Your view on homework

[Jae Onasi]

Meh. Everyone does it at least once in their life. I know I did. And all my friends. (back in high school, if we forgot to do our homework and the teacher already said (s)he'd check it.)

 

And this somehow makes it right? All this means is that a whole lot of people are dishonest at least once in life.

[igyman]

And this somehow makes it right? All this means is that a whole lot of people are dishonest at least once in life.

I never said that makes it right. I'm just saying it's not a big deal, it isn't shocking. Nothing that deserves getting particularly upset about.

[Jeff]

Depends on what class it's in. Homework in a class like Math or Science is useful because actually doing the problems helps you remember them better than just reading or looking at examples. Homework in classes like English/Literature or Social Studies is just busywork.

[Commander Obi-Wan]

I think homework is necessary to do. I haven't really done my homework this term and my marks dropped significantly. And that's not a good thing. And maybe it is just me and homework would help me increase my mark. So, I think homework would help if you are striving for high marks.

[milo]

Depends on what class it's in. Homework in a class like Math or Science is useful because actually doing the problems helps you remember them better than just reading or looking at examples. Homework in classes like English/Literature or Social Studies is just busywork.

I'd say that pretty much sums my thoughts on the issue. In any class where you need to learn specific concepts (math, science, etc.), homework is crucial to helping you understand. In a class that's mostly memorization (history, human anatomy, etc.), actually receiving an assignment and doing problems isn't much more effective than just studying the material and taking a test.

[Q]

Like mimartin, I NEVER wasted my time doing the teachers' mind-numbing busywork. I'd just pay attention in class and ace the tests and quizzes. In doing so I managed to average a B most of the time, and I NEVER cheated. Needless to say, I was not very popular with most of the teachers or the over-achieving brown-nosers. I see myself as a shining example of what a cruel joke K-12 is, as most of the brainwashing crap taught there doesn't apply in the real world, and therefore isn't worth learning in the first place.

 

College, on the other hand, is a COMPLETELY different story, and my utter lack of study habits really hurt me there. I still don't regret blowing off K-12, though. It's a ridiculous waste of youth if you ask me, and little more than glorified daycare.

[Vaelastraz]

It depends. Judge for yourself which homework it would be wise to do and which you can copy.

 

I'm in my last year of what is called "middle school" (high school) and I don't do homework myself, except the important ones. Essays, and some math homework. That's it. No reason to work hours and hours, how you put it. But I'm curious, do you really need hours for homework? It was never that way for me..

I'm good at school. A to B.

[Master Jimmy]

I hate homework. It is the worse schoolwork ever invented. I'd rather do all work in school and nowhere else. Oh well, at least I haven't got homework over my Christmas holiday.

I only had to get some stuff I missed due to a cancelled hockey tournament. But other than that, I'm free.

[Mace MacLeod]

Well, those of you in high school who think you're being given too much to do, get used to it. Homework is absolutely essential to the learning process, even with the stuff you'll never actually wind up using in the real world. Why? You're learning how to learn. Learning how to bang stuff into your head (even if it's boring or irrelevant) is a skill you won't be able to do without when you hit college, university, or work. And believe me, work is far less forgiving than any educational setting. Do poorly on a test or exam, hey, there's always ways to make up for it later on. Screw up because you can't learn how to do your job properly and *poof* no more job. It's a completely uncaring world out there that doesn't care if you starve to death, so you'd better learn how to pick stuff up with a minimum of supervision. Ain't no way around it.

 

Just remember, the world of school prepares you for the world of work, which also sucks.

[Phantom Joker]

Personally, I hate the fact that you have to take school with you home. And you can't just forget about it when you come home.

Get used to it. Unless the primary piece of equipment of your future career is a broom, you'll be taking work home with you.

[Emperor Devon]

And this is bad how?

 

Oh, don't you even get me started...

 

I see myself as a shining example of what a cruel joke K-12 is, as most of the brainwashing crap taught there doesn't apply in the real world, and therefore isn't worth learning in the first place.

 

I agree with you on 9/13s of that.

 

Grades K-12 I have found to be an extreme disappointment. There isn't a single thing you learn there that you couldn't do so yourself, and more effectively. I've gotten a far better education by researching and reading about things myself than anything high school and before has taught me. I've corrected teachers on my favorite subjects an embarrassing amount of times before. Pretty much everything I heard was either something I'd learned myself years before that (and not as detailed either) or something I would have absolutely no use for. The quadratic formula? Please. That's one of the lesser subjects.

