Kreia Fans Unite!

[Tysyacha]

Did anyone actually like Kreia in TSL besides me? Please post here

if you did, because most of the people I know on LF hated her.

 

I thought she was one of the best Star Wars villains, and I loved

interacting with her. She's going to be in my next fic, too, so I'd

like to know who might read it without being annoyed at that!

 

Sincerely,

Tysyacha Dvukh, Jedi Exile, Apprentice of Kreia

[SilentScope001]

Well, she's an awesome character. Kreia wanted to kill off The Force, using The Exile, which is a pretty intersting concept. She's a really awesome Star Wars villian.

 

She's also a manlipautor and a liar, I love those qualities in a person. So, yes, I (and my DSM Exile) like her. Even my DSM Exile tried to redeem Kreia at the end, wanting to learn more from her and follow in her footsteps: Kreia refused, however, as she does not want to make The Exile weaker, and want The Exile to rely on himself, to fight in the future. The Exile is the creation of Kreia, after all, the proof that her teachings are right.

 

Just wait until K3 when The Exile becomes Darth Nihilus and prove Kreia's teachings wrong.

 

EDIT: Oh, and I don't think Kreia wants fanboys and fangirls. She just want people to understand her teachings are true. Well, I accept her teachings.

[Jeff]

I thought her character had the best development out of any of the TSL characters. I thought she was a great character for that.

[Emperor Devon]

Yeah, Kreia!

 

She was easily the best character in TSL, if not all KotOR. I found her backstory of constant betrayals and her views on what was at fault for it to be very interesting and original, even moreso than the others Sith Lords in TSL.

 

The idea that she'd actually hate the Force is totally original, and an excellent twist. She's more of a nihilist than Nihilus in some respects - she doesn't want to destroy all life, she wants to destroy what makes that life possible. She was darker than all the Sith in that respect - she fell from the dark side to absolute nihilism, yet was convinced she was a savior for it.

 

I like manipulative Sith Lords much more than normal "me kill all Jedi!1!11" ones, but Kreia was exceptional even amongst ones like those. Though Palpatine was a great villain, he really just wanted power for the sake of power and didn't have a lot of a backstory (though not to bash him - he was an excellent villain). Kreia was better in how she had a genuine reason for her goals, other than simple greed, and carried them out through the entire game - the moments where she would blackmail Atton or toy with the Disciple were a new kind of manipulation in SW in some respects. Palpatine would engineer events of galaxy-wide proportions to suit is goals, but Kreia dealt with individuals, and had a much more interesting web of lies and deceptions in some respects than he did - yet at the same time her little lies could still result in giant battles (when she deceived Tobin about Telos) and the like.

 

She's got an interesting backstory, original goals she wants for a genuine reason, and is a great NPC to talk with - what's not to like?

[Jae Onasi]

She's kind of like JR on Dallas or Prince Humperdinck in the Princess Bride--you just love to hate them.

[Emperor Devon]

She's kind of like JR on Dallas or Prince Humperdinck in the Princess Bride--you just love to hate them.

 

*Devon throws Atlas Shrugged at Jae*

[SilentScope001]

Though Palpatine was a great villain, he really just wanted power for the sake of power and didn't have a lot of a backstory (though not to bash him - he was an excellent villain).

 

Actually, there is a different interpertion. Johnaton V. Last, the writer of "The Case for the Empire" speculates that Palpatine wanted to overthrow the Republic in order to create an 'orderly' society. He got angry at the slow bureacracy of the Republic, guarded by an elitle order of arrogant Force-Users (Jedi), and decided that the only way to reform and save the Republic was to go and take it over, turning it into The Empire. Sort of like a new Darth Traya.

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/248ipzbt.asp

 

Really interesting, altough I just know George Lucas would see it as non-canon.

 

EDIT: Here's a quote

 

When Palpatine is still a senator, he says, "The Republic is not what it once was. The Senate is full of greedy, squabbling delegates. There is no interest in the common good." At one point he laments that "the bureaucrats are in charge now."

