Am I the only one who thinks Star Wars should die?

[Primogen]

There are a lot of things that Star Wars would be removed from canon or otherwise retconned.

 

The Prequel Trilogy should be retconned into a series of B-movies made by a shameless holodirector in the New Republic trying to cash in on the Skywalker name. The NJO books should likewise be a series of crappy in-universe novels about the Yuuzhan Vong war, taking it in extremely broad strokes. Legacy of the Force, likewise, likewise, and then when we get to Fate of the Jedi, we can actually let it be in-universe.

[mstr kenobi]

"There are none so blind as those, that will not see."

It's just an opinion, it's not blindness, not everyone will have the same opinion as yours i happen to like better Grievous the way he was in Genndy's cartoon as opposed to the new series.

 

 

Isn't the whole Genndy series Jedi playing with "those toy robots"? Why the double standards?

 

Hardly, while they were there in Genndy's series, in the new series we have entire episodes dedicated to their stupidity and ineptitude.

And the constant jokes...

 

Are you blind, or can't you read what I just wrote? I've written examples for each of your "criteria", and yet you seem to ignore what I wrote and create strawman to compensate your lack of argumentation. On Rookies they are denfending an Outpost from a relevant system. On Ambush, they are negotiating an allegiance of a relevant system. Do you still want to ignore the facts?

 

Jesus man, i simply don't see it... i don't see how those victory's changed anything in the big picture, the war effort is still in the same place and things are in the same stalemate as before, they are still doing the same things.

 

IMO this series is milking the cow to extreme levels.

 

 

And please stop using "you are wrong" as your aguments.

 

I'm a "Tali"-fan

 

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I also don't like her

[Prime]

I was referring to Alexrd, not the world in general

Sorry, my mistake!

 

The Gary Stu Grievous. I remember.

Gary Stu or not, I preferred him. At the time he seemed like a credible villain that the Jedi couldn't run roughshod over.

 

Grievous was a Gary Stu? How about Ahsoka????

Actually, I think the claims that Ahsoka is overpowered are greatly exaggerated. What specifically are you referring to?

 

I tell you what, the Clone Wars is all about, CIS got this new, surprise, ultimate weapon that is gonna turn the tide of war, we gotta stop them!!!! But only on the next episode.

Either that or bounty hunter whatishisname is up to something bad that can change the war, but it doesn't really.

These comments make me think you haven't watched the show in a long time. What about all the shows that have nothing to do with those things?

 

How many more episodes do you think i need to watch? lol

None, since you have already decided. Or you could heed some of the comments of some others and give it another chance. The only downside is that you may find you have less to whine about.

 

Jar Jar didn't hurt Star Wars Canon. He was just another organ in the massive parasite that is The Phantom Menace.

I see comments like this a lot, obviously. Yet, for some reason I can't explain, I seem to rather watch TPM than AOTC. I guess there is no accounting for taste, huh?

 

Or maybe it is just because Liam Neeson is straight dope...

 

Ahsoka is miss "i'm always right"

But the key is that her character is written to act and think that way, but not be portrayed that way. I'm not saying you should like her (who really likes teenagers? ), but it doesn't make it bad writing.

 

I meant the Ewoks series and comic books. Some of the crap that came out with makes Jar Jar positively sophisticated entertainment.

I thought the Droids cartoon really had the SW feel though...

 

OK, this thread is actually making me want to check out TCW just to see how bad/good it really is.

In some ways it is better than the prequels, and some ways not. In a nutshell I'd break it down like this:

 

The Good

For me anyway, probably the thing I enjoy the most is that we really get to see the Kenobi/Skywalker relationship we are told about, and Anakin portrayed is the hero we heard about. We really see their friendship, with all the brotherly banter and sarcasm and still getting the sense of how close they are. Anakin actually shows some maturity, sense of responsibility, and selflessness. Flawed as he is I actually like Anakin a lot more now.

 

The animation is greatly improved over what it was the first season. Lightsaber combat in particular really stands out. The battles are often large and sweeping, with tons of action. Some episodes are just real good adventures that have the old school SW feel.

