Det. Bart Lasiter Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 welp, i guess i'll kick this shindig off with this. basically israel decided to bomb civilian targets as schools were letting out and a killed a few hundred civilians in response to one israeli woman being injured in an attack carried out by a small faction of palestinians in a response to an occupation and blockade in response to rocket attacks in response to the last thing. to finish up this post: am i allowed to hate what israel is doing (bombing one group for the actions of another) or is that still against the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrtoken Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I think that Israel's response, as usual, is a little overblown. And they can hardly continue to portray themselves as the injured party when they act in such a manner.QFT Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted December 28, 2008 Author Share Posted December 28, 2008 QFT Although Hamas seems to be the initial instigator, Israel, as always, is using excessive force. I wouldn't be too surprised in Israel goes in for the kill and tries to capture Gaza entirely. Of course, the U.S. government is eternally loyal to Israel, so they'll probably give them even more weapons. iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrrtoken Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then.Hm... that too, but I was more or less referring to the recent operation. Of course, you could also say that the conflict started several thousand years ago when those damn Israelites just had to go to Canaan and drive everyone else out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderWiggin Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 iirc this time israel was the provocateur when they broke the ceasefire november 4th and have been essentially starving the palestinian people since then. Yeah, the whole ****ing thing is stupid. They're like two stupid children fighting and one of them is going to get hurt. And then they're going to run crying to us, or to the caliph, (depending on which one gets hurt) and then ****'s goin' down. _EW_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ctrl Alt Del Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Now tell me Israel didn't knew that this would only render the palestinians more eager to fight on the only way they can cause real damage: more terrorist attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 As long as these two nations keep fighting, there will not be peace. Tolerance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Yeah, pretty much been said, Israel's concept of diplomacy is "do what we say or we kill you", and their responses to violence against them are "we kill you moar!". It's moronic and annoying. I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms. I really wish the US would stop backing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanir Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 jmac, you rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astor Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I mean, what was one of their leading arguments as to why they did this according to the paper I read? Oh yeah, they wanted the Palestinians to give in to more "favorable" "peace" terms. Favourable in Israel's eyes must mean no terms for the other guys, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommycat Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Yeah, if Hamas would stop going for their stated goal of driving the jews into the ocean, then maybe we could actually hate the Isrealis properly. Don't get me wrong, I hate what the Israelis have done to the Palestinians. They always answer death with a hundred deaths. Hamas has answered death with death as well, but the only thing they do differently is answer peace with death. Well I guess the Israelis do that too... Ah well, The only way there will be peace in that area will be when the Israelis give up the land they bought from those that are now called Palestinians, but are really Jordans(Jordanians?) because they want their land back. Strangely enough I get to hear both sides of this argument from an Israeli friend and a Palestinian friend. You can guess why I don't ever let them meet up haha. but from what they have said: Israeli side: They bought the land legally from the Jordans, and established themselves there. The people that are fighting now are trying to steal back the land that was legally purchased. The Palestinians have already stolen much of the land. Palestinian side: The Jews worked shady deals to scam them out of the land in the first place, and the Palestinians are taking back what is rightfully theirs. The Israelis broke their word to them on numerous occasions, and attempted to drive the remaining people out. They treat them as slaves and second class citizens. If they treat them as citizens at all. My take: Chances are there were probably some shady deals, and the palestinians actually have a point for their hatred. But stealing the land back isn't the best option. Neither side is right in the conflict. Until both sides agree on that, they won't have peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriggs Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 As far as hating them I don't see what good it will do, but it's understandable at the very least. It's tragic, but we all know that, and with the bad blood between the two it won't be easy to come to a resolution, much less a good one. But we all know that as well, I suppose we can only hope some good will come out of this. That perhaps Israel's supporting nations will not continue to enable them to do things like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriggs Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Stating the obvious: Israel had better hope that the U.S. is never over-extended and thereby forced to fold up shop. What goes around, comes around. As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind. I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel. Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 As a citizen of the US it does feel as if were the parent spoiling the child, perhaps that's a bad analogy but it is the best that comes to mind.How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one. I think the global community is waiting to see what we do since, in my opinion, we do share an amount of responsibility ( large or small is debatable in my mind) for Israel.I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year. And then when you find out what they do with it... Though what we should do... I'm not sure, a stricter policy of compliance sounds like a good first step.Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good. PS Welcome to LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriggs Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one. I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate. I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year. And then when you find out what they do with it... I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing. Yes, or less hypocrisy. That would also be good. Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion. So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol. PS Welcome to LF Thank you very much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Det. Bart Lasiter Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 How about arming the neighborhood bully and then pressuring our friends to threaten any of the smaller kids that threaten to stand up to him? I like that one.stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine stop hitting yourself palestine I vote for "large". It's staggering how much money we give them every year.it's staggering how much we give them in just a single day. And then when you find out what they do with it...buy stealth planes so they can get around palestinian radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev7 Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Well, there has been yet another day of attacks. More wounded/killed. Lastest news According to this article, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Cabinet ministers Sunday that the situation "is liable to continue for some time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I don't quite have your flare, I suppose looking at it as playground politics is a good way to illustrate it. Though I think our role would be more of an adult exerting negative influence on the child, perhaps it's condescending but we are a world power so it does seem more accurate.It mostly at matter of opinion anyway. There might be good arguments for an adult/child argument, but I tend to view global politics as cranky, unwashed children in a sandbox, so that probably influences my analogy. I've heard varying things in my discussions about amounts and what they are doing with it, so I've taken it with a grain of salt. Have they released a federal report or such thing, I realize it could be inaccurate but I'd be more willing to believe it. I suppose my ignorance is showing.It varies slightly from year-to-year, but IIRC it's about $3 billion in foreign aid. I believe military aid is a separate number and I wouldn't trust any number I saw published because not all military spending is reported. Well the only thing we can do about that is exercise our rights to vote and to speech when we see these hypocrisies. Well, I suppose I'm trying to look at it from a perspective of 'What can we do?' Perhaps that's inappropriate for the discussion. So instead, yes the human element will always be a problem. Politicians are corruptible and are not infallible... jeez talk about stating the obvious lol. You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington. Intro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriggs Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 You are correct, however I'm not sure how we even begin to take on the Israel lobby in Washington. Intro That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achilles Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 That is a pretty serious problem, one group having that much power. I'm a little stunned frankly, I hope the quotes of senators in their camp were exaggerations, but I suppose it would make sense when you look at what Israel has gotten from us.Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spriggs Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 Pay close attention to the "Coalitions with other interest groups" section. If any of the names look unfamiliar, I recommend Googling them. My... aren't they all a bundle of joy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yar-El Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Rider Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I saw a newsclip a few nights back where Isreal voiced concern over Obama. There was talk about how Isreal is insecure with Obama's abilities. Isreal may feel as though our new president will not support their efforts; thus, they took a preemtive strike to remove Hamas. Gaza strip was handed over to Palestine as a act of peace. Palestine ended up using it as a tool to strike into Isreal. Hamas came in and took it from both sides. I'm not surprised this has happend. You can only be poked so many times until there is a reaction. Which does not excuse this attack. Israel blew up 230+ people, not soldiers, not paramilitary, not terrorists, just random people. The same holds true for Palestine, you cannot expect them to do nothing when Israel doesn't give a damn who they kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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