 

Palpatine believes that the political order must be manipulated to produce peace and stability. When he mutters, "There is no civility, there is only politics," we see that at heart, he's an esoteric Straussian.

 

Make no mistake, as emperor, Palpatine is a dictator--but a relatively benign one, like Pinochet. It's a dictatorship people can do business with. They collect taxes and patrol the skies. They try to stop organized crime (in the form of the smuggling rings run by the Hutts). The Empire has virtually no effect on the daily life of the average, law-abiding citizen.

[Master Demonius]

what is a nihilist

[SithRevan]

I personally loved her character because it was so deep but if we were talking about her individually... I can't say that I liked her very much. She just seemed too sinister, and was always very hard on the rest of the party.

[SilentScope001]

what is a nihilist

 

The Nihlists were a terrorist organization in Russia that wanted to destroy everything: religion, government, everything. They saw the whole system as corrupt and wanted to destroy everything so that a new system can be formed. I call them an "atheistic" terrorist group since they don't believe in religion.

 

"Nihilist political philosophy rejected all religious and political authority, social traditions, and traditional morality as standing in opposition to freedom, the ultimate ideal. Although Nihilism greatly resembled Anarchism it did not see the State as absolutely bad. Reforms that would lead to fundamental changes in society were considered possible. The Nihilism movement was not advocating belief in nothing, which supposes that human existence has no purpose, meaning, or value. What they had in common was a belief that the existing establishment had no value."

 

Nihlism, the philopshy gets its name from the terrorist group, which suggests that all life is meaingless.

 

"Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position which argues that the world, especially past and current human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally assert some or all of the following: there is no reasonable proof of the existence of a higher ruler or creator, a "true morality" is unknown, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no truth, and no action is known to be preferable to any other.[1] Nihilism is often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche, though Nietzsche explicitly repudiated it."

 

Usually, Nihlism is a taunt that people use against philopshies they hate...few people actually call themselves Nihlists.

[Diego Varen]

When I first played TSL, I liked her at first, got sick of her and then started to like her again. As someone has already mentioned, she was one of TSL's only party member who had been made to her full potential. For me, she was a much better mentor figure than Bastila. I'll still always prefer Sion though.

[Darth InSidious]

I...thought she was an excellent character, and one of the best put-together parts of the game.

 

Did I *like* her?

 

Put it this way...She's one I'd leave *off* the birthday invites list

[Arátoeldar]

Kreia is definitely one of if not the best NPC character to grace an RPG game.

 

Did I like her personally? No.

[EnIgmA_XX]

I also think that Kreia is one of the best; if not the best villain that I've ever seen. Many people hate her, but she doesn't really care about that, does she? All she cared about were her teachings. In a sense, being annoying was a large part of her character, and she acted out her character so well, which is probably why so many people hate her. To me, this just proves more how well made of a character she is.

[Titanius Anglesmith]

Kreia is definitely the best character from both games. When you've got a character where you love her and hate her at the same time, you know you've got one heck of a character.

 

When I first played TSL, I didn't like her at all. I just skipped over most of her dialogue, but once I started listening, there was no turning back.

[Q]

Loved every devious, conniving bit of her.

*Devon throws Atlas Shrugged at Jae*

Holy crap! You're reading that book, too?

[Jediphile]

I'm ambivalent about Kreia.

 

Like Garak on DS9, she's a fantastic character. But she's not very nice, and I'd be afraid to be in a room with her. And if she said water was wet, I'd immediately check with three other people before I believed her

 

I'm also ambivalent about her cause. She wants to destroy the Force? Well, actually she wants to destroy the will of the force, but then how do you separate the two? Destroying it could mean the end to all life, so that makes Kreia evil.