 

As much as people tend to take shots at Lucas, I think it is great that we are getting SW background and information from him. The Mortis arch for example, while a bit strange, actually explained a lot about how the Force really works.

 

And Jar Jar very rarely appears, if he sticks in your craw. And Ziro the Hutt is awesome. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

 

The Bad

Not every episode is strong, as one would expect. Some of the political episodes have been a bit simplistic in Season 3. I think Padme is portrayed poorly sometimes. IMO the shows strength is definitely in the action eps.

 

Ahsoka is a lightning rod, and I think as a character she doesn't really fit because she is quite similar to a young Anakin in terms of attitudes and he was supposed to be pretty unique in the Jedi Order in that regard. Sometimes her teenager-ish attitudes can be very annoying. Some characters seem a bit too cliche and carbon-copies of other SW characters (Maul's brother for example). And sometimes EU characters that appear are portrayed differently, like surfer-dude Quinlan Vos.

 

And the clashes with EU always get people's dander up...

 

Misconceptions

Many of the issues that turned off people initially are no longer relevant. The "roger, roger" droid jokes are almost entirely nonexistent now, for example. And as Chainz mentioned things like the "Skyguy" nicknames are pretty much gone.

 

Hardly, while they were there in Genndy's series, in the new series we have entire episodes dedicated to their stupidity and ineptitude.

And the constant jokes...

Dude, seriously, it hasn't been like that in over 2 seasons.

[Primogen]

The Phantom Menace has an incoherent mess of a plot that's only redeeming quality is it's lack of what George Lucas believes is a love story.

[mimartin]

incoherent mess

 

Much like this thread.

[Hallucination]

Actually, I think the claims that Ahsoka is overpowered are greatly exaggerated. What specifically are you referring to?

Ahsoka is clearly a Mary Sue, as this chart indicates:

[Primogen]

A character can be obnoxious without being a Mary Sue, and a character can be a Mary Sue without being obnoxious.

[Q]

Besides, everybody knows that the goiter has taken over GL's brain

LOL

I just watched the new season of V and i have to say i really likes it better than the 80's tv series.

Hot as she is (and she is HOT), I seriously doubt that even Supergirl can save that train wreck of a show. It does have its good points, but it's going nowhere and its cancellation is just about a foregone conclusion. Sorry.

 

As for the 80s show, it was a train wreck, too, but the original miniseries that spawned it was actually quite good, especially compared to other early-80s TV, which was, in general, pretty awful.

[Darth Avlectus]

My attitude about the CW CGI series is now sort of petering off. I couldn't care less TBH. Tommy made a good point about it, though and I only wish there was in more common media that would introduce children to the colorful facets of reality.

 

Something that's excessively kiddy need not be mutually exclusive to adult violence, you know. It's possible to do a muppets show amidst wanton sex and bloody violence. Doesn't mean it isn't 'kiddy'.

 

Actually very true. Hell, nobody even realizes how F***ing wrong some of the stuff is which kids are exposed to. I have long held it that, for example, Spongebob is not a kids show--though I couldn't quite ferret out why that was. Now re-watching it I am floored with laughter because now I 'get it'.

[VeniVidiVicous]

Okay..

Well in it's current state I can see why a lot of people think that it should die. I would say that the best that could happen for the SW franchise is for someone to slap some sense into George Lucas tbh.

he needs to stop listening to these leeches that are giving him ideas like the force unleashed series and the kids tv show.

Also, if there ever is another SW movie made ever again he probably shouldn't direct or write it.

 

Okay, i'm ranting a bit here but i'll leave this as my main point:

 

In my opinion the main thing killing star wars is all the focus that's put on the PT era. They're tryng to fill in the gaps of those films and in the case of TFU series they're trying to fill in the gaps between episodes 3 & 4 now as well.

This (imo) is the most overdone, unintresting time period for them to focus on.

The sooner they move on the better. Even though they then might start ruining other canon in different time periods instead. If that was the case then yes it should die.

 

 

Lucas has already stated he's going to produce at least 100 episodes regardless of ratings.. so yeah, expect filler. At least in TCW.. the filler either tells some historical backstory, or is used to flesh out characters (however minor they be).

