Return to Monkey Island

[KestrelPi]

Idle soundtrack thought as I prepare to sleep: love the snippets we've heard so far. But I hope as well as the kind of background, slightly noodly pieces which are more about mood setting we're also gonna hear some really memorable new themes and musical set pieces in this game. I'm sure we will, I'm just aching to hear them. As much as I love the more background stuff it was the team's melodic sensibilities that really had the biggest influence on me as a composer, and ah, I really want to hear it.

[Garystu]

42 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

Tangent: Elaine went "woof" at Human LeChuck. Did she see him as "woof" when he was alive?

 

Who wouldn't? 😍

[MurraySchull]

9 hours ago, ThunderPeel2001 said:

NEWS! More news coming... soon!

 

Presuming it's not referring to the other Monkey Island Mondays, I'd imagine this will be additional platforms (most likely Mac and iOS) and/or an official release date. I'm still betting on Monday 19th September, Talk Like A Pirate Day.

 

I really liked those "Making Of" videos that we got ahead of the two special editions that went into detail about what to expect from the game. Hoping we get something like that this time as well!

Edited July 27, 2022 by fentongames

[Vainamoinen]

21 hours ago, KestrelPi said:

Apart from more platforms, I wonder what else this could possibly mean that isn't a release date.

 

More platforms are extreeeemely welcome. I so want to wishlist El Pollo Diabolo out of ReMI on gog.com. But also, releasing on the two major consoles (or rather their capable and available predecessors) would be cool, I really don't want anybody to be left behind. And not just via stream, physical releases would be great too.

 

Of course you can't release physical PC or console editions weeks or even month after the game's out (unless you're Limited Run), so they'd have to be synched up with one release date. 

 

My folks are also biting their nails because they want voiceovers in German, and of course hot on our heels are the no less nutjobby fans in Italy, Spain, Portugal, and France. Devolver could announce what deals with what publishers they struck. For Germany, Koch Media and Daedalic seem the only possible options.

 

Then we could get news about an official soundtrack release, maybe even on bandcamp, which has been a fairly great outlet for Devolver and wadjeteye soundtracks these past years. 

 

Also merchandise via the Devolver store, of course! Devolver really isn't particularly inventive with their merch (like, for example, Telltale was). But the soundtrack on vinyl, T-shirts, beanies, and art prints are kind of what they're usually doing, and that wouldn't be wrong at all.

 

20 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

In Revenge, Guybrush chooses treasure over Elaine. In Curse, Guybrush chooses Elaine over treasure... literally.

 

He literally chooses Elaine over treasure to the extent that he changes a golden treasure in his possession back into Elaine.

 

Thanks for having your mind blown by something I posted, by the way. 😊

 

It's kind of a very low bar though, reverting a gold statue back into a living person instead of shoving it into your pirate hoard and introducing it as "the ol' ball and chain" to visitors. 😂

 

I still have to think about Marius' beginning joke in his flash version of LeChuck's Revenge. Guybrush looking for friendship, but stupid pirates put the thought in his head that treasure is so much better. I think that, right there, is Guybrush Threepwood described perfectly in three seconds. But I don't think that his inability to focus on one thing means he's not ready for a relationship.

 

And then I think about Dom's introductory words to the ReMI trailer: "ships, fights, love, treasure, betrayal, and root beer". Six words with love in the middle, looking like they're all of equal worth. That too, it's so Guybrush. He speaks of love (for the first time?), but he's only juggling several things he loves and thinks they belong to a good story.

 

One of the things I loved in Tales of Monkey Island was how Morgan was introduced as a rival to Elaine, much more aggressive, much more competitive, much less compromising. And she ruthlessly did the same thing Guybrush did to Elaine, she chose her professional career (pirate hunting) over loyalty (or fangirling, whatever). She was kind of a mirror held up to Guybrush. We had no shortage of people on the Telltale forums shipping the two. Guybrush was never interested, not a damn second.

