULD NOT be able to force jump Nihilus.

 

Because:

 

Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him? Revan CANNOT force jump thousands of miles. Revan CANNOT kill someone with force storm who is thousands of miles away from him/her.

 

There are two reasons why I believe Nihilus wasn’t using his super force drain power against Sion:

 

a) Unseen, Unheard (a canonical article. I'm going by what the reliable ED said) says that Visas said when Nihilus spoke, it deafened everyone on Katarr of the force, and that deafening killed them. Visas pulled through because she is tied to Nihilus somehow, which is evidenced by her sacrifice option on the Ravager. Nihilus didn’t speak (say something which causes force users to be deafened of the force) when he attacked Sion, it looks like he just used the regular force drain power on him.

 

b) Nihilus most likely knows about Sion’s regeneration. He could kill him over and over again, but that would be a waste of time, because Sion would keep coming back and coming back, and it appears Nihilus doesn’t have the ability to break Sion's will and permanently kill him.

[S_W_LeGenD]

There are several reasons I'm extraordinarily skeptical Revan that learned some anti-Nihilus technique in these "tomb-like cities"...

Of-course! you can be skeptical since there is no definate evidence but just suppositions. But such a possibility still remains.

 

First, the Trayus Academy is obviously the most protected structure on Malachor, having obviously survived the Mass Shadow Generator. Since this technique of yours is so rare and so powerful, why store it in one place that's much more vulnerable than another? That would've been idiotic for the Sith to do.

We would never know that which structure on Malachor V was most protected because when the planet was destroyed, some structures were gone and a few remained, among which Trayus Academy was one.

 

Remember that it is possible that not all structures get badly damaged in a disaster hit region. Some stand and some fall.

 

Another thing is that Trayus Academy was a frequently used region so that specific technique was probably not kept over there for everyone to study.

 

Next, supposing Revan even encountered this technique in the tomb-like cities, why didn't he take it with him or at least have it moved someplace more safe?

He would have taken it. He did took things with him that were very important to him. Remember that the secrets of Tulak Horde were actiually taken by Revan and Kriea admitted that those secrets were no longer present on Korriban planet. So it is a possibility that he could have taken such a secret with him.

 

Not to mention the complete lack of evidence of its existence in the game, chronicles, or other sources. I doubt Obsidian would have thought up an anti-Nihilus technique only to have no mention of it in the game.

Obsidian might not have thought about it but remember that Obsidian is not the only company in-charge for developing KOTOR games. Stories can be easily changed or altered or even retconned.

 

Lastly, supposing the technique even existed despite the above reasons, I don't see how it could exactly work. A Jedi drawing on the Force to protect themselves when facing Nihilus would be like pouring barbecue sauce over his meal. Since it's what he obviously feeds upon, simply coating a Jedi with the Force would simply give him more to eat.

That technique can be of a very different nature. We can only speculate about it.

 

I can give you one example: thousands of years later, a technique known as Force Cloak was introduced by Fallanassi. They taught it to a Jedi Luke Skywalker and he mastered it.

 

Now a normal Force Cloak technique allows a Jedi to become invisible to the eyes and to any electronic item as well. But an advanced form of Force Cloak allows a person to even hide/prevent his Force sensitivity from detection from other Force sensitive beings. You cannot even sense the presence of a Jedi who has mastered the Force Cloak technique and when that Jedi is using it. Now this technique can be used to fool Nihilus that no one is present in the same region where he is standing and he can get attacked by such a foe in a 1 vs 1 scenario without getting detected in the process. But chances of failure are also there.

 

So this one particular technique can be useful in a fight against Nihilus.

 

And there can be some other techniques as well. It is not necessary that a direct counter to Nihilus drain exists, although there is a possibility for one such to exist but we do not know. But certain techniques do exist that can be used to gain advantage in any kind of challenging scenario. The above mentioned technique is one good example.

 

I'm quite surprised this didn't happen at Katarr. Honestly, do you think Revan could be faster than half a dozen (or perhaps several dozen) Jedi Masters attacking in unison? One Sith Lord is much less dangerous than they were, and Nihilus mopped the floor with them.

Once again! you are talking about a different scenario, which is irrelevant.

 

I am talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are present in a same region and both know that their opponent is there and ready for battle. In this kind of scenario, factors such as Speed, Skill and Circumstances decide the out-come of a battle. And Revan can do what he wants in this kind of fighting scenario.

 

So like I said before:

 

-> If Nihilus manages to hit first - he wins.