 

However, she hates the force because it dictates the lives of everybody and lets them die by the thousands to serve its own unseen agenda like some evil god. Opposing that makes Kreia look benevolent, because her motivation is the manipulation of the people, and she is quite willing to sacrifice her own life to her cause. In that sense, Kreia becomes a satanic or byronic heroine, because she does what she does out of defiance against authority out of a desire for a sense of freedom. Not just for herself, but for everybody. She's rather like a slightly more benevolent version of Captain Ahab from Melville's "Moby Dick", who is at war with god, as represented by a large, white whale.

 

And then again, while Kreia's cause may seem motivated by idealism, she is quite willing to manipulate and even sacrifice others in the pursuit of her goals. That undermines and taints the validity of the otherwise benevolent cause she pursues, again making her evil.

 

That's what I like about her. She's a complex character. You never quite know where you got her. She never tells the truth, but she never quite tells a lie either. She's a crafty old hag. I rather like her

[lukeiamyourdad]

Well written, wanted to kill her at the first occasion I had...and that's when playing a fully lightsided character. Same thing if I'm playing a darksider but that's more out of pure bloodlust.

 

In a way, having a manipulative character like Kreia is fun throughout the game, but at the same time, it makes the ending a bit anticlimactic. It didn't feel the same as slaying Malak.

 

I disagree about one thing though, I think HK-47 is the best written character. A manipulative old hag only stays in your mind for so long, a humourous homicidal droid stays in it forever At least that's what I consider truly great characters, those that stay with you.

 

 

Actually, there is a different interpertion. Johnaton V. Last, the writer of "The Case for the Empire" speculates that Palpatine wanted to overthrow the Republic in order to create an 'orderly' society. He got angry at the slow bureacracy of the Republic, guarded by an elitle order of arrogant Force-Users (Jedi), and decided that the only way to reform and save the Republic was to go and take it over, turning it into The Empire. Sort of like a new Darth Traya.

 

Or he was simply a Sith and wanted to dominate the entire galaxy...like most Sith...you know, it's not like he was never a Sith and only fell to reorder the society. There's no indication of him ever being anything else then a Sith and considering that only two Sith exist at the same time, not much room for falling...Some people look too deep for nothing.

[SilentScope001]

I'm also ambivalent about her cause. She wants to destroy the Force? Well, actually she wants to destroy the will of the force, but then how do you separate the two? Destroying it could mean the end to all life, so that makes Kreia evil.

 

Ah, but didn't The Exile live without the Force? If the Exile can do it...why can't others? What could be possible is that Kreia wanted to create a huge Echo that would destroy MOST life in the galaxy. The suriviors would be the ones who either fell to the Dark Side, or to Cut themselves off from the Force. Those who would cut themselves off from the Force would be just as powerful as The Exile would be, and would easily slaughter off the Dark Side. Then the suriviors would rebuild society, and create a new order, one without light or dark...only caring for humanity. (Maybe she should have succeded...maybe she should have done such a deed...but then again, nobody wants to read a story about a Utopia.)

[Jediphile]

Ah, but didn't The Exile live without the Force?

 

Actually, I would assume not given what we know. The exile thought he had been forbidden from using the force, but had really cut his own bond to the force, and yet continued to leech force through his bonds with others. In short, while he cut his own pipeline to the force, he was still connected to it by extension. So no, I would conclude that the exile didn't live without the force.

 

If the Exile can do it...why can't others? What could be possible is that Kreia wanted to create a huge Echo that would destroy MOST life in the galaxy. The suriviors would be the ones who either fell to the Dark Side, or to Cut themselves off from the Force. Those who would cut themselves off from the Force would be just as powerful as The Exile would be, and would easily slaughter off the Dark Side. Then the suriviors would rebuild society, and create a new order, one without light or dark...only caring for humanity. (Maybe she should have succeded...maybe she should have done such a deed...but then again, nobody wants to read a story about a Utopia.)

 

I suppose that's possible, though I doubt it. I think even Kreia realised that would push things too far. She seems far more concerned with actually having her own teachings proven correct and be accepted by the jedi masters.

 

Kreia wants to unveil and expose the truth about the force, and she wants recognition for her convictions. In the end, she really is a scholar who wants acceptance for her theories, and she doesn't seem to care much for those, who don't measure up to her level of knowledge and insight - just look at how she condescends to Atton and the droids, for example.

