Lucasarts and Bioware Corp. partnership OFFICIAL - At last

[Negative Sun]

I totally agree with Jediphile though, if it has to be set in the general KotOR era, please don't let it be part of K1 and/or 2 and just go a different direction with it, so KotOR 3 still has a chance to be great when it comes...

[The Architect]

Hell, another thing you have to consider is; how could KotOR3 even work as a MMORPG when there are barely any Jedi left by the nearby post-TSL era, which is what K3 should be set in, if you wanted it to have any meaningful connection to K1 & K2.

[John Galt]

I totally agree with Jediphile though, if it has to be set in the general KotOR era, please don't let it be part of K1 and/or 2 and just go a different direction with it, so KotOR 3 still has a chance to be great when it comes...

 

I think it would, just so they could have more sociopolitical situations to play with, regarding factions.

 

I hope they start out during the Exar Kun War, or maybe the Mandolorian Wars, just so they have a lot of history to play with before they start infringing on KotOR 1 and 2. Which, truthfully, all they'd have to do is avoid a few planets, it's not like Star Wars has any shortage of interesting locales to play with.

[Taos]

Besides, my question remains...

 

Why should this MMORPG be set in the KotOR era, when it will both alienate a portion of the fanbase while also not fitting with the on-going plot of the previous games?

 

Because no matter what they do, they can not possibly please everyone, so why bother trying?

 

Just go anywhere from 100 to, say, 3000 years after TSL, and the deves can do pretty much whatever they want. Why is that not an option?

 

Who says it isn't? But when it comes down to it, sometimes the most simple answer is often the most accurate....

 

...And they could include the KotOR name on it. The money equation!

 

If it is in fact a mmo in the Kotor era, it's because of the all-mighty dollar.

 

Now how long of a time period is considered to be this "kotor era?"

 

 

....if it has to be set in the general KotOR era, please don't let it be part of K1 and/or 2 and just go a different direction with it, so KotOR 3 still has a chance to be great when it comes...

 

Now all things being said, I also agree with this. I would much rather have them do this because it leaves room to make a kotor 3 with a good story and it would also allow this rumored mmo more freedom.

[Corinthian]

That's no problem, Architect. Look at Galaxies! It's set at some indeterminate date around the Battle of Yavin, when almost every Jedi was supposed to be dead or hiding. Except for the ones in Theed, running around in robes and lightsabers and somehow avoiding the ire of Darth Vader.

[Jeff]

Indeed, I might equally spin it the other way and ask why you suggest that doing KotOR MMORPG won't alienate anyone and will be accepted by all when there is clear indications that is not the case.

Nothing will please everyone. I never meant to imply that I thought this.

 

And, of course, your position also does not apply to all KotOR fans.

Never said it did.

 

Besides, my question remains...

 

Why should this MMORPG be set in the KotOR era, when it will both alienate a portion of the fanbase while also not fitting with the on-going plot of the previous games?

I already answered this. The KotOR universe is arguably the most popular time period on the SW calendar outside of the movies. If the game LA is working on is an MMO, I think it would be silly for them not to capitalize on that fact and base the game in some other period.

 

In short, doing the MMORPG as part of the KotOR series will mean the KotOR games are dead to me, whereas doing the MMORPG in another time period means that I can at least still be considered a potential customer.

 

Now, which is better for LA in the long run?

An MMO, because it will keep players playing and paying for years.

 

Also I just want to add to this that I would love to see both an MMO (which is probably what they're making now) and KotOR 3, but I don't see any way this would happen. I would be very happy with either an MMO or a SPRPG from this project. However I'm defending the MMO's points because I see that to be the most likely outcome.

[The Architect]

That's no problem, Architect. Look at Galaxies! It's set at some indeterminate date around the Battle of Yavin, when almost every Jedi was supposed to be dead or hiding. Except for the ones in Theed, running around in robes and lightsabers and somehow avoiding the ire of Darth Vader.

 

Oh it is a problem. It doesn't make any sense for thousands of Jedi and Sith to suddenly be running around killing each other when umm... there's supposed to be hardly any left.