-> If Revan manages to hit first - he wins.

[The Architect]

Debating with S_W_LeGenD is like debating with a brick wall.

 

He refuses to acknowledge that fact that there couldn’t possibly be a close, face to face, one on one battle between Revan and Nihilus in the first place, because of Nihilus’ ability to detect and drain force users from thousands of miles away.

 

You cannot just disregard Nihilus’ ability to do that to suit Revan. Emperor Devon hit the nail on the head. One ex-Sith Lord isn’t going to be more trouble for Nihilus than approximately one hundred Jedi.

[Lord Spitfire]

Architecht, who said that Revan must use a ship to dock on the Ravager, then go to fight Nihilus?

 

Since it has never happened, you wouldn't know for sure how it would happen. If it were face-to-face, Revan would pawn Nihilus. He'd cut him down before Nihilus could concentrate to use that power.

 

However if Revan had to doc on the Ravager and travel to Nihilus, there is no doubt that Nihilus would eat Revan before he got so far.

 

An irrelevant peice of information, but did you know that when writing the story, Obsidian had the idea of Nihilus's mask to be made out of Revan's skull, but they quickly changed it because they thought that Revan had to live. Though this might be a little evidence that Nihilus would kill Revan, I'm not sure. Though in a duel, as I said, I think Revan would pawn Nihilus. But that's my opinion.

[Quanon]

I say you put them in boxing-arena , a real fair fight . So no Hutts involved to organize

 

So you set up some rules , no Force tricks and faul language before the bell rings and arm of the arbiter is down .

 

Yes that's right we need a judge of somekind to follow the fight . Since you all said it : Sith Lords cheat and lie if they can gain anything for it that helps themself .

 

So I say we put Malak or Atris or GO-TO ( hopefully a wild lighting hits him ) in the middle and watch the show , from far away that is !!! lol

 

To conclude : I voted Nihilus ; he talks funny , has a hot looking girl as apprintince . ( no jawless bold guy that laughs like a maniac all the time )

Lets Sion and the other Sith do his dirty work while he relax's on his big ship.

GO Nihilus you "sexy lad" , yaaargh

[Emperor Devon]

We would never know that which structure on Malachor V was most protected because when the planet was destroyed, some structures were gone and a few remained, among which Trayus Academy was one.

 

Here you're doing nothing but speculating. There is no form of evidence whatsoever to indicate that any of the tomb-cities survived, let alone that they contained already unproven techniques to resist Nihilus.

 

At this point we might as well start coming up with fanon theories that Revan could blast whole planets apart with the Force and could could out duel-ten thousand Jedi at once. There's just as much evidence to support those ideas as there is to support your Nihilus-defense technique theory.

 

More like evidence of absence than actual evidence of absence for those ideas, actually. Not the sort of thing that's good to rely upon in a debate this factual. I say we stick to canon for it.

 

So it is a possibility that he could have taken such a secret with him.

 

My above statement about fanon...

 

Obsidian might not have thought about it but remember that Obsidian is not the only company in-charge for developing KOTOR games. Stories can be easily changed or altered or even retconned.

 

Can you cite any official sources where a Nihilus-defense technique was created? I myself can't think of any. (By that I mean canonical, not fanonical sources)

 

But an advanced form of Force Cloak allows a person to even hide/prevent his Force sensitivity from detection from other Force sensitive beings. You cannot even sense the presence of a Jedi who has mastered the Force Cloak technique and when that Jedi is using it.

 

I've heard of this technique, but I would not consider it enough. Considering how Nihilus is capable of feeling Force-sensitives across millions of light years I don't think one cloaked Force-user right next to him would stand much of a chance at hiding.

 

Once again! you are talking about a different scenario, which is irrelevant.

 

I am talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are present

 

Might I ask how this irrelevant? Nihilus was facing much worse odds on Katarr than he ever would against Revan. They were quite similar scenarios; he was right by all those Jedi and within range to have a lightsaber jabbed into his gut. That there were dozens of them rather than simply one only gave Nihilus worse odds; that he could overcome them is quite a testament to his power. Group fights are much, much harder to win than one-on-one fights. There is no logical way you can claim that Nihilus winning an extremely difficult fight is evidence that he would lose a difficult one.

 

Unless Revan is more powerful than one hundred Jedi Masters? Of course not.