 

However, the years in high school actually do matter. However poor the education is, colleges require some sort of proof you're not an idiot, whether it's high marks (unfortunately, a simple thing to obtain) or impressive extracirricular activites. Otherwise, they would simply let in students based on interviews with them.

 

K-8 years you can blow off however you please, as long as you don't flunk the class. In middle school, I probably baffled a lot of the staff there in how I could know more about some subjects than they did, but only pass the class at a C+ or so average. The reason? In those grades, there is no incentive at all to try. If you get an A+ over a C-, will it count towards your future? Will colleges notice or care about it. No, they won't. There's no benefit at all from trying, so if mediocre grades will count the same as good ones, there's no point in even getting them.

 

But a good aspect of school is the social one. If hundreds of people the same age have to see each other 5 days a week, 6 hours each day, chances are they're going to develop friendships with their peers and learn social skills. A good chunk of them probably wouldn't spend that much time with other people normally. Even if the students and the teachers can't give you much of an education knowledge-wise, you'll still get to meet people and have great memories about them. Although there were few individuals in high school and before who actually taught me something, I was able to meet awesome people who I wouldn't have normally.

 

College, on the other hand, is a COMPLETELY different story, and my utter lack of study habits really hurt me there. I still don't regret blowing off K-12, though. It's a ridiculous waste of youth if you ask me, and little more than glorified daycare.

 

Most of it. HS better prepares you to deal with college, where there's actually a point in doing well.

[Anakin Skywalker]

I hate homework. It is the worse schoolwork ever invented. I'd rather do all work in school and nowhere else. Oh well, at least I haven't got homework over my Christmas holiday.

 

I hate Homework and School work period... but thankfully, I was in a generation of the average people, what we are doing in high school this year, 6th Graders are doing in middle school....

[Diego Varen]

I hate Homework and School work period... but thankfully, I was in a generation of the average people, what we are doing in high school this year, 6th Graders are doing in middle school....

 

I hate school too, but if homework weren't a part of school life, I wouldn't like it as much. I always do my homework, but sometimes the teachers forget to ask for it, or get reminded.

[Jae Onasi]

I never said that makes it right. I'm just saying it's not a big deal, it isn't shocking. Nothing that deserves getting particularly upset about.

It's theft. Not of anything tangible, but it's still theft of ideas, and it's wrong and should not be allowed. Yes, it _is_ a big deal. Kids that do that in high school tend to try it in college, and a lot of them will get away with it from time to time. It's nothing more than laziness, and it is a very bad habit to get into.

 

At some point they'll get caught, usually with papers, because I guarantee you that their freshman writing is not nearly as good as the professional writing of the source they're plagiarizing. When I was a TA, a girl plagiarized entire sections out of the _textbook_ for her paper, like I wouldn't notice when I read through it. Her excuse? "My friends said it would be OK." I had absolutely no qualms about giving her a failing grade on that paper, and would have sent her to the academics standards committee per university policy to get kicked out of the university since plagiarism (and the penalty for it) was very clearly defined at the beginning of the course. The professor decided to give her a zero for the paper (and thus an F for the course) instead.

 

If it's 'not a big deal' to steal ideas, at what point does that theft suddenly become a big deal? When professors plagiarize when writing their own books? Taking proprietary ideas from the company we work for? Taking credit for someone else's patent ideas? If we allow plagiarism in high school, why not college? If allowed in college, why not real life? Would you like to go to a doctor who you knew cheated through some of the coursework to get his or her degree? It's an issue that needs to be stopped from the very beginning, not when someone enters a career after earning a degree with someone else's work.

[RC-1162]

well, we certainly know what annoys Jae most now

i think iggy means to say that minor plagiarism can be excused at a level uptill max 10th grade. of course, i understand research and original work is a must in college, but face it, with the deadlines and limited resources we get, we have to go for the less time consuming method.

however, i , personally strive as much as i can to re-write my source material in my own words since i have ease with creative writing.

[Point Man]

Indulge me while I tell a little story...

 

I went to school with a guy who all the way through high school was labeled as "The Class Brain." CB did his homework assignments (which were minimal--we went to a small high school in a rural area) only because he had to, and he got excellent grades. As a Junior, he set our high school record on the American College Test by scoring a 33--in the top 1% of the nation. Everyone knew this guy would do great in college.

 

I went to the same college as CB, so I got to see what happened to him. He saw how homework was not required in college, and said, "Great! I don't need to do any homework. I can go to class, take notes, read the book if I feel like it, and I'll do well. After all, I'm "The Class Brain."

