Rap Vs. Rock talent

[Balderdash]

I haven't heard enough _good_ hip-hop or rap to get to the point where I'd want to listen to it all the time, but then again I have eclectic music tastes and need a bit of variety anyway.

Same here really.

 

If you, or anyone else, is actually interested enough to buy something on a whim, if you'd care for any recommendations then I'd be happy to oblige.

[MTV2]

i like both. but i mean to rap, all you need to do is just write some poetry and just practice saying it out loud. but then again, rock is just learn some chord on the guitar or drum or bass and practicing them to go fast. i unno. i think Rock. there is just like 5 artists that can rap really good (Tupac, Jay-Z, Snoop Dogg, Young Joc, T.I) and theres way more talented rock artists out there.

 

 

[EDIT] w00t! finally got my 1000th post after 2 1/4 years of hard effort

[Jeff]

The Beastie Boys are one of the greatest rap acts in the world... where are their tattoos, guns etc. Theyre Buddhists and Pro Tibetan activists FFS!!

 

Two of the are from middle class jewish families -Adam Horovitz('Ad Rock') and Adam Yauch('MCA') - Them and Mike Diamond are all childhood friends who started a punk band in their teens. Being New Yorkers, they got caught up in the hip-hop movement. Over the years they have also released some great tracks and albums featuring them on traditional instruments...

Woo! I'm a big fan of the Beastie Boys, I think they have real talent when it comes to hip-hop. I'm not really into the current rap scene but I still listen to both them and Public Enemy.

[Achilles]

I take a look at someone like Mos Def and then take a look at a band like Nickelback (I pick on them because they're popular) and it's no contest which genre of music takes more talent.

 

Trying to compare performance styles is like forcing people to choose between chocolate and vanilla; some people really like chocolate and aren't going to be swayed and vice versa. To my way of thinking, music is a delivery system for a message. Of course packaging counts, but what really matters is what's being said. Now take a look at the lyrics of a rock song and compare them to the lyrics of a rap song and I bet you'll find (generally speaking) that there is a higher level of complexity present in rap music than there is in rock.

 

Now there is some rock that is much better than some rap. The opposite is also true. But at the end of the day, it takes a higher caliber artist to be a good rapper than it does to be a good rock 'n roller.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Mace MacLeod]

Okay, here's a little challenge for anyone who thinks rap takes more talent than rock.

 

First, get a few rap CDs. The good stuff, whatever you think that might be. Sit in your bedroom, and rap along with the CD. Just imitate whatever the rapper does the way he/she does it. See how long it takes you to replicate their efforts.

 

Then go get a few rock or metal CDs. Doesn't have to be super-hard to technical stuff like Steve Vai or early Van Halen or Megadeth, hell, grab AC/DC or ZZ Top or something basic. Once you've done that, pick up a guitar or bass or a pair of drumsticks, and see how long it takes you to do exactly what they're doing.

 

See which takes longer.

[Commander Obi-Wan]

Don't try to tell me that the "G-Unit" has more talent than the The Who, The Beatles, or The Stones. You can try, but I'll never believe it.

 

G-Unit > The Who, The Beatles, and The Stones

 

I like both rap and rock. Though, I prefer rap. Both require talent of some sort.

 

But, I think when you use both and do a great job doing it. You are awesome.

 

 

Weird Al

 

[Balderdash]

Okay, here's a little challenge for anyone who thinks rap takes more talent than rock.

 

First, get a few rap CDs. The good stuff, whatever you think that might be. Sit in your bedroom, and rap along with the CD. Just imitate whatever the rapper does the way he/she does it. See how long it takes you to replicate their efforts.

 

Then go get a few rock or metal CDs. Doesn't have to be super-hard to technical stuff like Steve Vai or early Van Halen or Megadeth, hell, grab AC/DC or ZZ Top or something basic. Once you've done that, pick up a guitar or bass or a pair of drumsticks, and see how long it takes you to do exactly what they're doing.

 

See which takes longer.

Emceeing is a lyric driven art form, which relies on cadences, enunciation and rhythm. See how long it takes you to write rhymes with the complexity of guys like Ras Kass or Pharoahe Monch, or write storytelling songs with the depth and strength of message that Nas or Brother Ali can create. I don't mean just copying them, I mean emulating them.

