Mass Effect 3

[stingerhs]

well, i've played through this game multiple times now, and i can understand what they were thinking when they wrote the ending. as i've done a bit of writing in the past, i know firsthand that, as a writer, you don't want the ending to be forgettable. why? because the last impression is a lasting impression. you want something different to happen that deviates from expectations, at least a little.

 

what Bioware did here, though, almost seems rushed. they can say that they put a lot of time and thought into it, but i beg to differ. IMHO, it feels like they had originally put in that grand and epic ending that we were all expecting, and somewhere towards the end of the dev cycle, a senior level person took a look at it and said, "No, lets do something different where the player has to make one last choice."

 

as a writer, i'm not opposed to giving the player one last choice as it fits in with the premise of the game. i just would've done it different:

to me, the synthesis choice makes the least amount of sense. sure, every world could've been flooded with nanobots or something to turn organics into partial synthetics, but how do you turn, say the Geth, into a partial organic?? sure you could get creative, but to me it doesn't make sense.

 

my proposal would be that the Catalyst is actually a "Master" Reaper, or at least the synthetic lifeform that originally created or controlled the Reapers, and it currently controls the Reapers. instead of it seemingly being able to read your mind, just make it access the databases that are likely still inside the Citadel (it is right there, after all) to know who Shepherd is and so on.

 

for background on the Catalyst, it could be a synthetic that was created by an organic species to help fight off invaders of some kind. once the invaders were destroyed, the synthetic's creators would have some sort of conflict with the synthetics that results in the synthetics starting to systematically wipe out all organic life. the Catalyst, however, opposed the logic that all organics should be destroyed, and it came up with its solution to prevent future organics from creating new synthetics.

 

the choice would just be destruction or control, same as before. however, the reason a choice needs to be made is simple: the Catalyst lacks emotional insight into how organics feel about its "solution". the Crucible, then, is actually the Catalyst's plan to allow organics to break the cycle.

 

the destruction choice should remain the same as it seems to be quite logical, and that includes the destruction of EDI and the Geth. the control choice, however, could use some tweaking. my idea is simply this: the control choice transforms Shepherd into the new Catalyst (which, as you remember, still controls the Reapers). this would allow an organic to become a full synthetic and bring an emotional insight into the old Catalyst's solution.

 

of course, the implications there would be huge if you were either Renegade/Paragon, and i can imagine that a very different ending would take place one way or the other.

anyways, i think that would do more to solve the actual ending than the Extended Cut will. sure, it will be nice to see some more consequences of our previous actions in the ending and bring some closure to some of the characters, but the ending itself is still going to be a bit disappointing.

 

all that said, i still think that ME3 is the best combination thus far of a 3rd person shooter and an RPG to date. the combat is fantastic, and the RPG elements don't feel stripped down so much like ME2. the characters feel real with a couple of very flat exceptions (still not a Zaeed fan), and the game really tugs at your heartstrings with a number of great moments.

 

overall, ME3 is one of the best games of all time, but it just falls short in one area: the ending.

[DarthParametric]

It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.

[Jamps]

I hate to sound lazy when it comes to playing video games, but I'm pretty sure I'm just going to watch it on YouTube.

[stingerhs]

It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.

i actually do know this, but my point was that it was how it felt at the time when i first experienced the ending.

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

what Bioware did here, though, almost seems rushed. they can say that they put a lot of time and thought into it, but i beg to differ. IMHO, it feels like they had originally put in that grand and epic ending that we were all expecting, and somewhere towards the end of the dev cycle, a senior level person took a look at it and said, "No, lets do something different where the player has to make one last choice."

 

 

It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.

 

I don't know if this has been mentioned here before, but the reason ME3's ending sucked was because all the writers were locked out of creating the ending, except the lead writer, by executive producer Casey Hudson. Up till that point, all the writing was put up for peer review by the whole writing team. But for no discernible reason, Hudson "assumed control" of the ending, and only allowed the lead writer to help.

 

“I have nothing to do with the ending beyond a) having argued successfully a long time ago that we needed a chance to say goodbye to our squad, b)

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

having argued successfully that Cortez shouldn’t automatically die in that shuttle crash,

and c) having written Tali’s goodbye bit, as well as a couple of the holo-goodbyes for people I wrote (Mordin, Kasumi, Jack, etc).

 

No other writer did, either, except for our lead. This was entirely the work of our lead and Casey himself, sitting in a room and going through draft after draft.

 

And honestly, it kind of shows.

 

I very much agree with Weekes here:

 

I still teared up at the ending myself, but really, I was tearing up for the quick flashbacks to old friends and the death of Anderson. I wasn’t tearing up over making a choice that, as it turned out, didn’t have enough cutscene differentiation on it.

 

And to be clear, I don’t even really wish Shepard had gotten a ride-off-into-sunset ending. I was honestly okay with

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

Shepard sacrificing himself.

I just expected it to be for something with more obvious differentiation, and a stronger tie to the core themes — all three of them.”

