Praise the President?

[Ten-96]

I've been away for a while but I'm back. I noticed that this hadn't been posted here yet and wanted to bringit up.

 

 

Kids being taught to sing praises to Obama

 

 

 

I was outraged when I saw this on the Drudge Report. I was even more outraged when the Superintendant of the School System responded as if there was nothing wrong with what was shown in the video. I think the thing that made it the most offensive to me is the line, "...All are equal in his sight."

 

 

Your thoughts?

[Sir Vougalot]

What's ironic is that I created a song set to the same tune when he won the election:

 

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of Obama

He is not willing to drill so we may as well ride llamas

Gonna weaken our defenses which is sure to please Osama

The Messiah marches on

 

And this teacher didn't even get the melody right. She just had them keep repeating the first two lines over and over again with different lyrics. Also, "we all doth say 'Hooray!'" is improper grammar as "doth" is a third-person singular verb.

[Darth InSidious]

Why not? Don't children in your country already have to 'pledge alleigience to the flag' every morning? Singing hymns to your President doesn't seem that much further along the same furrow.

[Sir Vougalot]

It's infinitely different. The flag is a symbol of our nation and the president is a single person. Teaching kids respect for the presidency is one thing, but making them revere him like some sort of savior is reminiscent of a dictatorship. We pledge our allegiance to our country through its proudest symbol, but never to any of our leaders or any human being at all. In fact, they are understood to serve us, not the other way around. They don't embody the spirit of the country.

 

I'm trying to find the video of classroom kids in Nazi Germany singing songs to their "savior" Adolf Hitler for comparison, but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Edit] Okay, the aforementioned clip can be found toward the end of this video (not the video I was looking for, but it'll do):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjLmpoKgSG8

[Totenkopf]

This is typical of the mind dead zombies who glorify Obama. Refreshing to see that not all libs are comfortable with this kind of politization of the schools. Imagine them singing like this about Bush, Reagan or even the Pope and the uberlibs'd be pissing themselves in outrage. While I'm not blaming BO for any of this, curious that he doesn't come out and discredit this type of behavior in the public schools. Though the tape in question is from Feb, this type of crap was going on pre-election (as evidenced by ZN's link). The recent flap over BO's planned speech to the schools only reinforced this image due to the nature of the accompanying "educational materials" the Dept of Ed planned to include.

[Bimmerman]

I'm going to just say this: you conservatives are being hypocrites.

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.) Source: Jesus Camp documentary. Go rent it and fear for the future.

 

So, religiously indoctrinated children worshiping President Bush is ok, but children simply praising President Obama is not?

 

Hypocrites.

 

Both videos show children being brainwashed, but since it's liberals doing it, now there's an outrage. Go find something actually important to get hot and bothered by, or at least recognize the hypocrisy.

[Darth InSidious]

And now that you've posted that video, I suppose you're fair game to be called a hypocrite too?

 

Just checking.

[Samuel Dravis]

Personally I believe that this example is worse than the Jesus Camp incident mainly because it is a public school doing it. While private political indoctrination of children is offensive and reprehensible, a publicly-funded school should never be advocating political opinions.

[Sir Vougalot]

Yeah, I don't know how anyone can use that video to point out "you conservatives" are hypocrites. If all conservatives followed the same religion, went to the same church, preached the same theology, and advocated the same (fanatical) evangelic methods as can be seen in this video, then your argument might be valid. But since that isn't the case, that was a lousy attempt at a counter-argument. This sounds to me like your typical liberal ignorance and stereotyping.

 

Also, what those Jesus Campers are doing in that video is about as far from an example of conservatism as you can get. Conservatives don't believe in putting your faith in an earthly person because that is the way of dictatorships; and we are a democratic republic. Thus, this video is irrelevant to conservatism and only serves as a different form of what these liberals are drilling into our kids' heads regarding the current president. I have yet to talk to a conservative who has ever approved of Jesus Camp.

 

Nice try, though.

 

<snipped>

[Totenkopf]

I'm going to just say this: you conservatives are being hypocrites....

 

Nothing hypocritical about it as several of us have posted that the fact this was being done by "govt controlled" public school was the problem. If you wish to take your child (if you have any) and sit down and deify any person of your choice in private......have at it. 1st Amendment and all that.

[Te Je'karta Mand'alor]

I've been away for a while but I'm back. I noticed that this hadn't been posted here yet and wanted to bringit up.