 

No explanation for it is stupid. On such a basis, you might as well just have K3 be about a massive army of Ewoks on steroids attempting to conquer the galaxy. There numbers have gone through the roof and they're now evil because umm... I made it that way.

 

LA would be foolish to disregard the awesome plot potential KotOR3 has as a SPRPG. The plot, the characters, the dialogue choices... can you have all that awesome stuff that made K1 & K2 awesome in a MMORPG? From what I've heard, you can't, so just why exactly would someone want to fix something that ain't broke?

[John Galt]

Oh it is a problem. It doesn't make any sense for thousands of Jedi and Sith to suddenly be running around killing each other when umm... there's supposed to be hardly any left.

 

No explanation for it is stupid. On such a basis, you might as well just have K3 be about a massive army of Ewoks on steroids attempting to conquer the galaxy. There numbers have gone through the roof and they're now evil because umm... I made it that way.

 

LA would be foolish to disregard the awesome plot potential KotOR3 has as a SPRPG. The plot, the characters, the dialogue choices... can you have all that awesome stuff that made K1 & K2 awesome in a MMORPG? From what I've heard, you can't, so just why exactly would someone want to fix something that ain't broke?

 

If anything, a KotOR MMO would ensure that K3 is made, as they'd eventually need more plot for the MMO. They definitely could not continue the plot of the previous two games with an MMO, and it would be supremely unwise for them to try.

 

If a MMO is made, it would most certainly be "KotOR-era," as in keeping the general aesthetic and sociopolitical climate, but would be set a little earlier, or a little later than the SPRPG's, maybe eventually overlapping in expansions. Personally I'd like it if they started with the mandalorian wars, and continued through "history" with expansions into the lull between the wars, and eventually into the early Jedi Civil War.

[smhiggz]

Hopefully this will put this arguement about storytelling (or lack thereof) in an MMORPG to rest

 

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486

 

It's a bit old but I think that it answers the questions about whether Bioware will be able to deliver an immersive storytelling experience in their mmo.

[PoiuyWired]

That's no problem, Architect. Look at Galaxies! It's set at some indeterminate date around the Battle of Yavin, when almost every Jedi was supposed to be dead or hiding. Except for the ones in Theed, running around in robes and lightsabers and somehow avoiding the ire of Darth Vader.

 

 

And except the 21437210437290 jedi players out there running around in the whole game doing stupid stuff.

[teodesetkata]

Besides, my question remains...

 

Why should this MMORPG be set in the KotOR era, when it will both alienate a portion of the fanbase while also not fitting with the on-going plot of the previous games?

 

Better make that question more main - Why should there be MMORPG in the Star Wars universe? I cannot think of a time period of the Star Wars history that will be suitable for a MMORPG game. It's just that they cannot make a good MMORPG for Star Wars, otherwise if they do, it will probably be non-canon.

 

Imagine you're playing KotOR MMO... You're facing... Revan, for example, and you battle... And in the same time some n00b is whispering you: "hey i sell blaster pistol 500 creds" or something...

 

Edit: If LA/Bio will try to suprise us with a MMORPG from Star Wars KotOR era, they will probably "invent" new factions because as I read from previous posts, not many Jedi/Sith are left in Post-TSL era. They will make a new faction like they did "Zann Consortium" in SW: EAW: FOC.

[True_Avery]

Nor have I ever said so. But it's not like I'm the only person in existence who like the KotOR games but don't want to play the KotOR MMORPG, so doing that WILL mean alienating a certain part of the KotOR community. Not all, no, and frankly I'm not sure how many, but I've scarcely been the only one here voicing that position.

Yeah, but I doubt LA is going to read your post and say "Looks like we have made some people angry... we should stop now." Yes, they will alienate you. Thats what game production is all about: Aiming for a particular audience and not caring much about the rest since they know it would be foolhearty to try and win them over. It is also about making a game that will in turn make them the most money from their target audience.

 

Indeed, I might equally spin it the other way and ask why you suggest that doing KotOR MMORPG won't alienate anyone and will be accepted by all when there is clear indications that is not the case.

Maybe one day humanity will create a game that will make all people happy...

 

You cannot make everybody happy. You just happen to fit in with the group of people that do not like the idea.

