Astor Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 US Forces entered Syria without authorisation the other day, and killed 8 people - who may or may not have been terrorists (indeed, some reports indiciate four children were among the dead). Any comments regarding the validity of these sources will be ignored - and I would really like it if we can keep the discussion on the raid. Fox News CNN BBC Al Jazeera How much longer can the world just sit by and let America do whatever the hell it feels like? What's the point of having international borders when US troops are willing to ignore them? I agree that terrorism needs to be stopped, but actions like these are only going to draw more into their ranks - even if it's done in the name of 'fighting terrorism'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 US Forces entered Syria without authorisation the other day, and killed 8 people - who may or may not have been terrorists (indeed, some reports indiciate four children were among the dead). Any comments regarding the validity of these sources will be ignored - and I would really like it if we can keep the discussion on the raid. Fox News CNN BBC Al Jazeera How much longer can the world just sit by and let America do whatever the hell it feels like? What's the point of having international borders when US troops are willing to ignore them? I agree that terrorism needs to be stopped, but actions like these are only going to draw more into their ranks - even if it's done in the name of 'fighting terrorism'. them's sound like fightin words to me this has been an accurate portrayal of us foreign policy since the bush administration took power thank you for reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Didn't we end up killing an Al Qaeda leader in the raid? Seriously, Syria has been letting Al Qaeda operate on their border, cross into Iraq and try to kill civilians as well as our troops. Offhand, that could also be considered an act of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Yet, when someone suggests the same thing in Pakistan, they are considered by the right loony tunes. While I don’t like the idea of violating another country’s borders, if that county is allowing terrorist safe haven then I see no other choice. How much longer can the world just sit by and let America do whatever the hell it feels like?[/Quote] Quit loaning us money and it will stop rather quickly. What's the point of having international borders when US troops are willing to ignore them? Well we could ask the terrorist to stop crossing the borders when the U.S. is trying to kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 What's the world gonna do about it? They don't do anything about anyone right now much less the US. That said I certainly don't approve of these kinds of actions. Which is why I want this war over with ASAP. Obviously if we have the time to strike outside of Iraq, the Iraqi's have the ability to defend themselves. If we're gonna stay in the Middle East, lets get back to getting Bin Laden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 What's the world gonna do about it? They don't do anything about anyone right now much less the US. That said I certainly don't approve of these kinds of actions. Which is why I want this war over with ASAP. Obviously if we have the time to strike outside of Iraq, the Iraqi's have the ability to defend themselves. If we're gonna stay in the Middle East, lets get back to getting Bin Laden. Considering they don't have an airforce, I sincerely doubt they are currently ready to defend themselves. Also while I don't exactly like these strikes into other countries, I do think in this case it was necessary. I'm going to suggest that the Syrian government should patrol their own border better so that Al Qaeda doesn't sneak across the Syrian border into Iraq all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 The sad truth of the matter is the world really can't do anything. Currently the US is the superpower in the world. You want an example? Well out of the six major telecommunication centers, four are based in the US. The other two are in Germany and Japan. The US has major interests in just about every part of the world. Ever since WWII, the US has been involved in some sort of war and often times it has nothing to to with us though it was made out to be one. At the end of the Vietnam war, our military engagements have been done under the term of humanitarian works. This so called "war on terror" is nothing more than a powerplay and a costly one at fact that people agree on because of Sept. 11 events. Here is a clip that probably gives some perspective as to why we the US think we can illegally move in countries like Syria. Globalization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wonderfull, now it'll be much easier to persuade Syria to help fighting terrorism, and stop medling in Lebanon:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Wonderfull' date=' now it'll be much easier to persuade Syria to help fighting terrorism, and stop medling in Lebanon:rolleyes:[/quote'] excuse me but I fail to see how killing 8 people "who may or may not have been terrorists" is a wonderful thing! Syria has been letting Al Qaeda operate on their border, cross into Iraq and try to kill civilians as well as our troops. I wont use the verb "letting" if I were you; this implies that it was in the Syrian Government's intentions to "let" terrorist cross into Iraq, whereas illegal immigrants are crossing the borders of almost every country in the world, so why does the US Gov think Syria has the full ability to prevent this? another important thing, Syria has recently suffered two terrorist attacks persumingly performed by Al Qaeda. While I don’t like the idea of violating another country’s borders, if that county is allowing terrorist safe haven then I see no other choice. again, you don't know if this is really what's going on, all what we have is Bush's words and history tells not to fully believe this man. Still I agree with you that no country has the right to violate another country's borders. The sad truth of the matter is the world really can't do anything. true, which ironically leads me to question the significance of debating over such issues, knowing that no matter how we speak, man will never learn to live with man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 again' date=' you don't know if this is really what's going on, all what we have is Bush's words and history tells not to fully believe this man. Still I agree with you that no country has the right to violate another country's borders.