 

Not to mention there are emcees who I personally cannot keep up with, like Gift of Gab or Eyedea. Or, someone mentioned Twista (who I can't ****ing stand, but nonetheless can rap really fast).

 

When you think about it like that there's really nothing in it. I don't think being the best emcee is more difficult than being the best bass player, or vice versa. I can't emulate the extremities and the subtleties of either art form and neither can you. It comes down to Achilles' Ice Cream analogy really. You probably won't see this, because you obviously prefer one to the other, but it's true.

[MdKnightR]

Well its blatantly obvious what my answer to this is going to be (if you don't think so, check the banner in my signature below).

 

Rock takes more talent. But I will admit that is a biased opinion. The fact of the matter is it all depends on who you are talking about.

 

Example: There is a great difference in the amount of talent of the rock guitarists C.C. Deville (of Poison) and Yngvie Malmsteen. Malmsteen is a virtuoso while DeVille does good to keep tempo. There is even a great difference in the quality of music between different bands. Motley Crue is good to listen to, but they don't hold a candle to the collective talent of Savatage/Trans-Siberian Ochestra.

 

Another Example: Will Smith is a talented musician and actor outside of the realm of Rap. I don't think the same can be said of Sticky Fingas Jones (who plays Blade in the television series).

[Mav]

G-Unit > The Who, The Beatles, and The Stones

You Fail

[Rabish Bini]

@Jae - I also don't like music that screams at me. I enjoy things like Metallica, System of a down is alright, Linkin Park.

 

Rap is lame, real lame. The only rap i like is eminem and Rage against the machine. Rock requires more talent end of story. How many rappers can sing and play guitar just like the lead singer of Metallica? None probably.

[Astrotoy7]

....From my experience, rap requires no talent at all. All you have to be able to do is say the words ****, ****, bitch, hoe, slut, and the like. Rap is vile filth. Flame me if you want, but rap is the stupidest excuse for music I've ever heard...

 

Never took you for the uninformed type Doc. Do you think that applies to every single of the 1000s of rap artists since the genre started in the 70s ?? What rubbish.

 

Generalisations are the sign of ignorance

 

It's like saying, "All Muslims are Terrorists", "All devout Christians are blind zealots", "All Catholic Priests are Pedophiles" etc only because this is the only exposure you may have had to learning about those groups of people. It is far from the truth, in every single instance.

 

mtfbwya

[Rabish Bini]

You have a point astrotoy, but you have to admit, most rappers aren't that good...

[Balderdash]

How many rappers can sing and play guitar just like the lead singer of Metallica? None probably.

Actually lots of real emcees can play instruments too. I can cite many specific examples but there wouldn't be any point since you wouldn't know who I'm talking about. You just haven't heard them because the radio and MTV or whatever is biased towards club music when it comes to hip-hop.

 

One guy who springs to mind straight away however, who I'm sure you're probably aware of, is Wyclef Jean. He raps and plays the guitar, as well as other instruments, and he's a singer.

 

Like Astrotoy mentioned there's even hip-hop groups like The Roots, who are a fully functional band with drummers and guitarists.

[CSI]

Sorry if it's spamming, all I know is rap sheet and a stone from moon.

[St. Jimmy]

Oh gee. What a question...

I have to say that (decent) rock requires more talent than (decent) rap.

First of all, I have so much respect for parts of the hip hop scene. I grew up (partially) in that culture. I like, and listen to artists such as the HillTop Hoods (which are my favorite rap artists), Eminem, KJ 52, Mike Shinoda (from Linkin Park), Most of the stuff that P.O.D make has rapping, and all sorts of lovely artists. I'm not even going to start on alot of the mainstream stuff.

 

I can see that (proper) rapping takes talent. Putting that many words to music, in rhythum (sp?) AND still keeping the listener intrested, no doubt requires skill. But, in the end IMO, it is ~just~ putting clever words together, in time with each other, and occasionally mixing some stuff up for intrest. It's nice to listen to, but that's all it is. Yes, that was a generalization.

 

Rock (Punk/Rock actually) is my music of choice. My parents (especially my dad) listened to alot of rock when I was growing up. So I'm rather familliar with it. My favorite band (obviously) is Green Day, I also like: AC/DC, ZZ Top, The Living End, Creed, U2, Nickleback, Good Charlotte, Galactic Cowboys, Pink Floyd, Evanescence, The Offspring, Midnight Oil, P.O.D, Ramms+ien, Linkin Park, Dream Theater, many, many rock bands.