 

Why should this MMORPG be set in the KotOR era, when it will both alienate a portion of the fanbase while also not fitting with the on-going plot of the previous games?

Again, you cannot please everyone. Sure, set it in the future. You are alienating another group of people. Set it further in the past... yet again alienating. I hate to say it, but this is not about you. At all. All I am getting from your posts is that you want it your way, or you will abandon all hope and possibly throw a fit. Please, correct me if I am reading your posts wrong.

 

Do you know the plot after TSL? Do you know everything that happens far and in-between? No, and you cannot pretend you do. There is plenty of room for possible plot. You simply deny that one can exist.

 

TSL needs a spiritual sequel. It has an open ending begging for closure. Star Wars MMORPG, on the other hand, has no need of KotOR whatsoever, since this new game is a blank canvas. Just go anywhere from 100 to, say, 3000 years after TSL, and the deves can do pretty much whatever they want. Why is that not an option?

There is nobody saying that a sequel wont be made. It is unlikely, but it is possible. I doubt the actual sequel will ever be made partly because it is Obsidian's story, and only they know where the story was supposed to go. Any sequel released by anybody else will be by a different group with different veiws, as I see it highly unlikely that LA will ask help from Obsidian ever again.

 

In short, doing the MMORPG as part of the KotOR series will mean the KotOR games are dead to me, whereas doing the MMORPG in another time period means that I can at least still be considered a potential customer.

 

Now, which is better for LA in the long run?

So, it will be dead to you. Do you honestly, -honestly- think you not getting the game will cause any major problems for the MMO? Do you really think you are that important? An MMO can bring in millions a month, and you would be $15 of those millions. Sure, it would be disapointing to see some people leave the Kotor fanbase but at the same time a lot of new people would join and many existing fans would most likely still play the game, also adding the new sales of Kotor 1 and TSL for people catching up to the storyline.

 

So, which is better? Hmmm... I'm going to have to go with losing you as a customer to pull in a larger fan-base and create a cash-cow. Again, this is not about you. They make an MMO in another time block, LA will lose and gain fans. That is how the gaming industry works.

 

LA would be foolish to disregard the awesome plot potential KotOR3 has as a SPRPG. The plot, the characters, the dialogue choices... can you have all that awesome stuff that made K1 & K2 awesome in a MMORPG? From what I've heard, you can't, so just why exactly would someone want to fix something that ain't broke?

Because making an MMO has potential for much, much more money? Yes, it will be an entirely different game. So was World of Warcraft to the Warcraft games. Now Blizzard pulls in over 135 million a month in fees. They lost some fans from the original Warcraft games, but gained over 9 million players. I'd say thats a pretty good trade-off.

 

Yes, a SPRPG would be nice, but TSL's writers and holders of the storyline are in Obsidian. As I said, any sequel made by anybody else would be of different veiws and opinion on where the story should go. Not a bad thing if Bioware were to get ahold of it, but I doubt LA will go running back to Obsidian anytime soon for Kotor 3. It is possible, though. And nobody says that a Kotor 3 is never going to be made.

 

This, again, is assuming that this MMO is Star Wars and Kotor related.

 

And who knows. Maybe the MMO will bomb and they will decide to go along with a Kotor 3 SPRPG when the riots begin to grow in number.

[teodesetkata]

True Star Wars fans will not only care about the MMO's gameplay, but they care about the storyline, too. That's why I think SPRPG will be better.

[True_Avery]

True Star Wars fans will not only care about the MMO's gameplay, but they care about the storyline, too. That's why I think SPRPG will be better.

True Star Wars fans should be used to LA giving them poorly written dialog and sloppy stories (AKA Episode 1, 2, and 3, and most of the Star Wars Universe).

[Tommycat]

Lets face it, LA may have learned from the failure of SWG. And with solid gameplay and an engaging story, KotOR the MMO could destroy the financial intake SWG has. Of course that depends on IF that is what they are working on. Keep in mind that SWG STILL brings in more than KotOR even with the deminished subs. Of course that all depends on whether the rumors are true. Which, as I don't work for either Bioware Austin, nor LucasArts, I have no way of judging the validity of the rumors. It could very easily be Pirates of the Caribean the MMO, and KotOR 3 the SPRPG.