 

Okay, quick points here:

 

1. Further proof GL has lost his marbles, i'd love to see what would actually happen if it suddenly had really low ratings for a few years.

 

2. I tried to give this show a chance but it's clear to me that you have to be a big SW fanboy to try and convince yourself that the show is any good. I like SW but I have taste as well.

Also, I THOUGHT KAREN TRAVISS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB WRITING SW NOVELS! SHE HELPED ME ACTUALLY LIKE SW AGAIN!!!

So the fact that they got rid of her in favour of that god awful tv show didn't sit well with me tbh.

 

And que all the Traviss haters to tell me how wrong I am.................

[Alexrd]

It's just an opinion, it's not blindness, not everyone will have the same opinion as yours i happen to like better Grievous the way he was in Genndy's cartoon as opposed to the new series.

 

And what I've wrote is my opinion. You may like one Grievous over the other, but if Ahsoka is a Mary Sue for you, then should be Grievous.

 

in the new series we have entire episodes dedicated to their stupidity and ineptitude.

 

No, we haven't.

 

And the constant jokes...

 

Only present on some (read: few) episodes of the first season.

 

Jesus man, i simply don't see it...

 

Because you don't want to see it. You have already made up your mind about it. But that shouldn't stop you from accepting the facts. And watch the episodes as proof of those facts.

 

i don't see how those victory's changed anything in the big picture, the war effort is still in the same place and things are in the same stalemate as before, they are still doing the same things.

 

So in the Genndy series. Just because you won a battle doesn't mean you won the war. There are others to be fought.

 

IMO this series is milking the cow to extreme levels.

 

 

And please stop using "you are wrong" as your aguments.

 

I don't use that as my argument. Stop using strawmen. But if you are wrong, there is nothing I can do about it.

[mstr kenobi]

 

Actually, I think the claims that Ahsoka is overpowered are greatly exaggerated. What specifically are you referring to?

 

I never said she's overpowered, even though she always manages to find a way to get away against the big guys (Dooku, Grievous, Assaj) it's quite clear she's outmatched, every Jedi in the series can own the battle droids in battle, perhaps everyone with a weapon can beat them (that's a week point, but TCW can't take the blame for that since Lucas himself choose to portray them this way ).

 

 

The reason why i say she's a Mary Sue is that she is miss i'm always right (which links to your other comment).

You are right about the fact that you can have an obnoxious character who thinks he knows everything, and it's not necessarily bad writing.

The point where things go wrong IMO is when that obnoxious character is actually always right.

 

 

Look at teenager Anakin in AOTC, whiny? Yes. Obnoxious? Yes. Utterly annoying? You bet. Mary Sue? No.

Why not? Because he kept falling flat on his face, he thought he was this awesome guy who could do no wrong, and in absolutely everything he did he failed miserably, he didn't get anything right.

If that annoying brat got everything right, it would've been terrible writing, there is no story if the obnoxious guy gets away with everything.

I think they were aiming to make her this cool, smart teenager, but they missed the mark, and made her annoying, to many adults atleast (i'm sure little girls love her).

 

 

 

I'll try again to explain why i don't like The Clone Wars, the reason i don't like it is:

The series is designed to stay forever in a stalemate, they can't move forward and change things because then they will colide with a little thing called ROTS, they can't drastically alter the key players nor push the war to the brink unless they decide to end the series, that makes it kinda pointless and uninteresting for me. It just keeps on going and going and going...

 

 

 

Other than that, i'm dissapointed that there is very little "war" in TCW, where's the war on the frontline? The huge battles? The series focus too much on the characters doing whatever it is that their doing (which again feels quite irrelevant to me) and we don't get to see an actual war being fought.

 

You may like one Grievous over the other, but if Ahsoka is a Mary Sue for you, then should be Grievous.

 

I think you are confusing overpowered with Mary Sue, at least for me a Mary Sue character is a "perfect" character that will always prevail against all odds.

Grievous is a pawn in this war, he's being played, manipulated by Sidious, he's not even suppoused to win, the fact that he is a toy in Sidious hands automatically stops him from being a Mary Sue as i understand it.

 

 

 

Overpowered? Oh yes overpowered and to be feared, just the way i like my villains Mary Sue? I don't think so.