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

to me, the synthesis choice makes the least amount of sense. sure, every world could've been flooded with nanobots or something to turn organics into partial synthetics, but how do you turn, say the Geth, into a partial organic?? sure you could get creative, but to me it doesn't make sense.

 

I would imagine the change would at a cellular level. To that end, I think the "circuit board" texture effect was kind of silly. But I suppose they needed some way to obviously communicate the change that had happened.

 

my proposal would be that the Catalyst is actually a "Master" Reaper, or at least the synthetic lifeform that originally created or controlled the Reapers, and it currently controls the Reapers. instead of it seemingly being able to read your mind, just make it access the databases that are likely still inside the Citadel (it is right there, after all) to know who Shepherd is and so on.

That was my impression. Are people actually considering that the Catalyst isn't an AI, but some sort of supernatural entity?

I don't think reading minds is a feat to put past the Reapers. But why the Catalyst chose the form of the boy Shepard saw, of all forms, beats me.

 

for background on the Catalyst, it could be a synthetic that was created by an organic species to help fight off invaders of some kind. once the invaders were destroyed, the synthetic's creators would have some sort of conflict with the synthetics that results in the synthetics starting to systematically wipe out all organic life. the Catalyst, however, opposed the logic that all organics should be destroyed, and it came up with its solution to prevent future organics from creating new synthetics.

 

I imagine that Catalyst to be the result of some sort of Singularity, uncountable eons ago. The Catalyst and its 'solution' is exactly the kind of scenario scientists in our world are currently debating about, as they predict that a self improving AI is a probable eventuality that will occur in our lifetime.

 

 

the destruction choice should remain the same as it seems to be quite logical, and that includes the destruction of EDI and the Geth. the control choice, however, could use some tweaking. my idea is simply this: the control choice transforms Shepherd into the new Catalyst (which, as you remember, still controls the Reapers). this would allow an organic to become a full synthetic and bring an emotional insight into the old Catalyst's solution.

 

The destruction ending makes the least sense to me. IMO, all technology is nothing but a careful arrangement of minerals and processed natural substances with the introduction of electricity. How would the Catalyst's explosion differentiate between mundane electronics, and "synthetic life", as it calls it? What about a simple battery connected to a lightbulb? Because that's fundamentally that same as a computer (metals with electricity flowing through it).

 

all that said, i still think that ME3 is the best combination thus far of a 3rd person shooter and an RPG to date. the combat is fantastic, and the RPG elements don't feel stripped down so much like ME2. the characters feel real with a couple of very flat exceptions (still not a Zaeed fan), and the game really tugs at your heartstrings with a number of great moments.

 

overall, ME3 is one of the best games of all time, but it just falls short in one area: the ending.

Agree.

[Prime]

So, I haven't really gotten far with ME3 yet. Now the the question is do I get the extended cut and never experience the original ending?

[Sabretooth]

It wasn't rushed. The end is virtually unchanged from what was in the leaked script months before release. It was just extremely poor writing.

 

And scripts leaked months before release imply the game wasn't rushed how? Obviously they weren't working uptil the day before release, but IIRC the ending was done in October, which is absurdly late a time to be wrapping up the writing.

[mimartin]

So, I haven't really gotten far with ME3 yet. Now the the question is do I get the extended cut and never experience the original ending?

 

Without seeing the extended cut that is hard to say. With BioWares track record lately, I'm just worried that they don't mess up the ending even worse trying to fix it. Frankly I love the ending and the game up until the last elevator ride, after that I have accepted it for what it is without forcing total hate for the entire series.

[DarthParametric]

And scripts leaked months before release imply the game wasn't rushed how?

When it leaked was not when it was written. It was finished well before then - the "script" was ripped from the TLK of a beta version.

 

So, I haven't really gotten far with ME3 yet. Now the the question is do I get the extended cut and never experience the original ending?

You can't. The EC is the original ending, just with some extra dialogue. There is no new ending, as they have repeatedly said. You're still going to be served up what everyone else got back in March.

[logan23]

Since you have to have a save before the Attack on the Cerberus base,...I'm guessing we will see scenes about How the Citadel moved and info on who got out before it was moved.

 

Fingers cross with being able to argue with the Star Kid, even if it doesn't change the outcome,...just like the option to argue with it,....lol Bad Star child!..Go to your Room and take your Space Magic with you! lol

 

Over all I just want them to make it flow better and make more sense - Meaning less just saying to the player ,use your imagination-

 

I'm not looking for a new ending but would be interesting if these tease anything with the Indoctrinate theory, but doubt that, ....All I want it to do is fill in the blanks and not allow me to feel like the universe is doomed...Thats all..Then I could do a second playthrough...(fingers cross)

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

I've been looking into the indoctrination theory recently, and I'm pretty much sold. I'm going to be *very* surprised if aspects of this theory isn't part of the Extended Cut.

 

Two 1.5 hour doco's with pretty damning evidence that Bioware is very much likely in the process of executing the biggest troll in gaming history:

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

 

(This BBCode requires its accompanying plugin to work properly.)