[teodesetkata]

True Star Wars fans should be used to LA giving them poorly written dialog and sloppy stories (AKA Episode 1, 2, and 3, and most of the Star Wars Universe).

I don't think SW EP 1, 2, 3 were sloppy. I think they were all right. For me the best story was that from SW KotOR 1, and I hope that BioWare will make SW KotOR 3 like SW KotOR 1.

[importedbeer]

I am an active member of the Bioware forums, and developers have been talking about their cool Bioware MMORPG for nearly a year.

 

1. It would be implausible if their MMORPG were actually based on a LA based IP- simply because they were enthusiastic about it for so long as something they have developed which in fact dealt with a lot of the problems with the traditional game play in MMORPGs. It was this MMORPG that got EA interested in them in the first place.

2. Given that they mention in the press release that this new property will be jointly written and developed by both LA and BW-it seems even more unlikely that this is their original IP based MMORPG.

3. It would be strange if Bioware developed two MMORPGs at the same time.

 

I am feel confident that this new jointly developed game is not an MMORPG. It needn't be KOTOR mind you, but it is definitely not an MMORPG IMO.

[Darth InSidious]

True Star Wars fans will not only care about the MMO's gameplay, but they care about the storyline, too. That's why I think SPRPG will be better.

Yes! Only the 144,000 shall be saved!

 

Isn't this all rather irrelevant?

 

We. Do. Not. Know. Yet.

 

Might as well sit back and get on with something else.

[importedbeer]

Because making an MMO has potential for much, much more money? Yes, it will be an entirely different game. So was World of Warcraft to the Warcraft games. Now Blizzard pulls in over 135 million a month in fees. They lost some fans from the original Warcraft games, but gained over 9 million players. I'd say thats a pretty good trade-off.

 

.

 

That is all well and good but why does everyone assume that this announcement means a KOTOR MMORPG?

 

There are advantages and disadvantages to having a KOTOR MMORPG, and thought I am squarely in the SRPG camp, I can understand *why* LA may want to create an MMORPG - especially using a really juicy franchise.

 

The fact however is, that the MMORPG currently being created by Bioware, for quite some time in my neighboring town of Austin is something Bioware has hinted at being their own property- plus something that attracted the attention of EA. While making an MMORPG may make great business sense, it would not make business sense for Bioware to make two. It also seems bizzare to suddenly claim that the property they have been speaking of with so much love and pride suddenly becomes "co-written" by someone else.

 

Look at the current releases: Mass Effect comes out in November, Dragon Age is considered a 2008 release, which leaves them with only one known title in development- Sonic. Apart from that they have the "unnamed" MMORPG which they have been talking about for quite some time.

 

Is it reasonable to presume that Bioware will make yet another MMORPG for LA? IMO- NO! Is it reasonable to assume Bioware will make another title- console, PC, or whatever for LA? Yes.

 

It is entirely possible that the MMORPG for LA may well be made by someone else and Bioware has been hired to work on another title.

[Jediphile]

Yeah, but I doubt LA is going to read your post and say "Looks like we have made some people angry... we should stop now." Yes, they will alienate you. Thats what game production is all about: Aiming for a particular audience and not caring much about the rest since they know it would be foolhearty to try and win them over. It is also about making a game that will in turn make them the most money from their target audience.

 

I remember this argument. It's exactly the same argument that the powers that be at Paramount made when they declared it "necessary" to "reinvigorate" the Star Trek franchise by going back in time and doing the Enterprise show, even if it alienated the fanbase, because they needed attract a new audience. Result? The show was cancelled and the franchise crashed and burned...

 

Maybe one day humanity will create a game that will make all people happy...

 

You cannot make everybody happy. You just happen to fit in with the group of people that do not like the idea.

 

So you shouldn't even try because you can't succeed? That's like saying I should respect nobody's opinions here, since somebody is likely to be offended in any event, and so I might just as well not bother to try in the first place...

 

Well, have it your way, but I disagree, and I will bother to try and not offend anyone.