 

 

Kids being taught to sing praises to Obama

 

 

 

I was outraged when I saw this on the Drudge Report. I was even more outraged when the Superintendant of the School System responded as if there was nothing wrong with what was shown in the video. I think the thing that made it the most offensive to me is the line, "...All are equal in his sight."

 

 

Your thoughts?

 

no offense to Obama, but that's disgusting (singing in praise to people)

[jonathan7]

Right, words of warning here - be careful with your use of the word "hypocrite" I don't want it directed at forum members. And selective members of both the Democrats and the Republicans have proven themselves to be hypocrites in the past.

 

Be warned - after the inability of quite a few American posters of either persuasion to be civil to one another during the election you are hereby notified that this thread is on a tight leash. I will not allow unsubstantiated conjecture or smears directed towards those in opposition to your view point -- j7

[Trench]

I'm going to just say this: you conservatives are being hypocrites.

 

<snip>

Source: Jesus Camp documentary. Go rent it and fear for the future.

 

So, religiously indoctrinated children worshiping President Bush is ok, but children simply praising President Obama is not?

 

Hypocrites.

 

Both videos show children being brainwashed, but since it's liberals doing it, now there's an outrage. Go find something actually important to get hot and bothered by, or at least recognize the hypocrisy.

 

Those kids weren't worshiping Bush. They were praying for him. Is it not normal for even atheists to hope that their leaders do the right thing and are kept safe? Why should it be wrong for Christian's to pray for their leaders?

Now worshiping Obama (or Bush) is a revolting thing to teach kids, and any superintendent or teacher who condones such a thing in their schools and classrooms should be discharged immediately.

[Q]

Personally I believe that this example is worse than the Jesus Camp incident mainly because it is a public school doing it.

This is the main problem that I have with the topic at hand as well. If religious fanatics want to send their kids to be brainwashed at Jesus camp, well that's their choice, deplorable as it may be.

 

A government institution doing it is another matter entirely. Of course, in my experience, public school has done stuff like this since I was kid, but they used to be far more subtle about it.

[Astor]

Your thoughts?

 

Both songs are awful.

 

EDIT: It occurs to me that I should add a little more than just that line.

 

Although they are awful, I do disagree with this sort of activity going on in any state school, although it would be amusing to see British school children singing Gordon Brown's praises.

[Litofsky]

Besides making me cringe, you mean?

 

I thought it was deplorable. It bothers me the most that an adult is teaching a bunch of children to sing songs glorifying the president (the most perturbing fact, to me, is that children don't have an innate opinion about such things [at their age] until someone steps in and tells them what to think).

[Det. Bart Lasiter]

Why not? Don't children in your country already have to 'pledge alleigience to the flag' every morning? Singing hymns to your President doesn't seem that much further along the same furrow.

I agree with Darathy completely, worshiping a man as infallible is just as repugnant as worshiping a country as infallible.

 

What's more is I don't see this as anything more than a stupid elementary school song for a black history month celebration that's been blown out of proportion.

[Jae Onasi]

If there had been a Bush praise song in a public school during Texas history month, there would have been an outcry from the left about how kids were getting brain-washed. Learning about Obama as important to the black community as first half-black President? Sure. Singing praises to him? That's pushing the line for me on pressuring kids with politics and doesn't belong in the classroom. If the parents of all those kids gave consent for this, then it might be something more acceptable.

[Te Je'karta Mand'alor]

If there had been a Bush praise song in a public school during Texas history month, there would have been an outcry from the left about how kids were getting brain-washed. Learning about Obama as important to the black community as first half-black President? Sure. Singing praises to him? That's pushing the line for me on pressuring kids with politics and doesn't belong in the classroom. If the parents of all those kids gave consent for this, then it might be something more acceptable.

 

I compltely agree and i'm sick of being brain washed by politics.

[Ten-96]

Just to be clear, I am opposed to anyone trying to force their political views on children - be they Conservative or Liberal. However, praying for the President and sing a song of praise to the President seem to be two completely different things to me.

[Bimmerman]

Just because this happened in a public school does not mean it is government-approved. Unless this is widespread throughout the public school system, this is simply a deplorable act done by a very bad teacher. This incident hardly screams child indoctrination to me, just bad judgment by a teacher.

 

Do I agree with what the teacher did? No, I find it disgusting. Am I offended? No. I have had teachers say and do a loooot more politically controversial actions while in their official capacity as teachers. This hardly ruffles my feathers.