 

The drummer from Nickleback is simply amazing. I don't know his name, but it truly is an experience listening to him. The vocal range of Amy Lee from Evanescance is rather impressive too. Every single one of the metioned bands has a very skilled lead guitarist IMO. Green Day and ZZ Top have rather talented bass players. The dude from The Living End plays a double bass . Almost every member from each of those bands is half decent at singing too.

These guys not only have to play the damn instrument to the correct timing, but they all have to play as a band (not individuals), and maybe sing too.

 

And then there's the performing side:

The Beastie Boys, just.. wow. These guys rock it out hard. Hip Hop at a concert, is.. or at least often is.. IMO rather stationary. Sure they move, and raise their arms... But too often, not much else happens.

Has anybody seen AC/DC, Ramms+ien, Green Day or Mighdnight Oil perform? The stuff these guys do on stage WHILE Singing/playing, is stunning. I'm going to have to say that a rock performance takes so much more .... everything than a rap concert.

 

Both genres (When done correctly) Take immense amounts of skill and talent. But I'm going to have to go with Rock on this one.

[Mace MacLeod]

When you think about it like that there's really nothing in it. I don't think being the best emcee is more difficult than being the best bass player, or vice versa. I can't emulate the extremities and the subtleties of either art form and neither can you.

FYI, I've played bass for about 18 years now, so I can say with certainty that being the best bass player is far, far more difficult than spitting out rhymes to a beat. It may look easy, but it isn't. I've heard lots of rap over the years, and I have yet to hear anything that even approaches the musical complexity that someone like Les Claypool or John Entwistle is capable of. I'm not saying that good rap requires no talent, just a lot less than becoming even halfway competent as a musician.

[Q]

I have to agree with Mace here. REAL rock involves learning to play an instrument, composing music with lyrics and performing (playing your instrument while singing the lyrics).

Okay, here's a little challenge for anyone who thinks rap takes more talent than rock.

 

First, get a few rap CDs. The good stuff, whatever you think that might be. Sit in your bedroom, and rap along with the CD. Just imitate whatever the rapper does the way he/she does it. See how long it takes you to replicate their efforts.

 

Then go get a few rock or metal CDs. Doesn't have to be super-hard to technical stuff like Steve Vai or early Van Halen or Megadeth, hell, grab AC/DC or ZZ Top or something basic. Once you've done that, pick up a guitar or bass or a pair of drumsticks, and see how long it takes you to do exactly what they're doing.

 

See which takes longer.

Couldn't have said it better myself, man.

 

I don't listen to rap, though I LOVE what I call "pre-rap." This is everything from James Brown through Parliament and contains most of the tunes that the rappers ripped off. Anyone who isn't familiar with this genre should really check it out. "Pre-rap" is still definitely music. Rap just doesn't qualify as such, IMO. Not to offend anyone, but while rap does require some talent, in the end it's just obnoxious poetry set to a beat.

[Negative Sun]

Rap music requires much less talent than playing any kind of instrument, vocals are way overrated in most of today's music...

[Jae Onasi]

Rap music requires much less talent than playing any kind of instrument, vocals are way overrated in most of today's music...

 

A lot of vocals in today's music (both rock and rap) have all the complexity of a jar of baby food. There's such an emphasis on the instruments or the rhyming and the 'package of the performance' that actually singing _well_ has lost some of its signficance. I love it when a group of singers get together and create something that vocally has a lot of harmony and interesting parts along with the music. It takes a lot of time to get that all coordinated and done _well_. One of the most difficult pieces of music I've ever been involved with was a 24-part motet (Renaissance choral piece). There were about 75 of us singing that piece, and it took days of practice to get that one together, and even then it was rough at the dress rehearsal. It came together at the performance, however. Each of the soprano parts were the same but offset by 2 measures. When we sang each part by ourselves, it was relatively easy and had a pretty sound. When we put all 6 soprano parts together, it took on a different sound because of the harmonies. When we added in the rest of the altos/tenors/basses, the entire piece took on a life of its own, and it was stunning. I actually got goosebumps while singing it, and usually I'm concentrating on the music and don't get carried away like that. I was so surprised at how great it sounded like done well all together that I nearly lost my place in the music. Granted, rock/rap isn't the same as choral music by any stretch of the imagination, but I think they could apply more of the concepts.