[logan23]

I don't believe they will say yes or no to the indoctrination theory but I wouldn't be surprise if we see a future DLC that actually adds it to the game. Bioware is known for listening to players and they know many are interested in this theory.

 

They could easily add in content like the Omega DLC, and build one where it actually has a side story where Shepard is fighting Indoctrination. This would be a cool way to add some interesting DLC content at the same time giving a wink to the fan base.

 

I would be down for an Indoctrination DLC that happens before the ending of the game. If they did they should add in Harbinger as the main enemy there so if the EC does not expand on him, then this DLC could resolve the feeling we didn't get to fight him, wither its with guns or best mentally- argument. I would love to see a inner fight between Shepard and Harbinger inside Shepard's mind before the ending of Me3 as part of an Indoctrination DLC.

[Boba Rhett]

I'm going to be *very* surprised if aspects of this theory isn't part of the Extended Cut.

 

 

I'd start practicing my "surprised" face now if I were you.

[Trex]

I think about 30% of me buys indoctrination theory, but if it turns out to be true and intended the whole time by Bioware, 80% of me will consider it awesome.

[logan23]

I tweeted the ME3 community manager about the idea of the Indoctrination DLC (happens before ending). Will let you know if i hear anything back.

[mimartin]

If indoctrination is part of the answer, I will burn my copies of the series, quit TOR and never play a BioWare game again. IMO the stupidest theory ever.

[LDR]

I thought the Indoctrination Theory was burned at the stake.

 

Guess not.

[Sabretooth]

When it leaked was not when it was written. It was finished well before then - the "script" was ripped from the TLK of a beta version.

 

In "The Final Days of Mass Effect 3" iPad app, journalist Geoff Keighley discusses how Hudson and writer Mac Walters were debating the final bits of end game dialogue "right up until the end of 2011," even delaying Martin Sheen's Illusive Man voice recording session from August to mid-November to give more writing time.

 

That sounds like rushed to me, Parametric.

[Dread Advocate]

I thought the Indoctrination Theory was burned at the stake.

 

Guess not.

 

This. I though Bioware shot the Indoctrination Theory down not long before they announced the Extended Cut.

[logan23]

Bioware won't touch the topic of Indoctrination Theory...but I would bet money that the EC will not say no fully to it but will not use the Indoctrination Theory in it. They will just add in new details on the existing ending.

 

But a certain number of the fanbase that's interested in the Indoctrination Theory.

 

I can see Bioware releasing an Indoctrination DLC that explores the concept of Indoctrination but this content would be before the ME3 ending, I mean before the return to Earth. It would be like any DLC, a section of it's own and would not change the ending.

 

 

@mimartin- Don't worry Bioware will not be jumping on the Indoctrination Theory train lol

They have defended their vision for the ending, they won't change it. The ending will stay as it is in the Vanilla game. =)

[JesusIsGonnaOwnSatan]

I tweeted the ME3 community manager about the idea of the Indoctrination DLC (happens before ending). Will let you know if i hear anything back.

 

This. I though Bioware shot the Indoctrination Theory down not long before they announced the Extended Cut.

 

Bioware won't touch the topic of Indoctrination Theory...but I would bet money that the EC will not say no fully to it but will not use the Indoctrination Theory in it. They will just add in new details on the existing ending.

 

@mimartin- Don't worry Bioware will not be jumping on the Indoctrination Theory train lol

They have defended their vision for the ending, they won't change it. The ending will stay as it is in the Vanilla game. =)

 

Here are some relevant tweets:

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me that she/they're going to extra efforts to specifically *not* disprove the IT, but rather to make it ambiguous.

 

Show spoiler

(hidden content - requires Javascript to show)

If I were to guess, I think the EC is going to have Shepard waking up in London, realizing what he just saw was an indoctrination attempt by Harbinger. It'll also probably have some sort of final battle. I'd wager it's going to be with the Illusive Man.

 

~6 hours to go...

[DarthParametric]

That sounds like rushed to me, Parametric.

Debating a few lines of dialogue is not the same as writing the whole ending.

 

In that specific example I think it was primarily because they debated having the IM as a final boss fight, but ultimately decided it would be too "gamey" (after all, you don't want icky game mechanics getting in the way of your glorious cinematic artistry). Plus I'm pretty sure when you have a guy like Martin Sheen in the booth, you want to make sure you have everything finalised so you don't have to call him back to re-record anything. I doubt he comes cheap.

 

It seems to me that she/they're going to extra efforts to specifically *not* disprove the IT, but rather to make it ambiguous.

Of course. If they don't come out and shoot it down it allows people to remain in denial. People in denial are still invested in the franchise, so you can potentially sell them DLC and other product.

[Paddy Garcia]

Take anything and everything Jessica Merizan says with a grain of salt. She isn't actually a developer; just the community manager. She's not always informed on the super secret stuff.

[Red Hessian]

Hey, when someone tests the EC, post your findings on what's been added and if something's been changed. I'm in a mood for a good laugh.

[Darth Payne]

Just noticed (and started the download of) the Extended Cut on my 360.

 

Seems to be 1.85GB in size...