 

@TMM- there's a big difference between praying and praying. This falls under the latter, and looks an awful lot like worship to me. Granted, yes, these kids are doing so in a private setting, but it still bothers me significantly more than the kids in the classroom (and not because it's Bush, but because they're worshiping the President and "giving him strength to fight xxxxx").

 

@Ten 96- I agree with you, forcing political views on children is bad no matter what party or side of the isle it is. I just find it incredibly ironic that conservatives are up in arms about what they do anyway, but only when liberals do it. Again, hypocrisy. (See evolution vs intelligent design debates in Texas, Kansas, etc, religion in the classroom, sex education, etc).

 

And, for the record, I'm a registered Republican, so....calling me a liberal is hardly correct.

[jrrtoken]

Just because this happened in a public school does not mean it is government-approved.

This. People seem to forget that all schools are fundamentally operated by local governments, as defined byt the federal system. The schools might conform to standards set by the state and national gov'ts, as well as receiving the bulk of their funding from them, but schools themselves are operated locally. Therefore, decrying this as a liberal politburo-instituted function is illogical, and is simply an isolated incident.

[Sir Vougalot]

@Ten 96- I agree with you, forcing political views on children is bad no matter what party or side of the isle it is. I just find it incredibly ironic that conservatives are up in arms about what they do anyway, but only when liberals do it. Again, hypocrisy. (See evolution vs intelligent design debates in Texas, Kansas, etc, religion in the classroom, sex education, etc).

 

Again, you're using a blanket statement that is routed in propaganda and stereotyping rather than fact. Don't you get it? You can't say "It's hypocritical because conservatives do it too." No, they don't! I just devoted a whole post explaining to you that you cannot paint conservatives as religious fanatics because of a video of Jesus Camp (something that, as I said, most conservatives seem to disapprove of anyway). Neither can you use the evolution vs. creation debate as this is something that is associated with a certain religion (mainly mainline Protestantism) rather than conservative politics, which is made up of people from many different religions, or no religion at all. It seems to me that - and I do not mean this offensively, I'm just going on what I see here - you have this predetermined image of conservatives in your head based on things that represent only a small portion of the group.

 

And for the record, no one here is presenting the opposite argument: that is, no one is laying the blame on liberals in general for what we see in these videos.

 

And, for the record, I'm a registered Republican, so....calling me a liberal is hardly correct.

 

That doesn't mean anything. In fact, I am so sick of this bipartisan mentality and how the left is using it to further their agenda by lumping all opposition on "Republicans." The Democratic Party, since the New Deal, has become a party-loyal entity of politicians pushing for Statist agendas, and they cannot get it through their heads that conservatives do not think as they do. Republicans, on the other hand, are 1930s Democrats: when the party had just begun its downfall into corruption from which there was no return. True conservatives are not in the majority within the Republican Party anymore. The Party, as a whole, is more centrist, run by people like Colin Powell and John McCain who compromise the traditional principles that once made the party (and, going further back, both parties) great.

 

This is thanks mainly to the Progressive Movement of the early twentieth century, whereby the concepts of individual prosperity were thrown under the bus in favor of more collectivist ideologies. Even the way we viewed private property was severely tarnished. Progressivism has become woven into the very fabric of both major parties, unfortunately, and this was why George Washington warned against the formation of political parties.

[Bimmerman]

Again, you're using a blanket statement that is routed in propaganda and stereotyping rather than fact. Don't you get it? You can't say "It's hypocritical because conservatives do it too." No, they don't! I just devoted a whole post explaining to you that you cannot paint conservatives as religious fanatics because of a video of Jesus Camp (something that, as I said, most conservatives seem to disapprove of anyway).

 

My blanket statement is routed in first-hand experience. I have met numerous conservatives who fit my mold. I fully recognize that the Jesus Camp shenaniganry applies to a very small proportion of the conservative movement, namely the religious lunatic fringe of said movement. What I am using the video for is to compare isolated groups. There is no widespread movement to worship the president just like there is no widespread movement to have children sing Obama's praises. Isolated incidents, man.

 

It is hypocritical to not be terribly worried at christian fundamentalists worshipping Bush and be offended at school children singing a song simply praising Obama. There's a fundamental problem there.

 

What you seem to be doing is using this singular video of school children and extrapolating a gigantic liberal conspiracy to indoctrinate children into believing Obama is some sort of political messianic genius. Obviously that thinking is as absurd as my over exaggeration.