[/quote'] Agreed, but that is why I used the word if. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Seriously, Syria has been letting Al Qaeda operate on their border, cross into Iraq and try to kill civilians as well as our troops. I don't think that Syria is 'letting' Al Qaeda do anything - Al Qaeda don't exactly operate in the realms of law and decency, after all. While I don’t like the idea of violating another country’s borders, if that county is allowing terrorist safe haven then I see no other choice. I agree that the terrorists should be stopped, but there were plenty of options here, that didn't involve violating borders - why not approach the Syrian government for a joint operation? That surely would have been a better option that just flying into Syria and shooting at anything. Quit loaning us money and it will stop rather quickly. I'll phone Brown and see what he thinks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mimartin Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I agree that the terrorists should be stopped, but there were plenty of options here, that didn't involve violating borders - why not approach the Syrian government for a joint operation? That surely would have been a better option that just flying into Syria and shooting at anything.[/Quote] Oh, I agree, this plan of operation is in my opinion is only creating more terrorist. However, if after exhausting diplomatic solutions a country will not offer cooperation then I am not above operating behind another country’s borders. I would like more assurances from the military and the administration that they are doing everything possible to eliminate civilian casualties. I’m sure they are, but I would like to know what the administration considers acceptable civilian losses. I would hope it is closer to zero than eight. I'll phone Brown and see what he thinks . You may want to call China’s leadership too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Here is a clip that probably gives some perspective as to why we the US think we can illegally move in countries like Syria. Globalization You do realize that they were at the very least turning a blind eye to Al Qaeda using their border as a staging ground, and more likely they were actively helping Al Qaeda attack Iraqi Civilians and US troops, so at the very least we're looking at more of a gray area here. I'm wondering why the heck they gave Al Qaeda sanctuary in their country, that's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mur'phon Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Because when someone capable of turning your country into a bloddy mess and kill you and your entire family, tells you "leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone" it's clear what is the easier decision. @Arist: the is there for a reason:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMaster12 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Of course it could be just wishful thinking that supposed Al-Qaida terrororists were unknonw terrorists to the Syrians. However it could be a matter of as mur'phon pointed out that the gun was pointed at Syria's face and they found it easier to comply. Doesn't justify the US's wanton roaming in the Middle East though. Reminds me of the whole thing on WMDs, the ones that didn't exist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Because when someone capable of turning your country into a bloddy mess and kill you and your entire family, tells you "leave us alone, and we'll leave you alone" it's clear what is the easier decision. @Arist: the is there for a reason so let me get this straight; your reply is based on a personal issue that has nothing to do with our current discussion, am I right? please correct me if Im wrong. I'm wondering why the heck they gave Al Qaeda sanctuary in their country, that's like waving a red flag in front of a bull. again we dont know if they are allowing Al Qaeda to operate from within their borders, and frankly I cannot find this accusation rational. still there is no reason that may justify such an action, the US governments and all governments alike should learn to respect other countries. Of course it could be just wishful thinking that supposed Al-Qaida terrororists were unknonw terrorists to the Syrians. I understand that mostly none of us read the whole posts, but I presume that you know that Syria suffered two Al Qaeda attacks last months-- as I have stated in my previous post. I know what you're at but I was just referring to the absurdity of such wishful thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarfieldJL Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 again we dont know if they are allowing Al Qaeda to operate from within their borders, and frankly I cannot find this accusation rational. still there is no reason that may justify such an action, the US governments and all governments alike should learn to respect other countries. Well considering we've tried to get them to go after Al Qaeda in their own country for a while now, it's safe to say they knew Al-Qaeda