 

I have yet to see a relationship between equal partners in Elaine and Guybrush, but the loyalty, I've seen that.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Vainamoinen

[Toymafia88]

I really prefer the new design 🥰

Edited July 28, 2022 by Toymafia88

[Laserschwert]

Only now I realize that his front piece of hair has the exact same shape as in that old art by Rex. Like 100% identical. 

[neoncolor8]

22 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

I still can't get over what a huge improvement the new Guybrush design is:

 

They got rid of the hillbilly touch.

He looked happier back then though.

I wonder what happened. 

[demone]

I really like the expression Guybrush has. It conveys pretty well that he's been through a lot. Even Dominic's lines heard so far are a bit subdued, especially in the trailer, so I'm really interested to see what Guybrush's character is like in this. Even his walk/run seems a lot more focused. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by demone

[Garystu]

Rexbox's old Guybrush design was fine as a piece of fanart, don't get me wrong. There's a lot to like about it. I don't want to be seen as going hard on fanartists.

 

But

- The expression is extremely zonked. He's got no chin, his eyes are too far apart. The face doesn't look like it could show a lot of different emotions, its built to show This extremely goofy One. Fine for a one-off artwork but not OK for a proper protagonist design.

- The ponytail doesn't read as a ponytail. It looks like he's just got long hair in the back, like a mullet.

- I know a focus on using simple shapes is a part of the art style, but many of the key shapes here are uninteresting squares. Square is a good shape, but maybe not when its this plain?

 

Yet with a decade of experience and working in a professional capacity, all those issues were fixed! Its such a huge improvement.

 

This is praise, but presented in such a critical way whoops.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Guybrush Transmasc
🧙

[KestrelPi]

48 minutes ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

Rexbox's old Guybrush design was fine as a piece of fanart, don't get me wrong. There's a lot to like about it. I don't want to be seen as going hard on fanartists.

 

But

- The expression is extremely zonked. He's got no chin, his eyes are too far apart. The face doesn't look like it could show a lot of different emotions, its built to show This extremely goofy One. Fine for a one-off artwork but not OK for a proper protagonist design.

- The ponytail doesn't read as a ponytail. It looks like he's just got long hair in the back, like a mullet.

- I know a focus on using simple shapes is a part of the art style, but many of the key shapes here are uninteresting squares. Square is a good shape, but maybe not when its this plain?

 

Yet with a decade of experience and working in a professional capacity, all those issues were fixed! Its such a huge improvement.

 

This is praise, but presented in such a critical way whoops.

 

I'd suggest that possibly this is less about experience and more about function. Rex was already a pretty experienced artist a decade ago, and around that time he was artistically leading projects like Tearaway and was already winning awards for his work. Of course, artists of all kinds are always developing and growing, but I'm still somewhat sceptical of an idea that he looked back on that old piece of art and decided to fix what he saw as issues.

 

He clearly made the new version with reference to it, that much is obvious when you compare the colours and the hair shape and so on. But context is important. The portrait as you point out wasn't a commissioned piece of art, and nor was it something intended to work within a game. It was simply a piece of fan art, which he made out of love for the character.

 

Clearly Ronzo thought that original portrait was good enough to call it the coolest guybrush he's ever seen, and while we're free to disagree (I think it's fine, but the portrait doesn't blow me away like it did Ron), there's no denying he's something of an authority on the subject of Guybrush.

 

But yeah, anyway I guess what I want to say is that I think it's a bit unfair to compare the merit of the two images, similar in many ways though they are, and then attribute the differences in the second one to experience and artistic growth. They were both made for very different purposes, and I think that's the best explanation for why they hit different.