 

Neither can you use the evolution vs. creation debate as this is something that is associated with a certain religion (mainly mainline Protestantism) rather than conservative politics, which is made up of people from many different religions, or no religion at all. It seems to me that - and I do not mean this offensively, I'm just going on what I see here - you have this predetermined image of conservatives in your head based on things that represent only a small portion of the group.

 

No, I can use that exact debate seeing as how the majority of conservatives (until Bush left office, anyway) identified strongly as evangelicals or Christians. That is hardly all Republicans, but is the base that the politicians pander to. Again, I have my predetermined image of conservatives based on my experience meeting them.

 

And for the record, no one here is presenting the opposite argument: that is, no one is laying the blame on liberals in general for what we see in these videos.

 

Why should liberals be blamed for it at all? It's a single teacher leading her class in a song about Obama. How is this even remotely related to liberals? One teacher a conspiracy does not make.

 

That doesn't mean anything. In fact, I am so sick of this bipartisan mentality and how the left is using it to further their agenda by lumping all opposition on "Republicans."

 

You're right, since I voted for Obama. The conservative movement has murdered the Republican party in my opinion, straying significantly away from the important financial conservatism and emphasizing particularly strongly the bigoted social conservatism I cannot stand. If it were not for that, I would gladly vote Republican; the Democrats are nearly as repugnant in my mind.

 

There is a great distinction between social conservative and economic conservative. The conservative movement has, for the last eight years, been significantly more focused on the social issues to the detriment of voters (see election results) and finance (see world markets, though the politics is only a tiny influence on the crash).

 

However, I find it incredibly amusing that you are making the distinction between republicans and conservatives but none between liberals and democrats. How odd.

 

The Democratic Party, since the New Deal, has become a party-loyal

...and the Republicans or Conservatives aren't?!?

entity of politicians pushing for Statist agendas, and they cannot get it through their heads that conservatives do not think as they do.

 

Just as you claim I have no idea what a conservative is, please do tell how you came to this conclusion on the Democrats. Democrats != Statism, and are far more understanding than you give credit for.

 

Republicans, on the other hand, are 1930s Democrats: when the party had just begun its downfall into corruption from which there was no return.

 

That I will agree with, it's part of the reason I didn't vote for them.

 

True conservatives are not in the majority within the Republican Party anymore. The Party, as a whole, is more centrist, run by people like Colin Powell and John McCain who compromise the traditional principles that once made the party (and, going further back, both parties) great.

 

They are no longer in the majority for the simple reason that the overall population is more centrist than conservatives give credit for. Conservatism was resoundingly rejected in the 2006 and 08 elections, why shouldn't the party move to the center to appeal to a broader swath of the electorate? I doubt you'll agree, but the Democrats sure have become more centrist. Remember, liberal =/= democrat just like conservative =/= republican.

 

This is thanks mainly to the Progressive Movement of the early twentieth century, whereby the concepts of individual prosperity were thrown under the bus in favor of more collectivist ideologies. Even the way we viewed private property was severely tarnished. Progressivism has become woven into the very fabric of both major parties, unfortunately, and this was why George Washington warned against the formation of political parties.

 

Not terribly sure of that, but I do agree with you that politics have changed significantly since the Laisses-faire era ended. Personal responsibility has all but disappeared in favor of "help me, government" ideology. This is bad, and coming from a slightly-right leaning centrist <gasp?>

 

I think both you and I are equally guilty of stereotyping. You of liberals, me of conservatives.

 

on-topic: one school teacher's actions does not mean it is a liberal plot, no more than a religious nutcase boot camp is indicative of conservative thought. That is what I mean by the hypocrisy of the "off with their heads" mentality on display here.

[Totenkopf]

My blanket statement is routed in first-hand experience. I have met numerous conservatives who fit my mold. I fully recognize that the Jesus Camp shenaniganry applies to a very small proportion of the conservative movement, namely the religious lunatic fringe of said movement. What I am using the video for is to compare isolated groups. There is no widespread movement to worship the president just like there is no widespread movement to have children sing Obama's praises. Isolated incidents, man.

 

Interesting, b/c most conservatives I've met don't fall into that mold. Re the worship thing, actually there is......the modern democrat progressive. This wasn't the first incident of this kind of stuff, as ZN's video demonstrated. Other examples were occurring circa the election. As this one occurred during Black History month and was only released on Yuotube recently, it's impossible to say with certitude how much of this has been going on around the country. That the Dept of Ed would think to include materials for his recent speech that had the students consider what they would do to help the President's agenda (hence politicizing the event) says that the "adults" in charge probably need to go back to school themselves for civics lessons.