 

Her teachings and those she deems able to fathom them is what she cares about. The jedi rejected her teachings, however, so she went to the sith, but they just threw her out. So she wanted to punish the sith for their ignorance and force the jedi to face the truth. It is only when the jedi refuse to do so even with the truth undeniably exposed to them that she resorts to lethal force.

 

So I'd label Kreia as more of a scholar than a crusader - she seems to care more about the truth of her theories than she does about actually enforcing the consequences they suggest.

[SilentScope001]

It is only when the jedi refuse to do so even with the truth undeniably exposed to them that she resorts to lethal force.

 

You'd be better off showing Kreia's darker side by showing the DS verison of events as well. Kreia is angry that you killed off the Jedi Masters and knocked you unconsisus as well. "Countless murders, assians, born of war that has always taught the wrong lessons! You are responsible for all this, even now events spiral beyond your contorl because you refuse to listen, to understand."

 

Don't forget, she'll hate anyone who reject her teachings, even The Exile himself.

 

But yeah, I can get your point. In some cases, I'm a scholar interested in proving theories right, not exactly exploring the so-called consquences. I see your point, but I just do not want her teachings to be dismissed just like that. (Don't forget the always nagging doubt that Kreia could also be lying..., one of the hallmarks of Kreia.)

 

EDIT: Where I got that theory from:

 

Atris: "Now she seeks to create another echo, bigger than the one before, bigger than the one you cause. You resisted it once, but they are few who would be able to do such things, especially if they were unprepared."

 

This is a rough transalation of what she said.

 

Atris: "It is because she cared for you, and you hold a place in her heart where nothing else lives. You must go there, because you can stop what is to come."

 

Another rough transalation.

[Hallucination]

Kreia is easily the most well thought out character in K2, and is definitely unique. However, she's a bloody cow and I hate her.

[Jediphile]

You'd be better off showing Kreia's darker side by showing the DS verison of events as well. Kreia is angry that you killed off the Jedi Masters and knocked you unconsisus as well. "Countless murders, assians, born of war that has always taught the wrong lessons! You are responsible for all this, even now events spiral beyond your contorl because you refuse to listen, to understand."

 

I know, but Kreia actually comes off as "nicer" there IMHO, since she scholds the exile for killing the masters.

 

Don't forget, she'll hate anyone who reject her teachings, even The Exile himself.

 

Naturally. The truth is Kreia's ultimate justification for anything she does. If she is proven correct, then all her struggles and all the sacrifices have been worthwhile and justified in her view, because they all served to establish the truth.

 

But yeah, I can get your point. In some cases, I'm a scholar interested in proving theories right, not exactly exploring the so-called consquences. I see your point, but I just do not want her teachings to be dismissed just like that. (Don't forget the always nagging doubt that Kreia could also be lying..., one of the hallmarks of Kreia.)

 

Little chance of her teachings being dismissed the way TSL turned out, I think.

 

Yet I don't think lying is a hallmark for Kreia. Yes, it seems to be, but note how her truths are always 50% lies and her lies 60% truth. She really does remind me of Garak on Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

 

Bashir: "Of all the stories you told me, which ones were true, and which ones weren't?"

 

Garak: "Oh, my dear doctor. They're all true."

 

Bashir: "Even the lies?"

 

Garak: "Especially the lies!"

 

Kreia could have said just the same, if she had just a little bit of humor

[Master Zionosis]

Kreia in my opinion is the best character in K2, i love her personality, the way she acts so cryptic and that she is very manipulative, i just love that in a character, maybe it's because I'm just like Kreia, , well not really, but i would like to be.

[Rabish Bini]

Best character in KotOR so far, except for HK-47.

She was manipulative, evil and rude, and her teachings are kinda... real. Like on Nar Shaddaa when you give the beggar money, and she says you might have caused more pain, and then a cutscene shows him getting mugged.

Overall: Awesome