 

(e.g. I suspect the reason that the portrait 'doesn't look like it could show a lot of different emotions' is that it doesn't need to, it's a static portrait, not because Rex figured out how to draw  expressive-looking faces with 10 more years of art experience)

Edited July 28, 2022 by KestrelPi

[Garystu]

13 minutes ago, KestrelPi said:

 

I'd suggest that possibly this is less about experience and more about function. Rex was already a pretty experienced artist a decade ago, and around that time he was artistically leading projects like Tearaway and was already winning awards for his work. Of course, artists of all kinds are always developing and growing, but I'm still somewhat sceptical of an idea that he looked back on that old piece of art and decided to fix what he saw as issues.

 

trimming the quoted post to save space because its the post above me

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

I did say the difference came from both experience, and working in a professional capacity. Its not just artistic improvements, its that the new design is official work and not fanart. The design has to do different things, its is for a different purpose.

 

Rexbox is extremely talented, even in his projects from over a decade ago. LittleBigPlanet is a gorgeous game. Tearaway is stunning. I would agree. I still think there's clear artistic growth throughout his work, but that doesn't make the old stuff bad. I don't think he didn't know how to show emotion in the past.

 

I already acknowledged that it was fine for the face of the old fanart to not be capable of showing many emotions. I called it "fine for a one-off artwork".

 

I would think some looking back and reimagining the old piece was involved. Its a fair guess that the piece landed him this job, to a degree. It feels like the fanart would have been discussed. But I also can't speculate about if that actually happened or not, what was going on in anyone's head, or what exactly happened behind the scenes there. It just seems like a likely scenario to me.

 

I also don't think it was a linier "my old work sucked and I must fix it lol" design process or something (i dont think anything like this was thought or said, simplified for example purposes, yadda yadda).

 

The old portrait would have shortcomings if used as the final design in a new MI game. Obviously. And as I outlined. But its a fine piece of fanart.

 

And the new, official design is so good it's so good. Its such a huge improvement.

[Toymafia88]

1 hour ago, KestrelPi said:

 

I'd suggest that possibly this is less about experience and more about function. Rex was already a pretty experienced artist a decade ago, and around that time he was artistically leading projects like Tearaway and was already winning awards for his work. Of course, artists of all kinds are always developing and growing, but I'm still somewhat sceptical of an idea that he looked back on that old piece of art and decided to fix what he saw as issues.

 

He clearly made the new version with reference to it, that much is obvious when you compare the colours and the hair shape and so on. But context is important. The portrait as you point out wasn't a commissioned piece of art, and nor was it something intended to work within a game. It was simply a piece of fan art, which he made out of love for the character.

 

Clearly Ronzo thought that original portrait was good enough to call it the coolest guybrush he's ever seen, and while we're free to disagree (I think it's fine, but the portrait doesn't blow me away like it did Ron), there's no denying he's something of an authority on the subject of Guybrush.

 

But yeah, anyway I guess what I want to say is that I think it's a bit unfair to compare the merit of the two images, similar in many ways though they are, and then attribute the differences in the second one to experience and artistic growth. They were both made for very different purposes, and I think that's the best explanation for why they hit different.

 

(e.g. I suspect the reason that the portrait 'doesn't look like it could show a lot of different emotions' is that it doesn't need to, it's a static portrait, not because Rex figured out how to draw  expressive-looking faces with 10 more years of art experience)

I also think i remember Rex referring to it as a sketch. 

 

I'm an artist and my sketches can be night and day compared to the final drawing. I often might rework stuff in the final.

 

I imagine Ron also gave feedback on things to change or tweak (make Guybrush look older etc)

 

But yeah if i drew something 10 years ago, I would definitley rework it as I'm not the same person or artist i was 10 years ago.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Toymafia88

[OzzieMonkey]

On 7/27/2022 at 8:30 AM, ThunderPeel2001 said:

NEWS! More news coming... soon!

 

 

I don't think it's a coincedence that next Monkey Island Monday is the 1st of August. Release date please! 

[Toymafia88]

3 hours ago, OzzieMonkey said:

I don't think it's a coincedence that next Monkey Island Monday is the 1st of August. Release date please! 