 

 

It is hypocritical to not be terribly worried at christian fundamentalists worshipping Bush and be offended at school children singing a song simply praising Obama. There's a fundamental problem there.

 

I believe it's already been pointed out that the children in a private function weren't worshipping Bush. If you pray FOR someone, you're not praying TO that person. Based on the clip you provided, they aren't "worshipping" him. The BO stuff ain't so benign by comparison. It does compare more to what you might expect to find in VZ or NK, where you have cult of personality politics in play.

 

What you seem to be doing is using this singular video of school children and extrapolating a gigantic liberal conspiracy to indoctrinate children into believing Obama is some sort of political messianic genius. Obviously that thinking is as absurd as my over exaggeration.

 

No, he's providing but another example of the loony left trying to deify BO and cast him as some kind of savior. I don't believe that all liberals buy into the glorification process any more than all conservatives do for "Saint Ron". But to cast it is as some mere aberration would be factually incorrect.

 

 

No, I can use that exact debate seeing as how the majority of conservatives (until Bush left office, anyway) identified strongly as evangelicals or Christians. That is hardly all Republicans, but is the base that the politicians pander to. Again, I have my predetermined image of conservatives based on my experience meeting them.

 

Interesting. Are you in the south? I've no doubt you'd find the evangelical types in the conservative movement, but they also vote liberal too. I suspect many religious types don't vote monolithically. You had Catholics voting for McCain as well as for Obama. Jews probably segregated along Orthodox and reformed in who they voted for as well.

 

Why should liberals be blamed for it at all? It's a single teacher leading her class in a song about Obama. How is this even remotely related to liberals? One teacher a conspiracy does not make.

 

Wasn't the first time a "liberal teacher" (you don't find many conservatives in education, esp at the lower levels in the public system) has done this kind of thing. Also, given that it's liberal radicals like Bill Ayers that have a significant hand in crafting national curriculums, it's not so surprising.

 

 

You're right, since I voted for Obama. The conservative movement has murdered the Republican party in my opinion, straying significantly away from the important financial conservatism and emphasizing particularly strongly the bigoted social conservatism I cannot stand. If it were not for that, I would gladly vote Republican; the Democrats are nearly as repugnant in my mind.

 

I find it interesting that a self described "conservative" would have voted for BO. Why not some third party candidate? Or are you saying you veer more toward liberatarian ideals? Frankly, the last election for me was merely a case of BO or Obama lite. Maybe you figured you'd settle for the real thing.

 

 

There is a great distinction between social conservative and economic conservative. The conservative movement has, for the last eight years, been significantly more focused on the social issues to the detriment of voters (see election results) and finance (see world markets, though the politics is only a tiny influence on the crash).

 

Bush did become Johnsonian with his guns' butter policies (wars, MC bill, etc..). However, Congress disposes,and the president merely proposes. The dems are as responsible for the current mess as the other side. I agree with you that the reps should have tried to exercise greater fiscal responsibility and not "lose their way".

 

 

They are no longer in the majority for the simple reason that the overall population is more centrist than conservatives give credit for. Conservatism was resoundingly rejected in the 2006 and 08 elections, why shouldn't the party move to the center to appeal to a broader swath of the electorate? I doubt you'll agree, but the Democrats sure have become more centrist. Remember, liberal =/= democrat just like conservative =/= republican.

 

I supppose if you move the bar for defining centrism (afterall Al Franken thinks he's a moderate ). The reps largely veered from "conservatism" prior to 2006/8, so I think the elections were more about Bush/Cheney than anything else. Still, amazing how the economic problems of the US only got worse w/dem control of Congress. The problem becomes that it's the party leadership more often than the rank-n-file that fit the description of the stereotype. Whether many dems are as loony as the ldrship of that party is open to debate in my book, but I give them the benefit of the doubt to demonstrate one way or the other. Same could be said of the other side.

 

Not terribly sure of that, but I do agree with you that politics have changed significantly since the Laisses-faire era ended. Personal responsibility has all but disappeared in favor of "help me, government" ideology. This is bad, and coming from a slightly-right leaning centrist <gasp?>

 

Yes, the degree to which many people look to the feds as the solutions to life's problems and want to duck any real responsibility for their own lives is sad and alarming.