[SirHaxALot]

Once again you have IGNORED the FACT that Nihilus can detect force users from THOUSANDS of MILES away and kill them from that distance. Since Revan is certainly an above average force user, HOW could he/she get anywhere near Nihilus, when he would detect Revan from thousands of miles away (as he detected those force users on Katarr) and kill him?

 

Yes, Nihilus is so great at detecting force users from thousands of miles away--as the trap for him on Telos exemplifies. His ability is great, don't get me wrong, but it is not perfect as he is unable to detect Kreia, the other Jedi Masters, and The Exile (obvious reasons). Also, Atris is the one who betrayed the meeting on Katarr to Nihilus, in hopes that the order would be able to crush him (this may or may not be canon, disprove me with facts).

 

Anyways, why does this 1v1 encounter have to encompass great distances? Ok, here's the scenario: Revan is in the Unknown Regions and Nihilus is on Coruscant, who would win? Remember: they cannot leave their respective areas! Also, if we're going to bring distance into this, consider Revan's forces versus Nihilus' forces. Who do you think would win a war? I don't believe that's a hard question to answer.

 

We're trying to create a debate in regards to the use of their individual abilities within well-defined perimeters such as a close-combat situation where force powers such as Force Choke, Force Lightning, Mind Trick, Push, etc...would all be within range.

 

Congratulations, Nihilus could kill Revan from thousands of miles away if he could pinpoint Revan's location etc etc etc....Now, that isn't much of a 1v1. Darth Vader could kill Luke from thousand of miles away using the Deathstar to destroy a planet--so obviously Vader is more powerful in a 1v1.

 

Let's just set-up the scenario as such when the Exile encounters Nihilus on the Ravager's bridge.

 

Seemingly, the Exile is the only person who can battle Nihilus. So, both are voids in the force etc etc...

 

The Exile, can be affected by people using force on him. IE: Kreia could still push the Exile even after he defeated Nihilus, also Sith/Jedi could still use force powers on the Exile. This means, that this void, which the Exile represents, is not immune to Force effects, it is just void of life touched by the force in particular.

 

Nihilus can also be hit by force powers (I remember Force Kill working once...and just to make sure I was correct, I replayed a game saved just before this fight and successfully Force Wave'd him).

 

We can safely postulate that Nihilus is not immune to Force or Saber attacks. Now, we come down to a basic question: who wins?

 

Does Nihilus' ability to deplete all life of force (especially on a large scale) require some degree of concentration? Obviously, after all, it is a power attributed to the Sith. But, also, any force power in particular, requires some degree of concentration.

 

Nihilus is arrogant. We clearly see this when the Exile confronts Nihilus; instead of Nihilus directly attacking the Exile, he just sort of stands around, talks with the Exile then attacks him after the Exile goads him into it (If you must feed...then feed on me!).

 

Now, imagine Revan in the same situation. Also, Revan is not going to let his opponent have a free attack on him (I mean, he is a tactician, not a retard--he doesn't believe that force won't have an affect on him).

 

So, maybe Revan would get a force attack off before Nihilus is able to react. But, I also fail to believe that one attack is enough to cripple Nihilus, regardless of how strong Revan is.

 

Now, Nihilus has his chance to counter, he aims his devastating life drain attack and fires (matter of speaking). Is Revan unable to dodge this? Is Revan unable to use a force power to counter another force power (remember, his ability to annihilate life is used by means of the force, in essence he manipulates the force within victims)?

 

Let me interject all of this with another string of information/speculation. Revan was able to convert all of the Jedi that went to War to his side. As Kreia admits, "Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed." She tells the exile that manipulating beings through the force was Revan's way. Kreia suggests that Revan's success in converting so many Jedi was because he knew how to take advantage of wounds in the force, (IE: Malachor V).

 

There are too many possible variables here. Sure, Nihilus has great commanding of the force, but after all he is manipulating the Force. The Force can be countered by the Force. Although, Kreia does claim there is no counter to this force power...But also, Nihilus is not immune to force attacks, therefore if he is ousted before the use of his unstoppable attack, it is of no matter.

 

In my opinion, the fight could go either way. Circumstances dictate too much of this fight, if you don't believe so, then re-read everyone else's comment/post. They all revolve around certain circumstances (IE: Revan getting a surprise force jump attack on Nihilus. Or Nihilus attacking Revan from a vast distance).

 

Let's say Nihilus and Revan face off old western style. The timer beeps down to 3 and they attack at the same time. Revan throws his saber and Nihilus uses his force devour attack. Revan is devoured and Nihilus' head is chopped off. Wooooo

 

But, to top off my opinion, I believe Revan would come out on top (that is of course, in my selective circumstances XD).