was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ztalker Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Well considering we've tried to get them to go after Al Qaeda in their own country for a while now, it's safe to say they knew Al-Qaeda was there. You never KNOW. You can only suspect. If the country doesn't stand up, they don't see a reason to do so. Why run in and do it yourself? If every nation would enter countries based on suspicion...not good. Plus: Statement to the terrorist is, imo, VERY clear. Don't mess with the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jae Onasi Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 There's quite a bit of intelligence noting Al-Qaeda is operating in Syria--we've been dealing with them crossing back and forth across the Iraqi border for years now. We've been trying for years through diplomatic channels to urge Syria to deal with the terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salzella Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I thought this editorial: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/29/usa-bush-syria-elections was quite interesting with regards to that, though I don't know enough about it myself to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 When words fail, give your faith to the gun. The Syrians can't clean up their own mess, so now, we're doing it for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 When words fail, give your faith to the gun. The Syrians can't clean up their own mess, so now, we're doing it for them. this suffices in a movie, not in real life. you have to pursue diplomacy, and like I've noted two times before, Al Qaeda has recently attacked Syria twice, which leave us to questioning the accusations against Syria. like Ztalker has said, If every nation would enter countries based on suspicion...not good. this is the rule, no matter how bad the situation is. and if one is blaming Syria for "letting" Al Qaeda to cross its borders, well blame Spain, the UK, and even the US for Al Qaeda's most major strikes, then come to realize that a small and not too powerful country like Syria may not be able to accomplish what stronger countries failed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Diplomacy is overrated. Besides, in the real world, diplomacy is the silk glove. You wear it alongside the iron gauntlet. We tried diplomacy with them - see Jae's post - and they failed to properly deal with the issue. So now, we're taking the issue out of their hands. If non-coms died, that's unfortunate, but this is war. Just War is not applicable in modern warfare. Never has been, never will be. That's the nature of war. Collateral damage happens, and like it or not, if we want to win this war or any other, you have to value your own nation's strength, security, and citizens above those of other nations. We gave Syria a chance to deal with this on their own. They failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotélēsticus Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Diplomacy is overrated. Besides, in the real world, diplomacy is the silk glove. You wear it alongside the iron gauntlet. We tried diplomacy with them - see Jae's post - and they failed to properly deal with the issue. So now, we're taking the issue out of their hands. Diplomacy isn’t overrated when it’s performed probably, with all due respect to Jae, the US government has not tried diplomacy with the Syrian Government and failed, what they have done was merely throwing accusations unattached with proofs, and in many times they tried to intimidate the Syrian Government of global isolation if they “choose to stick to their policy in supporting terrorism”. Now, verily this is not diplomacy, simply because they’ve marked Syria as an enemy and started from there. besides its not your territory to be free to take it out of their hands. Respect the others If non-coms died, that's unfortunate, but this is war. Just War is not applicable in modern warfare. Never has been, never will be. That's the nature of war. Collateral damage happens, and like it or not, if we want to win this war or any other, you have to value your own nation's strength, security, and citizens above those of other nations. No its not unfortunate, it’s a disaster. A Syrian citizen in a humanity scale equals an American citizen, or an Iraqi, a European, an African... you can’t just say we’ve mistook a terrorist with a citizen passing by. We gave Syria a chance to deal with this on their own. They failed. Now if they failed—in your opinion—then its their problem to suffer, and they’ve suffered—remember the two terrorist attacks? .Your problem is to withdraw your soldiers from a foreign country and get them back to their country and to their families where they belong. One last thing, try to be delicate please, “we” is the US government not people which I think you belong to, and “Syria” is the Syrian Government not the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinthian Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Respect the others? Why? What's our interest in respecting Syria's borders? It is not just MY opinion that the Syrians failed to contain the Al-Qaeda presence inside their borders, it's the entire military chain of command believes that, and I'm inclined to trust their judgment. And it's not 'their problem to suffer'. They're striking across the Syrian Border. If they can't take care of it, we will. And have done so. The global stage runs on one commodity - Enlightened Self Interest. Respect, joy, and good will towards men really doesn't come into play, it's who's got the bigger muscles when the pushing contest starts. Life isn't fair. Did you think that changed when it's governments instead of individuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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