 

So in the Genndy series. Just because you won a battle doesn't mean you won the war. There are others to be fought.

 

Agreed, but the Genndy series had a very specific target, it had a beggining and an end planned and no time to "waste" so it was constantly pushing forward towards the end of the war, and showing to us the "highlights" pivotal moments.

 

 

 

The structure of the new series, no ending planned, let's keep this thing afloat for as long as possible, goes against that and makes everything feel irrelevant. Tell me, did those super relevant pivotal systems ever get mentioned again? Controlling them help in anything?

[Primogen]

No, no, no.

 

A Mary Sue is a character that effects the behavior of others simply by existing. A character can be utterly worthless trash, do nothing worth noting, and -still- be a sue because his/her presence causes other characters to act out of character. This is how you get the Villain Sue, the 'Anti'-Sue, the Jerkass Sue, the Relationship Sue, and the Mary Tzu. They're all radically different, but they all do the same thing.

[mimartin]

I like SW but I have taste as well.

Also, I THOUGHT KAREN TRAVISS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB WRITING SW NOVELS! SHE HELPED ME ACTUALLY LIKE SW AGAIN!!!

Well even bad taste is taste.

 

Just proves we all have different taste and saying you think something is good or bad is very different than making a statement saying something is good or bad.

[Prime]

Ahsoka is clearly a Mary Sue, as this chart indicates:

By this chart I'm a Mary Sue!

 

he needs to stop listening to these leeches that are giving him ideas like the force unleashed series and the kids tv show.

So one of your many beefs is that there is a kids show at all?

 

I THOUGHT KAREN TRAVISS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB WRITING SW NOVELS! SHE HELPED ME ACTUALLY LIKE SW AGAIN!!!

So the fact that they got rid of her in favour of that god awful tv show didn't sit well with me tbh.

If you are complaining about "ruining other canon in different time periods", Traviss was one of the worst offenders, regardless if her writing was good or not. Not to mentioned the ultimate Gary Stu-ness of her Mandos and Boba Fett.

 

And for the record, she left of her own accord.

 

The point where things go wrong IMO is when that obnoxious character is actually always right.

I think this is the crux of where I disagree. I think it is shown that she is not always right, and makes mistakes.

[Alexrd]

I think this is the crux of where I disagree. I think it is shown that she is not always right, and makes mistakes.

 

Exactly. Hence why I said blindness on his part.

[mstr kenobi]

I think this is the crux of where I disagree. I think it is shown that she is not always right, and makes mistakes.

 

You are nitpicking here, most of the time she argues, disobeys, her master she turns out to be right in the end, and ultimately everything turns out ok.

 

I'm sure there are at least some episodes where she is thought a lesson however.

[Prime]

You are nitpicking here, most of the time she argues, disobeys, her master she turns out to be right in the end, and ultimately everything turns out ok.

 

I'm sure there are at least some episodes where she is thought a lesson however.

How is this nitpicking? If she isn't always written is being correct then does that not reduce her Stu-ness?

[Alexrd]

most of the time she argues, disobeys, her master she turns out to be right in the end, and ultimately everything turns out ok.

 

Enough with the rant. Prove that. And I bolded it.

 

If you've only seen a couple of episodes, you can't use terms like "most of the time" or "always"...

[mimartin]

You are nitpicking here, most of the time she argues, disobeys, her master she turns out to be right in the end, and ultimately everything turns out ok.

 

I'm sure there are at least some episodes where she is thought a lesson however.

 

You're complaining because at the end of the episode they are back where they were? You have just described about 50% of all US television shows. However, as someone that has watched all the clone wars episodes I can honestly state you are misrepresenting The Clone Wars. Yes, at the end of the episode they are still fighting a war. So what, this is a 30 min TV show, not a 90 min movie. Yes, we know where they will end up because we have seen RotS, but that does not mean we know how they got there.

 

I do not dispute that some episodes are throwaways; they have no real implication into the overall Star Wars universe. That does not however mean they are all throwaways. Many of the episodes seem to grow the characters beyond the cardboard cutouts of the prequels. Many episodes also build on what happened in a previous unrelated story arch. Your uninformed comments mean you either are purposely misrepresenting the subject because of your distain for it, you are merely looking to provoke a response or you saw two episodes and hated it.