I'm feeling confident that we will get a release date next month for either a late August or September release.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Toymafia88

[KestrelPi]

6 hours ago, Guybrush Transmasc said:

 

Yeah, I agree.

 

I did say the difference came from both experience, and working in a professional capacity. Its not just artistic improvements, its that the new design is official work and not fanart. The design has to do different things, its is for a different purpose.

 

Rexbox is extremely talented, even in his projects from over a decade ago. LittleBigPlanet is a gorgeous game. Tearaway is stunning. I would agree. I still think there's clear artistic growth throughout his work, but that doesn't make the old stuff bad. I don't think he didn't know how to show emotion in the past.

 

I already acknowledged that it was fine for the face of the old fanart to not be capable of showing many emotions. I called it "fine for a one-off artwork".

 

I would think some looking back and reimagining the old piece was involved. Its a fair guess that the piece landed him this job, to a degree. It feels like the fanart would have been discussed. But I also can't speculate about if that actually happened or not, what was going on in anyone's head, or what exactly happened behind the scenes there. It just seems like a likely scenario to me.

 

I also don't think it was a linier "my old work sucked and I must fix it lol" design process or something (i dont think anything like this was thought or said, simplified for example purposes, yadda yadda).

 

The old portrait would have shortcomings if used as the final design in a new MI game. Obviously. And as I outlined. But its a fine piece of fanart.

 

And the new, official design is so good it's so good. Its such a huge improvement.

I really like this take on the previous design too. I imagine it went through a fair amount of iteration. I wonder if at first Rex tried doing something else with the front of the hair but Ron said he wanted it just like that old piece, heh.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to come off as hostile to your point, though.

 

I suppose another reason for differences is the apparently older Guybrush we have for the game - and possibly some aspects of the plot we're not yet aware of so. I feel like this guybrush is both physically and mentally in a different place to the one of previous games.

[Toymafia88]

With the new gameplay I thought I'd check the Adventure Gamers forums to see if peoples opinions might soften on the art style. 

 

That was a mistake 😔

 

Every comment i read felt like it was going out of its way to be negative and on the hunt to find something to  complain about.

 

I understand people have different opinions but it just saddens me as i feel like people are determined to hate it.

 

A new Monkey Island should be a celebration, its a rare treat. I feel like people are doing themselves a diservice.

Edited July 28, 2022 by Toymafia88

[Vainamoinen]

20 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

Every comment i read felt like it was going out of its way to be negative and on the hunt to find something to  complain about.

 

And adventuregamers was the first website to get an exclusive interview ten days after the announcement.

 

This shit must break Emily's heart.

 

Anyway ... I couldn't resist and left those folks a note.

[Thrik]

Ahh, the AdventureGamers Return to Monkey Island thread.

 

It reminds me of what Stephen Fry once said: "Sometimes there just isn't enough vomit in the world.”

[Ramen]

This reminds me of when Tenet came out.

I'm a huge fan of Christopher Nolan movies (The Prestige, The Dark Knight, Inception and Interstellar are some of my all time favourites), so when I first heard about Tenet, I was ecstatic. I waited in painful anticipation, and since it came out in theatres during the pandemic, and he hadn't made anything like those movies since 2014, I was overjoyed.

I remember the feeling I had after coming out of the theatre (after 3(!) hours). I felt confused and cheated, like someone had tricked me, at the same time. At first I thought that maybe it was just so great and complex that I didn't get it. But as days passed, and I discussed it with other people I knew that had seen it, I realised that my initial reaction was correct. It was just bad.

Maybe he lost it, maybe he grew too old, like many people do. I don't know. But I think the people in other forums are just voicing their truthful opinion, where they won't be attacked for it. I can't see why anyone would go out of their way to find something negative to criticise, because at the end of the day, I think those people have also been waiting for years to experience something as great as their earlier experiences again, too.