 

I don't think a lot of singers/musicians take enough advantage of the vocal as well as instrument harmonies to produce pieces that are outstanding. Sure, they produce good stuff, but I like it when they take the extra steps to coordinate everything and create a truly great sound. That's not to say it doesn't happen, because it does, but not as often as it could. Unfortunately, most groups aren't together long enough to be able to work with each other to achieve that kind of truly complex music--the industry's way too quick to move onto the next hot young group.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

I only know of one rapper who can actually sing well, and that's Jamie Fox. He can play piano too.

[Achilles]

I also don't like music that screams at me.

 

I enjoy things like Metallica, System of a down is alright, Linkin Park.

 

<snip>

 

Rage against the machine

:lol:

 

That's the best thing I've seen all day!

[Prime]

Trying to compare performance styles is like forcing people to choose between chocolate and vanilla;

True, but IMO there is a difference between liking a style of music and recognizing that they have talent. For example, I don't like bands like Our Lady Peace or Red Hot Chilli Peppers very much, but I recognize that they have musical ability. On the other hand, 50 Cent, Britany Spears, and the Backstreet Boys have none.

 

Okay, here's a little challenge for anyone who thinks rap takes more talent than rock.

 

First, get a few rap CDs. The good stuff, whatever you think that might be. Sit in your bedroom, and rap along with the CD. Just imitate whatever the rapper does the way he/she does it. See how long it takes you to replicate their efforts.

 

Then go get a few rock or metal CDs. Doesn't have to be super-hard to technical stuff like Steve Vai or early Van Halen or Megadeth, hell, grab AC/DC or ZZ Top or something basic. Once you've done that, pick up a guitar or bass or a pair of drumsticks, and see how long it takes you to do exactly what they're doing.

 

See which takes longer.

But that is hardly a fair comparison.

 

A closer comparison would be to say take a rap song and learn how to rhyme it and take a Metalica song and learn how to sing it. In both cases you are only learning the vocal side. You might not like their music, but I would argue that (pre-Bobby Brown) Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey have more talent vocally than the majority of rappers and rockers.

 

A more accurate test would be to learn the guitar or bass as you say and learn how to mix and scratch on some turntables. Neither is easy to do well. For example, how long do you think it would take you to learn the following routine?

 

 

Doesn't look so easy, does it.

 

Rap is lame, real lame. The only rap i like is eminem and Rage against the machine. Rock requires more talent end of story. How many rappers can sing and play guitar just like the lead singer of Metallica? None probably.

Here's some...

 

 

Here there are live (second song)

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MhUzTlSguiQ

 

Just for starters.

 

You have a point astrotoy, but you have to admit, most rappers aren't that good...

Most? Probably. Certainly most that get mainstream radio and TV play. The same can probably be said for most rockers. There is always going to be more bad than good in most genres.

 

It isn't an issue whether you like them or not, just remember not to take what is mainstream as the best of the genre.

[Darth333]

I can't say which one requires more talent. I've been in all kinds of music from rock to baroque, including experimental electroacoustic music and I can only say that good music with a certain degree of complexity and creativity requires good musicians. There are talented and less talented musicians in all kinds of music, including rap and rock...unfortunately the people who succeed the most are not always the most talented and creative.

 

However, learning to play a musical instrument for real (I'm not talking about the level of the average guitar slinger) requires more time and dedication than anything else (my law studies required much less work and time than my music degree and they almost felt like endless vacations in comparison ). Learning to play a musical instrument decently goes way beyond the simple ability to reproduce rhythm, melodies and chords. In a sort of way, it can compare to a high level sport.

[MTV2]

its easy to make up rhymes takes like a month to make up a good song and anyone can speak.

 

but it takes years to master the guitar like Jimi Hendrix or Van Halen or better. or even drums.

[MdKnightR]

:lol:

 

That's the best thing I've seen all day!

 

 

My sentiments exactly! But, even as much as I hate Metallica for their role in the downfall of the original Napster, I'd much rather listen to them than NWA.