 

Again, you cannot please everyone. Sure, set it in the future. You are alienating another group of people. Set it further in the past... yet again alienating. I hate to say it, but this is not about you. At all. All I am getting from your posts is that you want it your way, or you will abandon all hope and possibly throw a fit. Please, correct me if I am reading your posts wrong.

 

Actually, I'm far more likely to throw a fit over people on the internet who make what I consider arrogant presumptions about what I do or do not think...

 

Do you know the plot after TSL? Do you know everything that happens far and in-between? No, and you cannot pretend you do. There is plenty of room for possible plot. You simply deny that one can exist.

 

Nonsense. I have long, long since posted my own speculation for a K3 plot. If I denied that a plot could exist, that would scarcely be the case.

 

So, it will be dead to you. Do you honestly, -honestly- think you not getting the game will cause any major problems for the MMO? Do you really think you are that important?

 

Me? Absolutely not. But..

 

1. I'm not the only one voicing this position.

 

2. Do you honestly - honestly - think that you liking the idea of the MMORPG will make LA do it, even if lots of fans say they hate the idea?

 

No, I'm not that important, but then neither are you.

 

So, which is better? Hmmm... I'm going to have to go with losing you as a customer to pull in a larger fan-base and create a cash-cow. Again, this is not about you. They make an MMO in another time block, LA will lose and gain fans. That is how the gaming industry works.

 

That's just what Paramount argued for the Enterprise tv-show... Alienating the hardcore fanbase is usually a recipe for disaster, because they are the meat and potatoes of your industry that keeps you alive. Dreaming about tapping into the cashcow market of WoW or its ilk is no doubt tempting to LA, I understand that, but if they step all over their own fanbase in their lust to cash in on that market, then they could easily be putting a noose around their own necks...

 

Because making an MMO has potential for much, much more money? Yes, it will be an entirely different game. So was World of Warcraft to the Warcraft games. Now Blizzard pulls in over 135 million a month in fees. They lost some fans from the original Warcraft games, but gained over 9 million players. I'd say thats a pretty good trade-off.

 

No, it's not. Because K3 is a pure excuse to print money - lots and lots of us will buy it. We will be very skeptical about the MMORPG that has the gall to replace it, however, and so the game has to struggle to create its own entirely new fanbase.

 

As you say, it's a different game. Why then won't you acknowledge that this also says something about the fanbase? The people who like the KotOR games are SPRPG-players. If they were not, they would not have played the games. You're not going to get the fans of EVE Online or WoW to suddenly jump ship simply because you release a MMORPG that says both "Star Wars" and KotOR on it, because it's going to be a non-factor to them. If it's good, then the MMORPG-crowd will play it, but they'll do so whether it says KotOR on the box or not. The reverse is not the case, however - the fanbase of the KotOR games is not going to play it automatically just because it says KotOR on the box, because - as you say - it's a different game, and we'll all know that.

 

And who knows. Maybe the MMO will bomb and they will decide to go along with a Kotor 3 SPRPG when the riots begin to grow in number.

 

Unlikely, because the fanbase will then be so alienated and disappointed that KotOR is, essentially, dead. After all, LA refused to reward us for our loyalty to the SPRPGs, so why should we buy any of their products? Loyalty goes both ways. It's a pact. If LA won't honor it, then why should I or anyone else?

 

I agree completely with The Architect (yeah, I know, what a surprise...): "why exactly would someone want to fix something that ain't broke?"

[Corinthian]

Exactly! It's just one big Force-Wielding Family, with a great big hug and a kiss from me to you...

[Arátoeldar]

I remember this argument. It's exactly the same argument that the powers that be at Paramount made when they declared it "necessary" to "reinvigorate" the Star Trek franchise by going back in time and doing the Enterprise show, even if it alienated the fanbase, because they needed attract a new audience. Result? The show was cancelled and the franchise crashed and burned...

 

For the most part I have agreed with you posts in this thread. However if you want to assign blame for Enterprise crashing and burning. Then look no further to the creators Rick Berman & Brannon Braga. If Paramount had brought in someone like Manny Coto (4th season executive producer) from the beginning. Then I am sure the series would have gone all seven years.

