Differences in the Amiga version of MI2

[ThunderPeel2001]

Given the recent discovery of the removal of the word "midget" in the special edition when you try to pick up Wally, and the above surprise change (albeit apparently unintentional), it's made me wonder if there's any other Amiga changes we might have missed?

 

Is there a way to compare the scripts between the Amiga and DOS versions of MI2? I'm really intrigued if there's any differences we've never spotted. 

 

Edit: I just found this script dump. Presumably from the DOS version: http://www.lltvg.com/wiki/Monkey_Island_2:_LeChuck's_Revenge/Script_dumps/en_full

 

And I immediately spotted some dialogue I've never seen before? Is this in the game? From the Bart and Fink conversation:

OK, that's enough.
Aw, I wasn't done.
Oh, I wish I could par-lay\255\001Some French with Governor Marley.\255\003I'd say to her, `Voo-lay-voo?`
OK!  That's enough!\255\003No songs about Governor Marley.
Looks like Guybrush is still carrying a torch for the Governor.
Too bad he can't even talk to her in English!
Sorry, Mr. Sensitive.\255\003The only other songs I know are dirty ones about Governor Marley.
Me too.

Edited May 10, 2022 by ThunderPeel2001

[elTee]

1 minute ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

Is there a way to compare the scripts between the Amiga and DOS versions of MI2? I'm really intrigued if there's any differences we've never spotted. 

Yes, but it wouldn't be much fun! 

 

You'd need to decompile a PC copy and an amiga copy (can't remember what tool you'd use for that, possibly scumm packer?) then manually run individual scripts through descumm. Then you'd need to compare the outputs.

 

As far as I know, nobody has ever done this, and it isn't for a lack of interest 😂

[ThunderPeel2001]

Something else I've spotted... Guybrush has a random list of excuses if he's caught outside of the Bloody Lip kitchen after getting fired:

 

You're supposed to be cooking.

I took my break.  It's the law.
The knives needed sharpening.
I went out for a smoke.
I was out of milk.
I had to go to the bathroom.\255\003Don't worry, I washed my hands.
Uh, I had to buy some eggs.
I had to go to the grocery store.

Nice try.\255\003But not good enough.\255\003You're fired.

Again, not sure I ever noticed that?

[elTee]

Another example of something I learned from the scripts (that I COULD have learned by just playing the game) is how many bespoke lines there are for blowing the ship's horn in various locations. 

[Huz]

Not sure if you're asking whether the Bart and Fink stuff is in the game at all, or in the Amiga version in particular? It's definitely in the DOS version - it's what happens if you stop the "99 bottles of beer" song ("Aw, I wasn't done") and then ask for another song. If you ask again you get the part about them only knowing dirty songs about Elaine.

[ThunderPeel2001]

2 minutes ago, Huz said:

Not sure if you're asking whether the Bart and Fink stuff is in the game at all, or in the Amiga version in particular? It's definitely in the DOS version - it's what happens if you stop the "99 bottles of beer" song ("Aw, I wasn't done") and then ask for another song. If you ask again you get the part about them only knowing dirty songs about Elaine.

 

Ah wow. I don't recall ever seeing that dialogue before. Either I'm just getting old and I forgot or I assumed they would have repeated the same song. Thanks!

[Blondebeard]

3 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Ah wow. I don't recall ever seeing that dialogue before. Either I'm just getting old and I forgot or I assumed they would have repeated the same song. Thanks!

I also only saw it recently when someone mentioned it on one of my YouTube comments.

 

Dialogue/singing from both SE and VGA below:

 
The 100 bottles of beer dialogue is slightly different for the SE as you can only pick between 4, 42 or 508 while in the DOS version it seems to be completely random. They most likely did this to avoid recording all the numbers.

[ThunderPeel2001]

It's weird. I remember everything but the stuff about Governor Marley. I wonder if THAT was in the Amiga version? Hmm...

[Serge]

The Governor Marley song is in the Amiga version. The one thing I remember from the scripts (other than some iMUSE stuff being reduced, and palette colors obviously having to be changed) is that the mixing of different-colored drinks in the Woodtick bar was removed.

[ThunderPeel2001]

On 5/10/2022 at 7:58 PM, Serge said:

The Governor Marley song is in the Amiga version. The one thing I remember from the scripts (other than some iMUSE stuff being reduced, and palette colors obviously having to be changed) is that the mixing of different-colored drinks in the Woodtick bar was removed.

 

Hmm. I played the Amiga version and I definitely remember mixing different coloured drinks! (I was stuck on the spit contest for ages.)

[Thrik]

Yes it does appear so. 😅

 

https://youtu.be/Va-ObdSdDoc?t=5822s

[Remi]

Doesn't it just skip that part in the Lite mode?

[Serge]

Strange - it's completely missing from my Amiga version (although I guess it might just have been moved to a different room, don't remember if it's a local script - but also don't remember seeing it anywhere else)

Edited May 12, 2022 by Serge

[Huz]

1 hour ago, Remi said:

Doesn't it just skip that part in the Lite mode?