It also reminds me of a Stephen Fry quote;

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

[I saw hate in a graveyard -- Stephen Fry, The Guardian, 5 June 2005]”

Edited July 28, 2022 by Ramen

[KestrelPi]

46 minutes ago, Toymafia88 said:

With the new gameplay I thought I'd check the Adventure Gamers forums to see if peoples opinions might soften on the art style. 

 

That was a mistake 😔

 

Every comment i read felt like it was going out of its way to be negative and on the hunt to find something to  complain about.

 

I understand people have different opinions but it just saddens me as i feel like people are determined to hate it.

 

A new Monkey Island should be a celebration, its a rare treat. I feel like people are doing themselves a diservice.

 

Yeah, there really is a sense of some people creating for themselves a personal hell where they're being offered something that seemed vanishingly unlikely 6 months ago, but can't see past their own preconceptions and expectations to enjoy the moment, even cautiously.

 

I mean even I approached the announcement with caution - not because of the art style, but because I haven't always felt excited by how Ron has talked about his wishes for a sequel in the past. But am I willing to put those doubts aside to be excited we're getting it at all? Obviously!

 

I want to shake people and tell them 'look, maybe you'll end up liking it, maybe not, but let your preconceptions of what it should be go and just try to enjoy the ride, you'll be happier' but I don't feel like it'll get through.

 

BUT, that said, that forum, just like this forum, isn't the whole story. I've seen so many twitter comments from people saying they're coming around on the art, and Ron himself has said that people who tested the game found the style shocking at first but tended to really like it by the end. We know some regulars here initially cool on the art are warming to the style, too. Even I who was fine with the art style from the start, find myself more impressed with it the more we see.

 

I am a bit sad to hear about Adventure Gamers forum, I'd have hoped to have seen a bit more excitement over there, but what can you do.

 

 

 

 

[Udvarnoky]

6 minutes ago, Ramen said:

But I think the people in other forums are just voicing their truthful opinion, where they won't be attacked for it.

 

I dunno, they seem to find themselves "attacked" wherever they make port.

 

The oppression must just be that targeted.

[Thrik]

6 minutes ago, Ramen said:

It also reminds me of a Stephen Fry quote;

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

[I saw hate in a graveyard -- Stephen Fry, The Guardian, 5 June 2005]”

Jawa, is that you?!

[BaronGrackle]

1 hour ago, Toymafia88 said:

Every comment i read felt like it was going out of its way to be negative and on the hunt to find something to  complain about.

 

I understand people have different opinions but it just saddens me as i feel like people are determined to hate it.

I'm studying this in my own brain at the moment. I feel like it is a "hunt for sour grapes".

 

For some of us, there's an inner battle over whether we want to experience this game. It would be easy if we loved everything or hated everything, but it is hard because we love so much of some things while hating so much of other things.

 

For a hater like this, at some point the fox realizes he can't get the grapes. That sucks. It would be a lot easier if he thought the grapes were sour. Thus, you might get a situation of "the hunt to find something to complain about". The hunt for sour grapes.

 

That being said, I can't speak for other people. Maybe I'm just wrong, and their minds are somewhere else completely.

 

EDIT: One version of a personal hell is to have such strong contradictory feelings about a silly video game eat at you for a prolonged time. If you can resolve those contradictory feelings one way or the other, then the personal hell should disappear.

Edited July 28, 2022 by BaronGrackle

[Ramen]

6 minutes ago, Udvarnoky said:

 

I dunno, they seem to find themselves "attacked" wherever they make port.

 

The oppression must just be that targeted.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure i understand what you mean?

 

5 minutes ago, Thrik said:

Jawa, is that you?!

??

[MurraySchull]

Devolver will be bringing a collection of games to Pax West from 3rd - 6th September. Pretty much guaranteed they’ll bring ReMI and we’ll see more promo/gameplay in action.