 

Not that I care, carry on…

[mstr kenobi]

It's nitpicking, or cherry-picking maybe, because you are using the fact she gets it wrong once every 15 appearances (please don't nitpick this as well, focus on the main argument, i would hate to someone to go saying "Ha!!! by my count she gets it wrong every 11,5 appearances") as proof of her non sue-ness.

 

If i see someone being pretty much always right, being wrong once, still getting away with it, just so they can be thought a lesson about not being so brash, impatient, respect his elders still seems sue-ish to me.

 

 

You're complaining because at the end of the episode they are back where they were? You have just described about 50% of all US television shows. However, as someone that has watched all the clone wars episodes I can honestly state you are misrepresenting The Clone Wars. Yes, at the end of the episode they are still fighting a war. So what, this is a 30 min TV show, not a 90 min movie. Yes, we know where they will end up because we have seen RotS, but that does not mean we know how they got there.

 

I do not dispute that some episodes are throwaways; they have no real implication into the overall Star Wars universe. That does not however mean they are all throwaways. Many of the episodes seem to grow the characters beyond the cardboard cutouts of the prequels. Many episodes also build on what happened in a previous unrelated story arch. Your uninformed comments mean you either are purposely misrepresenting the subject because of your distain for it, you are merely looking to provoke a response or you saw two episodes and hated it.

 

 

I guess it has to do with expectations, and fit to the franchise, i can watch a comedy like the Big Bang Theory (the only american series i watch currently) go back and forth, even though we all expect Leonard to end with Penny in the end.

 

 

But having a tied down Star wars series, honestly, it's not for me.

Just like killing immortals every week and never getting anywhere wasn't good for Highlander.

 

 

That's the whole story, someone asked why people have problems with the thing, i think it was prime, and i obliged, i don't like it because it never goes anywhere and it's not even suppoused to go anywhere.

 

 

I realize that for you it might seem different, but everytime i watch it, it gives me a feeling of "so... where does that take me?" and that makes it pointless for me. Emphasis on the "for me" please.

 

And i do have this feeling that a big number of episodes are a big fat joke, mainly because when i watched the series (well in excess of 2 episodes, rest assured ), that seemed very common, pathetic enemys, childish jokes...

But that's besides the point i was trying to make and i have no proof whatsoever that is still the case.

Of course the only people that still watch it, are the ones that managed to "survive" season 1, of course they think it's significantly improved since then.

They just have to (cheap shot here just for fun, ignore it lol).

 

Enough with the rant. Prove that. And I bolded it.

 

If you've only seen a couple of episodes, you can't use terms like "most of the time" or "always"...

 

Fair enough. But even then, i have to say that at a first moment you agreed that Ahsoka was a Mary Sue.

You only said that by those standards Grievous was a sue too, i said that i don't think Grievous is one and told you why i think so, and now you want me to prove to you that Ahsoka is a Sue?

 

And easy there buddy, let's be friends

 

obs:mimartin the no double posting rule is kicking my ass

everyone is out for blood and i can't breathe

[Primogen]

Just because someone makes a mistake does not make them -not- a Sue. Wesley Crusher occasionally screwed up, he was still an obnoxious sue.

[Alexrd]

Your uninformed comments mean you either are purposely misrepresenting the subject because of your distain for it, you are merely looking to provoke a response or you saw two episodes and hated it.

 

This.

[Darth Avlectus]

Just because someone makes a mistake does not make them -not- a Sue. Wesley Crusher occasionally screwed up, he was still an obnoxious sue.

 

Understandably people will discuss and debate when a favorite character is called a mary sue. What I don't understand is why some people aren't engaging in the fact that sesame street has a pimp on there.

[Tommycat]

One thing I will say for the TCW series is that it made me actually LIKE Anakin. That's something the movies did not do. I really didn't like how Anakin was portrayed in the movies. TCW turned a flimsy character into someone I actually care about.

 

Ahsoka... never really cared much for her. I just keep telling myself that I'm sure in one of the episodes, she will die a horrible death, because we don't see her in ROTS.