 

In Easy mode there's no need to mix drinks, but you can. I think! Man, I only played it on easy about a week ago and it's gone already.

 

Ok, tried it on my save and what I said is a true fact.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Huz

[Serge]

5 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

 

Hmm. I played the Amiga version and I definitely remember mixing different coloured drinks! (I was stuck on the spit contest for ages.)

 

Had another look, and yeah, the script is just moved out of the bar (where it lives in other versions) and into a special "room" that's on all the disks - so that you don't have to swap disks to mix the drinks. 😂

[Thrik]

Hah! Bloody Amiga and its bloody disks.

[Huz]

Haha, that's a really interesting change they had to make. I can just imagine the irritation of mixing a drink for the first time, and having to swap disks. I suppose if you'd been stuck for a while, the feeling of satisfaction that the game was actually going to let you do a new thing might offset it a bit!

 

Does that mean the inventory icons for the different-coloured drinks are on each disk, or is it the same icon with the colour changed in code? Or do all the inventory icons get loaded into memory anyway?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wow. So they did make some effort to reduce disk swapping then... I think when Largo walks into the bar and spits had to be one of the worst disk swapping moments in Amiga history.

 

It's an interesting problem actually. So if they can move things to other disks, I wonder if they could have reduced the number of swaps dramatically if they'd duplicated content, but increased the number of disks they distributed? (If only the Amiga had had HD disk drive support!)

[Huz]

I think they did put more effort into avoiding disk swaps for MI2 than for its immediate successor, Fate of Atlantis - I can remember that being a lot more painful. However, it's possible they just had the luxury of having more free space to play with in MI2, so they had more freedom to duplicate things or shuffle them around.

 

The all-time worst disk swap still sticks in my mind - when you arrive on Phatt Island from the boat, you had to insert disk 5, then disk 6, then disk 5 again. (Possibly the other way around...)

[Serge]

10 minutes ago, Huz said:

Does that mean the inventory icons for the different-coloured drinks are on each disk, or is it the same icon with the colour changed in code? Or do all the inventory icons get loaded into memory anyway?

Inventory icons are a bit of a special case in SCUMM. They're object images, but they have special status in SCUMM - where everything else is mostly unloaded when you leave a room, inventory icons have their own behaviour, but - at a quick glance - they're actually present on at least disk 1, 2 and 11 (haven't checked others).

 

The special room - called, fittingly, "all-disks" (the index file has original room file names for the game) - has global scripts, costumes, sounds etc. No object images, though (and obviously no background for the room) - because normal objects cannot actually move between rooms. The hamster in Weird Ed's cage is not the same one you see when you put it in the microwave - they're two entirely different objects. Yeah, there's some "The Prestige" level existential dread there.

[ThunderPeel2001]

4 hours ago, Huz said:

The all-time worst disk swap still sticks in my mind - when you arrive on Phatt Island from the boat, you had to insert disk 5, then disk 6, then disk 5 again. (Possibly the other way around...)

 

I'm tempted to boot up an Amiga emulator and walk around Scabb in real time just to remind myself what I patiently sat through without complaint. I bet my modern, instant gratification self, would be absolutely horrified.

[Scummbuddy]

Swapping disks (in moderation) is such a fun additional part of the old gaming experience. I miss that, and modem sounds.

[dwa]

I had a look at that missing Elaine line, within ScummVM. Thanks to Serge for this wonderful analysis, by the way!

 

Can anyone else owning that Amiga version confirm that the problem actually doesn't show up with ScummVM? (I have that version from the Limited Run Games set). Because it's fine here. Which is strange, because I can't see any intentional fix for that in ScummVM code; it looks like it work there because of some implementation difference, side effect, speed difference, luck, or whatever

 

I fixed that Amiga palette bug last month, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lennSAcOqag (and if you want the original bug to be preserved, there's a new "Enable game enhancements" toggle for that in ScummVM UI).

 

As for comparing the scripts of various Monkey2 variants, the ScummTR/ScummRP tools may be of some help, here (e.g. scummtr -g monkey2 -cw -h -of text.txt). I didn't really explore the Amiga version yet, but for example the Macintosh version fixes some original typos, and yeah, it looks like the legal team got involved in the Special Editions too (see LogicDeluxe's comments here; the Ultimate Talkie version lets you choose between the original and err… "updated" text).

 

And there's also some untriggered text in the game (either because of a script error, or because they forgot to completely remove some ideas that they chose not to keep for the final game; in the case of Monkey2 I think it's often the latter). For example, type script 201 run in the ScummVM debugger just before you walk down the stairs to see Wally in LeChuck's fortress; you'll have some extra lines from Wally.

Edited May 21, 2022 by dwa

[Scummbuddy]

What are Wally's unused lines?!

 

More whining about being captured? What a baby...

[ThunderPeel2001]

23 hours ago, dwa said:

fixed that Amiga palette bug last month, though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lennSAcOqag (and if you want the original bug to be preserved, there's a new "Enable game enhancements" toggle for that in ScummVM UI).

I remember offering the stick to Guybrush in the English Amiga version — never saw that bug?