 

College started out pretty well. The freshman courses were not too demanding, so CB made the Dean's List first semester. His second semester, he dropped off the Dean's List. From there, his grades took a nose dive. He took Calculus I and did not do his homework, but somehow squeaked out a C. He took General Chemistry II and made a D because he did not do his lab reports. He had a genetics class where he made a score of 12% on one test, but got a C in the course only because the professor would not give him the F he really deserved.

 

By the second semester of his second year, the F's started coming. Calculus II blew him out of the water because his lack of work in Calc I left him unprepared. He took Organic Chemistry but did not open up the book until the night before the tests. Not a recipe for success. But you couldn't reason with CB. He believed he didn't need to do any homework or studying. After dropping his GPA to 2.6, he dropped out.

 

He decided to move to another town where some friends were going to college and try to get a fresh start. He had a couple of good semesters there, but then fell back into his old habits. He had one semester where his GPA was 0.6. He got kicked out of school and started working as a nursing assistant. This guy who everyone called "The Class Brain" had failed 30 hours worth of classes, his GPA was 2.36, and he was now wiping people's butts for a living.

 

Things changed for CB when he fell in love. This girl was smart, but, even more than that, she worked hard in college and made good grades. In one of her less lucid moments, she married him despite his laziness. She served as an inspiration to CB.

 

Then the funniest thing happened. CB decided to go back to school, and he even started working for his grades. He took anatomy and medical terminology at a community college, worked hard, and made A's. He had to work full time to support himself and his wife while she went to professional school, so he only went to school part time. But he did well. In fact, he continued making all A's.

 

After a few moves, CB got a job at a hospital affiliated with Northwestern University. They had a great program of paying 75% of his tuition while we went to night school. It was tough for him to go to school because he had a full time job, a long commute (2.5 hours each way), two small children, and served in the Army Reserve. But he was committed to finishing up his degree. Twice a week, he would leave the house at 4:20 am and not get home until 11:30 pm. He was living on 4 hours of sleep a night for 3 years as he worked to get his degree.

 

When he graduated, he had completed his last 63 hours of college with 19 A's and 2 A minuses. His GPA at Northwestern was 3.98, magna cum laude. He has to be the only person in the history of Northwestern University to graduate magna cum laude with 30 hours of F's on his transcripts.

 

As you have probably guessed, that guy was me. I learned a lot in college, but the most important thing I learned was the toughest lesson for me to get through my thick skull. It matters not how smart you are. What matters is how hard you work. Succeeding in any endeavor is wholly dependent on the amount of work you put into it.

 

Another valuable lesson I learned along the way is that only things you have worked for carry any significance to you. The honors in high school that I got just for showing up mean nothing to me. The honors I got from Northwestern because I worked my tail off? Those are something I can be proud of.

[El Sitherino]

I personally don't see a point to homework. I had all AP classes, never did any of my homework, aced my tests and graduated with honors. Sure minor repetition of problems helps you learn, but usually by the end of class it was easy to remember.

[Vaelastraz]

Right now in my last year of high school, I don't do any homwork, except essays and some math. And I get a lot of A's and some B's. However, I pay attention during the lessons (my classmates like tochat the whole time..), and I try to understand instead of learning by heart.

 

I really think it depends... Do the homework in subjects where you need the practise. copy the rest.

But I guess I will have to change my lazy attitude somewhat when I go to a university...

 

EDIT: Wow I'm dumb. I've already posted the same in this thread. Thought it was another one. ts.

[El Sitherino]

If your general concept of learning is understanding principles rather than repeating what is told to you, college won't be too difficult.

[Jae Onasi]

of course, i understand research and original work is a must in college, but face it, with the deadlines and limited resources we get, we have to go for the less time consuming method.

however, i , personally strive as much as i can to re-write my source material in my own words since i have ease with creative writing.

 

That's a load of bovine excreta.

 

There is never going to be a good excuse for academic dishonesty. If you're 'too busy' to do your homework, you need to give up some of those outside activities and fun things that are time-wasters.

 

I had just as limited resources as anyone else in high school, and never once copied from someone or cheated on a test, so telling me 'it can't be done' isn't going to fly. I spent a night a week with our church youth group (when I didn't have a major test or paper due the next day), was in a foreign language club, participated in minor parts for school plays, and volunteered every Friday at the local hospital on top of school. I came home every afternoon and spent several hours on homework every day. My senior year I had a college-level physics course, English for college, pre-calculus, my 5th year of French (equivalent to a junior level course in college), honors economics, and fortran, so I had very difficult classes. I worked my butt off to get good grades. What did I have to give up? A lot of TV. A good chunk of pleasure reading. A lot of time that I spent playing video games. Going out on weeknights with friends. Some of my weekend time playing around if I had a big project or test that coming week.