[Vaelastraz]

Sounds very reasonable to me.

But it really just depends on how EXACTLY Nihilus' force drain works. And we don't know that I'm afraid...

We should probably make a list with all "facts" we have of that ability.

1.) It works on a planetary scale, from orbit.

2.) Noone so far resisted it except Visas and Exile.

3.) There is another form of that power: His "presence" kills as well, his crew is drained slowly...

 

Perhaps a simply "force immunity" could be enough to resist it...The Jedi masters on Katarr didn't have the chance to try this, as they were killed from orbit. But then again, force immunity doesn't even prevent Malak's force lightning completely.

 

I still think, in a single combat, Nihilus wins.

[Christos K]

Why did you say: If LA wants to give in to fanboys and let Revan win, then Revan wins. But LA is surely not getting my money any more for giving into fanboys and ruining Nihilus.

 

Darth Nihilus is allready dead what would it matter to them. And by saying this you are a Nihilus fanboy/girl.

[Jediphile]

Also, Atris is the one who betrayed the meeting on Katarr to Nihilus, in hopes that the order would be able to crush him (this may or may not be canon, disprove me with facts).

 

It's in the dialog.tlk, but is never stated in the game. So it's canon as much or as little as the exile's discussion with Lonna Vash, the Sion vs. Nihilus confrontation, or Kreia's claim of Revan ordering the bombing of Telos during the Jedi Civil War. I'd accept since it's in the game files and fits Atris' MO, but only if the rest is as well.

 

Congratulations, Nihilus could kill Revan from thousands of miles away if he could pinpoint Revan's location etc etc etc....Now, that isn't much of a 1v1. Darth Vader could kill Luke from thousand of miles away using the Deathstar to destroy a planet--so obviously Vader is more powerful in a 1v1.

 

No, that's Vader pushing a button while Nihilus uses his own powers. That's a significant difference that's not so easily ignored. That's the Death Star's power, not Vader's.

 

Does Nihilus' ability to deplete all life of force (especially on a large scale) require some degree of concentration? Obviously, after all, it is a power attributed to the Sith. But, also, any force power in particular, requires some degree of concentration.

 

But it is problematic to compare Nihilus' powers to those of other forceusers because they are so unique...

 

Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

 

Instinct suggests an almost involutary action rather than a conscious, mental command.

 

Nihilus is arrogant. We clearly see this when the Exile confronts Nihilus; instead of Nihilus directly attacking the Exile, he just sort of stands around, talks with the Exile then attacks him after the Exile goads him into it (If you must feed...then feed on me!).

 

Since we know VERY little of Nihilus, this is difficult to say. And note that just making a surprise attack on Nihilus is not possible - as soon as the exile gets close, he and his friends are automatically stunned by Nihilus before he even turns to look at them.

 

Now, imagine Revan in the same situation. Also, Revan is not going to let his opponent have a free attack on him (I mean, he is a tactician, not a retard--he doesn't believe that force won't have an affect on him).

 

So, maybe Revan would get a force attack off before Nihilus is able to react. But, I also fail to believe that one attack is enough to cripple Nihilus, regardless of how strong Revan is.

 

I would disagree with that on the basis of what is stated above. You cannot rush Nihilus in the game because he stuns you, and what would save Revan from that? And even if Revan could do that, Nihilus' reaction is instinctual, which would make it virtually impossible to move faster. I'm not going to claim that Nihilus is a god-like force, but having instinctual reflexes rather than cognitive ones would seem to be a huge benefit in a fight like that.

 

Reaction is based on the basis that you must formulate a course of action before you can begin to set it into motion, i.e., a thought-process that needs to be completed before you can begin your act. However, Nihilus is virtually thoughtless and reacts completely on instinct. So there really is no thought-process to slow him down.

 

Let me interject all of this with another string of information/speculation. Revan was able to convert all of the Jedi that went to War to his side. As Kreia admits, "Ah, but to make officers turn on their own people, to bomb innocent worlds to make pacts… strong influence, indeed." She tells the exile that manipulating beings through the force was Revan's way. Kreia suggests that Revan's success in converting so many Jedi was because he knew how to take advantage of wounds in the force, (IE: Malachor V).

 

Uhm... This looks like a fairly significant overinterpretation to me. Revan was interested in force BONDS, not wounds. There were no force wounds that we know of before the exile. That's why the masters fear the exile's ability so much.