 

/offtopic

[Ztalker]

Right. Time to throw in my two cents before throwing myself on my (rather huge amount of) homework:

 

Imo, there's nothing wrong with a Single player RPG. Kotor 1 and 2 worked out that way. Baldurs Gate worked out that way. Etc.

 

But I'm not against an MMORPG either. Why? Here I go:

 

1. Galaxies is the fine example of lack of creative vision and strenght. The original Jedi system was incredibly harsh (unknown prequisites, I believe 3 jobs?) had to be obtained and maxed.

n00bs, or...less...experienced and willing players complained. So then you could choose a Jedi from the start, and Random15yearoldidiot1995 walks around flourishing his lightsaber, whilst other players had completed the previous, FAR more intense questline. This is THE worst motivation to keep playing.

2. By doing so, the balance in the game shifted. Let's face it: Jedi should be powerfull. But if 99% of the population of the game is Jedi, there's no challenge and balance.

 

Right. Not some Ztalkerian suggestion for the possible new MMO:

1. In Kotor, non-Jedi enemies could be a tough opponent for any Jedi. Keep this intact, and even add some...'special' stuff for the non-Jedi classes to keep the advantage over Jedi. Because eventually, a lv 20 Jedi will be stronger then a lv 20 Bounty Hunter.

Give this bounty hunter the...for the hell of it..."Mandalorian Jedi Killer Technique" skill/power, obtained from a Mandalorian NPC who fought against the Jedi. The bounty hunter now receives a +? bonus against Jedi. Now give him a Cortosis blade to spar, and there we go.

2. Give interesting...extra's to non-Jedi characters.

There are so many possibilities. For example: Bounty hunters can fly and buy every ship they want. They can take contracts from the Sith Empire AND the Republic. Give them some cool skills like 'Scoundrel's Luck,' 'Solo shoots first' etc to make them interesting.

3. Restrict Jedi characters. They can only fly the ships of the Jedi Order. They can't enter Sith space, add some Yasilimiri's for powerfull non-Jedi players to get, etc.

4. Make it an...sarcrifice to befome a Jedi. Your previous skills will be undone. As Jedi you start with a clean sheet. That way, Jedi won't be the Jedi class atop of their previous. Also, armor restrictions for Jedi. AND..the bounty on Jedi should be alive. Any non-Jedi player can attack a Jedi. If killed he receives a...'proof'' whatsoever for killing the Jedi, which he/she can deliver for money. If the Jedi however, kills them instead, he is set back in experience, and his name will be known to the authorities until he pays it off. No more Republic mission for him/her then.

5. Class-planets. Mykkr for the rogues (Jedi can't feel the force there, so no over-powered Jedi can come there and slay them). Give the Bounty hunters Nar Shaddaa, etc.

 

Just some random thoughts...cheers

[Jeff]

Jediphile you need to get over this whole alienating thing. You make it sound like LucasArts would be punishing fans by making an MMO. When a company makes a game they don't do it to alienate one fanbase, they do it to attract a fanbase. If you don't like the game or the type of game then just don't play it. Same with your Star Trek example. If you don't like it then just don't watch it, don't act like they're forcing it upon you.

2. Do you honestly - honestly - think that you liking the idea of the MMORPG will make LA do it, even if lots of fans say they hate the idea?

And stop directing questions back at us like this. Avery never implied that she thought her opinion influenced what kind of game LucasArts will make, but this is the message you have been implying.

[Lance Monance]

LA would be foolish to disregard the awesome plot potential KotOR3 has as a SPRPG. The plot, the characters, the dialogue choices... can you have all that awesome stuff that made K1 & K2 awesome in a MMORPG? From what I've heard, you can't, so just why exactly would someone want to fix something that ain't broke?

 

Perhaps because MMORPGs are the latest bandwagon to jump on? Blizzard pulled a stunning fairy tale with World of Warcraft, and even though people like me where furious because it ruined the Warcraft story.. what are we compared to 9 million paying customers?

 

I bet LA is very considerate in its decisions. And if they decide that a Kotor MMORPG might have a larger audience..they'll go for it.