 

It was worth the work. I wouldn't be a professional today if I hadn't learned some good study habits and time management in high school, or put the extra effort into the hard courses that gave me an excellent grounding for college level work (and 14 free semester hours in French--nothing to sneeze at).

 

And if you're going to spend the time 're-writing' your source material, just go to a tiny bit more effort and do your own research and writing yourself. You'll learn a whole lot more that way. You're cheating yourself as much as anyone else, otherwise.

[igyman]

It's theft. Not of anything tangible, but it's still theft of ideas

I'm guessing what I used to get for homework was a lot different from what you used to get from your teachers and I'm guessing that's the reason you're getting so worked up about this.

When someone mentions homework to me I think of a set of questions that need to be answered, a set of sentences that need to be translated (English, but fortunately I never had problems with this subject, heh heh), a set of math problems that need to be solved, etc. I'm guessing that for you homework meant writing a paper on a particular subject, doing a research, or reading books and then discussing them (well, I had this one too, but I don't know if there's an English term for it). I think this is why our opinions on the matter of cheating of this type differ. Am I right?

[HerbieZ]

It's different for everyone. I was and am fairly smart and always concentrated at school and college. I was a geek and did not many friends because of such. Had i known i would be at the job centre looking for a job after 6 months of being jobless, i would have slacked off from day one. Biggest waste of time in my life school was. Because it's all well and good working towards those grades but for me it meant sweet fa.

[Samuel Dravis]

Homework's very important. Generally you have a harder time making the grade if you don't do the work. I didn't like it much in HS because it was the same concepts every single year, but in college homework is a lot more interesting.

[Emperor Devon]

That's quite the story you have, Jimbo! I'm very impressed you went through all that to get your degree.

 

There is never going to be a good excuse for academic dishonesty. If you're 'too busy' to do your homework, you need to give up some of those outside activities and fun things that are time-wasters.

 

I agree with you when it comes to papers, but minor things like homework assignments I think it's okay to 'cheat' a little on them. I've yet to meet anyone who never in high school said something like "Hey Bob, what'd you get on #17? Y=6x-2? Thanks." Most everyone will do at some point.

 

As you saw in that example, it's obviously a math one, and a simple one at that. While doing the problem yourself would have reinforced the concept, what if you already understand it? It's mindless busywork to repeat something you know by heart every day (not to say practice is bad, though). I did that for the subjects I didn't like somewhat often in high school, and I still passed the classes with good grades. And as one one problem on one homework assignment isn't going to count towards you grade very much, it's not really plagiarism. You can still get an A+ if you miss some problems.

 

Besides, what if the subject is utterly useless to you? I loved philosiphy, economics, politics and history before I started high school. Would algebra or biology be of much use to me? Of course not. For the subjects you don't intend to practice in real life, the main objective is to pass the class with a good grade, not to have a true and lasting understanding of pointless material.

 

In short: Minor cheating for useful subjects = bad. Minor cheating for useless subjects = a-okay, just fine, etcetera.

[Jae Onasi]

I'm guessing what I used to get for homework was a lot different from what you used to get from your teachers and I'm guessing that's the reason you're getting so worked up about this.

When someone mentions homework to me I think of a set of questions that need to be answered, a set of sentences that need to be translated (English, but fortunately I never had problems with this subject, heh heh), a set of math problems that need to be solved, etc. I'm guessing that for you homework meant writing a paper on a particular subject, doing a research, or reading books and then discussing them (well, I had this one too, but I don't know if there's an English term for it). I think this is why our opinions on the matter of cheating of this type differ. Am I right?

 

Depended on the subject, but most involved daily work of some sort in addition to major projects every semester. Math or physics--we'd get a set of problems to solve every day if we didn't have tests that day or the next. There were weekly lab reports to do in physics, and I had a major term paper for it as well for the year.

English--short essays to write, word definitions, read a certain short story, write out sentences with correct grammar, etc. We had at least one major term paper (5+ pages) to research and write per semester.

French--translate sentences, read something, or write a short (i.e. 1 page or less) essay. We had to write a term paper on a French novel that we read outside of class.

Econ--near-daily short assignments on different econ concepts, and following the stock market every day.

 

Some of it people would undoubtedly consider to be 'busywork', but that repetition was essential in something like math or French, and it built skills in time management and efficient study techniques.