 

HK-47: "But the most effective weapon against Jedi seems to be the erosion of the spirit.Answer: Revan claimed that psychological warfare against Jedi was important because much of their power comes from their state of mind, their connection to this religion called the "Force."Revan said that many Jedi have the capability to form connections to life around them, although few of them realized the extent to which this is possible."

 

Zez-Kai Ell: "There were a few within the Order who knew more than I did of such bonds - but their students were few, lost in the Mandalorian Wars. It was rumored that Revan studied such bonding deeply, both through the Jedi histories and with certain teachers, before he left the Order and went to war."

 

Kreia: "But no Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force."

[GarfieldJL]

I'm guessing Nihilus uses a darkside version of Energy Absorbtion. Thus having a similar power the Halycon line. This is just a guess but it could be possible that someone from that family could have taken Nihilus on, because absorbing energy is absorbing energy. One member of that family Nejaa to be specific absorbed all the energy of a guy's lightsaber and used it to crush the guy.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Nihilus can absorb people's Force energy, so couldn't he be able to simply absorb any Force power, lightning for instance? If so, I would think that would severely hamper Revan's ability to win, since if he was unable to use the Force on Nihilus, he would have to get close enough to fight with a lightsaber. By that time, even if what some people say of Nihilus' power taking time to "warm up" was true, he would still not be able to get close enough to take him down.

 

 

Darth Nihilus is allready dead what would it matter to them. And by saying this you are a Nihilus fanboy/girl.

No, we are debating on, if Nihilus and Revan fought, who would win. Saying Nihilus would win isn't fanboyism, it's only stating an opinion about a hypothetical situation.

 

And besides, Nihilus actually could be alive if Jediphile's theory is correct, which I think it is. So who knows, we may actually see a Revan/Nihilus fight in K3.

[SirHaxALot]

I just have a quick question before I delve further into this debacle:

 

Do you believe any Jedi in existence could defeat Nihilus except the Exile?

 

From the looks of things, The Force, personal lightsaber skills, general standing within the order etc...have no effect on the strength of Nihilus' power.

 

Please remember, Luke Skywalker is known for opening a black hole and also cloaking 2 planets for thousands of years using the force.

 

But would all of these techniques fail against the awesome might that is Nihilus?

 

Remember, the force can be an indirect opponent as much as a direct one (IE: throwing objects etc..).

 

Revan could blow a whole in the window behind Nihilus and suck both of them into space XD

[DeadYorick]

Revan could blow a whole in the window behind Nihilus and suck both of them into space XD

 

Well the only reason he would do that is if he was really crazy and went off the wagon to much at the cantina. Or he had the Ebon hawk there to catch him or something.

 

But that is an idea that I never thought of. Why didnt they have the Ebon Hawk blow the bridge up. That would have made it less dramatic but easier to beat the game.

[SirHaxALot]

I wasn't really being serious, just using it as an example...

 

Indirect force can be just as effective as direct force.

[GarfieldJL]

Actually that is a good idea, just have Revan be in a space suit and it wouldn't matter if Revan is sucked into space he can just be picked up.

[Christos K]

I do think that Nihilus' power takes not just a time but a long time to warm up. I mean if he could use it when ever he wanted why would he have waited so long to destroy Telos. And then he wasted the power on the exile. I would say it takes more than 24 hours for him to be able to use it again. I mean the galaxy would be dead if he could use it constanly. I mean this would be him: "okay slaves where done on this planet lets just jump to light speed like its nothing okay done with planet next..." I mean come on it has to be a while before he can use it again or else he would have killed everyone and everything in the galaxy within one week. He would be no doubt the most powerful being ever. So if Revan and Nihilus were in a duel just all of a sudden. Nihilus shoots his power ,even though we do not know how it works I am just saying because of the Nihilus vs Sion video, an dit misses Revan jumps strikes Nihilus duel goes on Nihilus dead. As for the other posts well that is a good idea and Nihilus loves to stand bye that window.. lol

[Titanius Anglesmith]

As has been said before, if Revan uses anything (e.g. a spacesuit or some random Ysalimiri) that is not his own power, it wouldn't really be a real win.

 

I would say it takes more than 24 hours for him to be able to use it again.

Pure speculation. There is nothing that says how long it takes for Nihilus' power to "warm up." Actually, the closest bit of info we have on that is the scene between him and Sion, and it seems that he's able to use his power rather quickly and in close quarters.